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Replicating Objects: A Plausible Excuse?

Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
06-16-2006 10:37
I am trying to understand something that happened on my property yesterday, will someone please explain what you think really happened?

Last night I logged in to my home sim and immediately noticed a problem- I was virtually unable to move. Lag is quite uncommon in my sim so I checked the statistics bar and found that my sim was running at 3 FPS instead of the normal 45. I panned my camera over toward my store and noticed what appeared to be dozens of brightly-colored orbs inside. I don't sell brightly-colored orbs of any kind, so I immediately knew something was up.

After about 3 minutes of trodding through molasses, I got close enough that I could check the About Land menu for my property. Some player I'd never heard of, and whom I won't name here, had 1091 objects on my 1024sq/m plot! After inching still closer, I was able to check the properties of one of the objects. It was a physics-enabled beach ball, originally created by a Linden. I took a couple of screenshots showing the land and object properties, although I wasn't able to get close enough to really see the beach balls. (Alt-zoom wasn't working due to the lag.)

So, I return the objects, file an abuse report, and IM the player, asking why he left 1091 objects on my land. (Actually by that time it was up to 1098.) He was offline, but I got a response from him this morning via offline IMs, and this is what I don't understand:

From: someone
no what happeend was i was playing around with making self replicating beach balls and someone was wearing a shield that launches items with physics enabled so when they came near my balls they all got launched i could only find them in a few sims but not all, i let the lindens know of them and thought i had em all but obviously i did not


The only beach balls I saw were on my land, not any of the surrounding property, some of which is Linden-owned. I haven't checked the neighboring plots' auto-return settings (and don't know if I can do that with other peoples' land). The great majority of the beach balls were well inside my store, although some were on the roof.

So my questions: Is there a precedent for this kind of thing (shield bounces objects across sims)? Should I believe this guy? What was he doing 'experimenting' with self-replicating balls in the first place?

P.S. I had auto-return disabled on my land because my first merchant had trouble getting her items to stay on the land. We now know you have to have the property group activated when rezzing in order to bypass auto-return. I have enabled auto-return on that land, and notified some (welcome) squatters on another of my parcels that they'll have to set their objects to group soon before I enable it there too.
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
06-16-2006 10:47
Yes, that is plausible - it certainly could have happened, though that's not to say it *did* happen like that. Self-replicating physical objects are great sim / grid attack tools. Caledon has been attacked by replicating beachballs. But shields do sometimes throw physical objects in unexpected directions.

If it was me I'd say "hmm, okay" but if it happened again, or to other people, I'd think that twice was much too much of a coincidence.
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
06-16-2006 10:49
From: Wildefire Walcott
I am trying to understand something that happened on my property yesterday, will someone please explain what you think really happened?

Last night I logged in to my home sim and immediately noticed a problem- I was virtually unable to move. Lag is quite uncommon in my sim so I checked the statistics bar and found that my sim was running at 3 FPS instead of the normal 45. I panned my camera over toward my store and noticed what appeared to be dozens of brightly-colored orbs inside. I don't sell brightly-colored orbs of any kind, so I immediately knew something was up.

After about 3 minutes of trodding through molasses, I got close enough that I could check the About Land menu for my property. Some player I'd never heard of, and whom I won't name here, had 1091 objects on my 1024sq/m plot! After inching still closer, I was able to check the properties of one of the objects. It was a physics-enabled beach ball, originally created by a Linden. I took a couple of screenshots showing the land and object properties, although I wasn't able to get close enough to really see the beach balls. (Alt-zoom wasn't working due to the lag.)

So, I return the objects, file an abuse report, and IM the player, asking why he left 1091 objects on my land. (Actually by that time it was up to 1098.) He was offline, but I got a response from him this morning via offline IMs, and this is what I don't understand:



The only beach balls I saw were on my land, not any of the surrounding property, some of which is Linden-owned. I haven't checked the neighboring plots' auto-return settings (and don't know if I can do that with other peoples' land). The great majority of the beach balls were well inside my store, although some were on the roof.

So my questions: Is there a precedent for this kind of thing (shield bounces objects across sims)? Should I believe this guy? What was he doing 'experimenting' with self-replicating balls in the first place?

P.S. I had auto-return disabled on my land because my first merchant had trouble getting her items to stay on the land. We now know you have to have the property group activated when rezzing in order to bypass auto-return. I have enabled auto-return on that land, and notified some (welcome) squatters on another of my parcels that they'll have to set their objects to group soon before I enable it there too.


I doubt if any of them wer emine but if they were I apologize. I had a stack of physics enabled beach balls sometime back and some asshat flying by shot me and them as I was readying a picture.

On a side note, I've been looking into self replication for a tribble follower - but I won't release it or test it in mass public until I have a script running that keeps them form replicating if more than 5 or so are already out under the same owner.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
06-16-2006 10:59
The only reason I can see for having self replicating objects in SL is to grief. I would have ARd the punk.
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
06-16-2006 10:59
From: Jonas Pierterson
I doubt if any of them wer emine but if they were I apologize. I had a stack of physics enabled beach balls sometime back and some asshat flying by shot me and them as I was readying a picture.

Hehe, it wasn't you. The owner has posted here several times, but is not a regular on the forums.
_____________________
Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service!
http://desperationisle.blogspot.com/

New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL!
http://desperationisle.com/

Desperation Isle Productions: Skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes!
Sera Rawley
Registered User
Join date: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 9
06-16-2006 11:20
From: Devlin Gallant
The only reason I can see for having self replicating objects in SL is to grief. I would have ARd the punk.


While beach balls are hardly the same thing, that is definately not true. I'm sure there are lots of legitimate uses for self replication I know the ALife project in Terminus I'm involved with is one of them.
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
06-16-2006 11:23
From: Sera Rawley
While beach balls are hardly the same thing, that is definately not true. I'm sure there are lots of legitimate uses for self replication I know the ALife project in Terminus I'm involved with is one of them.


Svarga is a good one.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
06-16-2006 11:24
From: Devlin Gallant
The only reason I can see for having self replicating objects in SL is to grief. I would have ARd the punk.


If you want to script a new method by which my animals can breed, I'd love to outsource that work, believe me.
Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
06-16-2006 11:28
Okay, I agree simulated life is a good reason, but beachballs?
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
06-16-2006 11:32
From: Luciftias Neurocam
If you want to script a new method by which my animals can breed, I'd love to outsource that work, believe me.

llRezStork
Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
06-16-2006 11:42
From: Ordinal Malaprop
llRezStork


Very Laggy.
And storks are foul tempered.
Seronis Zagato
Verified Resident
Join date: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 454
06-16-2006 12:15
From: Luciftias Neurocam
If you want to script a new method by which my animals can breed, I'd love to outsource that work, believe me.


Yes, all of your children objects dont self duplicate. what the DO is contact a central server you hav set out that contains a copy of the creature inside. That server when it recieves a channel message from one of your creatures will llGiveInventory the 'parent' cow its child. As long as you only hand out these children by specially formatted channel messages that means if a 'pet' wanders too far away it wont be able to activate the server.

AND IF YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE

And dont put any tricks into your server to get around sleep limitations it will only be able to perform SO fast so should not be capable of getting out of hand.

For that manner ANY PERSON experimenting with replicating things need to have those replicating objects send their key to a central server anyways so that the server is capable of emailing back a self destruct command at any time.
Sera Rawley
Registered User
Join date: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 9
06-16-2006 12:32
@Devon My point wasn't to defend beachballs I have no context for comment on those. My point was to defend self replication as not simply a griefing tool.

@Seronis I would not use your method as it introduces ALOT of extra script time to the system. We need all the script time we can get for intelligence and simulation. Control can be managed by making sure objects die if they leave the sim and if something overruns the sim faster than a script update can contain it there is always mass deletions/return all.
Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
06-16-2006 12:40
From: Seronis Zagato


For that manner ANY PERSON experimenting with replicating things need to have those replicating objects send their key to a central server anyways so that the server is capable of emailing back a self destruct command at any time.


They should also go to sandbox island to do it, just so this sort of thing can't happen. Since it's an island there is no way for them to get away. Worst case scenario is that you “only” crash the sandbox.

I've experimented with self replication, but did so with several safeties in place. Even then I had a few problems with it starting to get out of hand, but the safeties worked well enough that I could keep control.

Basically it's called being responsible and thinking about what could go wrong before you start the experiments. Anyone who experiments with self replication on the main continent is foolish.
Wrom Morrison
Validated User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 462
06-16-2006 12:43
Set your land to auto-return items after X mins (15 should be good if you have a store there).

Make sure anything you set is set to whatever group you use with your land. Land need not be group land for this to work.
Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
06-16-2006 12:43
From: Jonas Pierterson
I doubt if any of them wer emine but if they were I apologize. I had a stack of physics enabled beach balls sometime back and some asshat flying by shot me and them as I was readying a picture.

On a side note, I've been looking into self replication for a tribble follower - but I won't release it or test it in mass public until I have a script running that keeps them form replicating if more than 5 or so are already out under the same owner.


There is no good reason to have ANYTHING THAT SELF-REPLICATES in SL. NONE. Only a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass would even think such a thing was halfway cute, or useful, or even interesting.
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-16-2006 12:46
From: Merlyn Bailly
There is no good reason to have ANYTHING THAT SELF-REPLICATES in SL. NONE. Only a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass would even think such a thing was halfway cute, or useful, or even interesting.


I don't think any of that is accurate.
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
06-16-2006 12:47
From: Wrom Morrison
Set your land to auto-return items after X mins (15 should be good if you have a store there).

Make sure anything you set is set to whatever group you use with your land. Land need not be group land for this to work.



It won't matter what group you set the items too, auto return never returns the land owners objects regardless of what group they are set too. Anyone else would have to set them to the same group as the land is set too though.
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
06-16-2006 12:52
From: Fade Languish
I don't think any of that is accurate.

Neither do I.

Of course, that may be because I am a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass, without even knowing it.
Wrom Morrison
Validated User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 462
06-16-2006 12:55
From: Vares Solvang
It won't matter what group you set the items too, auto return never returns the land owners objects regardless of what group they are set too. Anyone else would have to set them to the same group as the land is set too though.


It's quite possible she has friends set things down these need to be in her group. As she has stores there etc. Thus these need to be set to to the land's group. Whatever her employees rez on land.

And yes, a owners stuff would not be returned by definition. :)
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-16-2006 12:59
From: Ordinal Malaprop
Neither do I.

Of course, that may be because I am a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass, without even knowing it.


Hmmm... could I be a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass? Would I know if I was?

I'm reasonably certain a tribble could be at least halfway cute. And if Svarga uses it, that's a really good reason, and definitely interesting.
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
06-16-2006 13:30
From: Seronis Zagato
Yes, all of your children objects dont self duplicate. what the DO is contact a central server you hav set out that contains a copy of the creature inside.


That isn't what my animals do. Is this a suggestion? If so, see below.

From: someone
That server when it recieves a channel message from one of your creatures will llGiveInventory the 'parent' cow its child. As long as you only hand out these children by specially formatted channel messages that means if a 'pet' wanders too far away it wont be able to activate the server.


I just kill it when it leaves our sim.

From: someone
AND IF YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE

And dont put any tricks into your server to get around sleep limitations it will only be able to perform SO fast so should not be capable of getting out of hand.

For that manner ANY PERSON experimenting with replicating things need to have those replicating objects send their key to a central server anyways so that the server is capable of emailing back a self destruct command at any time.


I'm not interested in having my animals run by a central server, though. Would hamstring my ability to have independent fitness computations done in each animal, and severely restrict evolution of the parameters I've set to float between generations. I don't know if a single server could keep track of all the different parameters assigned to each animal on our sim, memory constraints being what they are. But thank you for your suggestions.
Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
06-16-2006 13:31
From: Merlyn Bailly
There is no good reason to have ANYTHING THAT SELF-REPLICATES in SL. NONE. Only a seriously stupid, unthinking jackass would even think such a thing was halfway cute, or useful, or even interesting.


Welcome to Terminus. Enjoy your stay.
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
06-16-2006 13:41
From: Fade Languish
I don't think any of that is accurate.



None of it is. Unsurprising.
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
06-16-2006 17:23
From: Wildefire Walcott

So my questions: Is there a precedent for this kind of thing (shield bounces objects across sims)? Should I believe this guy? What was he doing 'experimenting' with self-replicating balls in the first place?


This is very plausible. It is also possible under heavy lag for physical objects to travel multiple sims distance at a time instantaniously with a push (I once had a physics experiment that blew up and spewing a couple thousand prims for a 10 sim radius, i built a scanner and searched all the sims deleting them as i found them but for a 3 week period i still got them returned).

He did the right thing contacting LL and alerting them to the potential dissaster.

An example of a system that uses self replication is XyObject.

Your responce was reasonable; asking in the forums was a good follow up too.
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