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So, since LL is cracking down on copyright violations...

Kujila Maltz
lol
Join date: 6 Aug 2005
Posts: 444
06-15-2006 07:15
I've been watching the police blotter, and they seem to be enforcing a lot more on copyright issues (People selling iPods, etc, etc). However, I know there's a lot of community based around things like Pokemon, Sonic the Hedgehog, video game characters, and various animes. I've seen entire plots of land devoted to buildings and areas for these topics, as well as various Sonic avatars. So, are all these people violating the DMCA? If so, would LL just blatantly destroy their buildings and take away their avatars?
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
06-15-2006 07:20
I don't see why SL would need to be more restrictive than RL "cosplay" conventions... On the other hand maybe they're all breaking copyright law too..
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-15-2006 07:23
From: Kujila Maltz
I've been watching the police blotter, and they seem to be enforcing a lot more on copyright issues (People selling iPods, etc, etc). However, I know there's a lot of community based around things like Pokemon, Sonic the Hedgehog, video game characters, and various animes. I've seen entire plots of land devoted to buildings and areas for these topics, as well as various Sonic avatars. So, are all these people violating the DMCA? If so, would LL just blatantly destroy their buildings and take away their avatars?



Sonic, Pokemon, etc. fits under the fan created content part of copyright. It's perfectly legal to draw pictures of and write stories with characters from TV shows, games, etc. Problem comes in when those people start making money off those characters though... Although this also depends on the country you're in. I think if you drew a Sonic comic here in US and tried to sell it, SEGA of America would have a problem with you. But if you did it in Japan (as is done frequently), no one would care.
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Jeremiah North
Pair of Ducks Solver
Join date: 5 May 2006
Posts: 198
06-15-2006 07:25
There are even stores/enterprises in game that have the exact same name as their real world counterparts, but with one letter changed. Fake example: Burger Kling restaurant. Some even use the same color schemes as real stores. Clearly they are trading somewhat on the brand built in the RL by the real company. Long term, I don't see how they can avoid copyright problems. They only avoid them now because said companies are doubtless unaware.
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
06-15-2006 07:27
As I understand it from repeated posts from Linden Lab and discussions at Town Hall meetings, Linden Lab responds to DMCA complaints, and they do not proactively go after them.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
06-15-2006 07:44
I know they've taken down Trademarked items in world since I've been here.

As far as I know it's been on an 'as it's found' basis not actively patrolling for them.


So the moral of the story:

If you make SL knock offs of RL trademarked items - theres always a risk that it could get 'kapoofified'...

So its not a really smart biz plan.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
06-15-2006 07:49
From: Yumi Murakami
I don't see why SL would need to be more restrictive than RL "cosplay" conventions... On the other hand maybe they're all breaking copyright law too..


Depends if its made for self use, nonprofit, or profit. The first is perfectly fine. The second only if covering costs of the making. (sell for upload costs only and it may pass muster), third is illegal.

A person making an alucard costume (or wearing one) for fan based reasons only is not violating law.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
06-15-2006 07:50
From: Jeremiah North
There are even stores/enterprises in game that have the exact same name as their real world counterparts, but with one letter changed. Fake example: Burger Kling restaurant. Some even use the same color schemes as real stores. Clearly they are trading somewhat on the brand built in the RL by the real company. Long term, I don't see how they can avoid copyright problems. They only avoid them now because said companies are doubtless unaware.


Actually, you can escape a lot of that by claiming to be a parody.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
06-15-2006 08:29
From: Jonas Pierterson
Depends if its made for self use, nonprofit, or profit. The first is perfectly fine. The second only if covering costs of the making. (sell for upload costs only and it may pass muster), third is illegal.

A person making an alucard costume (or wearing one) for fan based reasons only is not violating law.


It's not as simple as that though.. some people IRL will contact a company, ask them to make them an Alucard costume, and pay them for it. Is that illegal because the company made a profit? If the company doesn't make a profit, is it ok? Can the company not make a profit, but charge for time and effort? If so, how are the company prevented from rolling a profit into the labour charge on the balance sheet - is it compared to a yardstick somewhere?
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
06-15-2006 08:30
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Actually, you can escape a lot of that by claiming to be a parody.


And besides, "copy brands" do it all the time.
Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
06-15-2006 08:36
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Actually, you can escape a lot of that by claiming to be a parody.


Plus, in the case of "Burger Kling," they don't actually sell burgers... at least not real ones. Now, the guy that runs the "Playboi Mansion" and calls his girls "Playmates" may eventually run into a problem.

P2
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
06-15-2006 08:39
From: Phoenix Psaltery
Plus, in the case of "Burger Kling," they don't actually sell burgers... at least not real ones.


For some reason I keep reading that as "Burger Bling"
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
06-15-2006 08:42
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Actually, you can escape a lot of that by claiming to be a parody.

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Jeremiah North
Pair of Ducks Solver
Join date: 5 May 2006
Posts: 198
06-15-2006 09:01
From: Phoenix Psaltery
Plus, in the case of "Burger Kling," they don't actually sell burgers...


There's a Burger Kling?! Sorry, that was meant to be a fake example. But I think you're right, if you run a for-profit business that is trading on a real world name, it's probably not going to be around forever.
Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
06-15-2006 09:32
Japanese handle fan material differently from the US. In Japan there are a lot of fanfics and fancomics (some even adult oriented) of all kinds of anime/manga characters.

The creators don't mind because, there, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thing is, unlike a lot of creators in other parts of the world, the Japanese anime and manga original creators are so good at their craft that even if fans buy the fanstuff, they will still *want* the originals. With a market for the original work being so strong in Japan, fan-made material actually *boost* sales of the originals.

I'm not a real afficionado of anime or manga but having seen quite a number of simple to esoteric works I have to say that their creativity level is insanely high.

Contrast that with Star Wars (episodes 1-3) to which a multitude of fans are so pissed with the original and say they can do better (and probably can).
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
06-15-2006 09:36
From: Aodhan McDunnough

I'm not a real afficionado of anime or manga but having seen quite a number of simple to esoteric works I have to say that their creativity level is insanely high.

Contrast that with Star Wars (episodes 1-3) to which a multitude of fans are so pissed with the original and say they can do better (and probably can).


Well, the other nice thing is that doujin productions actually go ahead and do it better with original characters in that case. :)

I don't know where those then stand in terms of copyright, though. (I do know I'd certainly pay L$ for an Alice Margatroid avatar... and why am I now laughing out loud at SL's resemblance to the Osaka Simulator? :) )
Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
06-15-2006 11:24
From: Aodhan McDunnough
Japanese handle fan material differently from the US. In Japan there are a lot of fanfics and fancomics (some even adult oriented) of all kinds of anime/manga characters.

The creators don't mind because, there, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thing is, unlike a lot of creators in other parts of the world, the Japanese anime and manga original creators are so good at their craft that even if fans buy the fanstuff, they will still *want* the originals. With a market for the original work being so strong in Japan, fan-made material actually *boost* sales of the originals.


It's also due to Japan having stronger IP laws, believe it or not. I.E., you can lose a trademark in the US if you don't defend it; I don't believe this is so in Japan.
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
06-15-2006 11:33
From: Pol Tabla


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Frost White
Second Life Resident
Join date: 3 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
06-15-2006 14:09
From: Kujila Maltz
I've been watching the police blotter, and they seem to be enforcing a lot more on copyright issues (People selling iPods, etc, etc). However, I know there's a lot of community based around things like Pokemon, Sonic the Hedgehog, video game characters, and various animes. I've seen entire plots of land devoted to buildings and areas for these topics, as well as various Sonic avatars. So, are all these people violating the DMCA? If so, would LL just blatantly destroy their buildings and take away their avatars?


I'm one of the Sonic-type Avatar creators. It's basicly the only kind of avatars i know how to make. I consider my avatars fanart. If i'm told to change it, il just use leet speak for the avatar names... Nothing they can do if they only "look" like the real thing, or i would be banned for just being a mobian fox. :/
Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
06-15-2006 14:11
From: Aliasi Stonebender

Tastes just like Yoda Soda :)
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
06-15-2006 14:13
From: Frost White
I'm one of the Sonic-type Avatar creators. It's basicly the only kind of avatars i know how to make. I consider my avatars fanart. If i'm told to change it, il just use leet speak for the avatar names... Nothing they can do if they only "look" like the real thing, or i would be banned for just being a mobian fox. :/

Oh crap.. Please dont use leet speak. Rename them similer names like "Knucklehead" or "sonique". *snuggles the multi-tailed foxy*
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Frost White
Second Life Resident
Join date: 3 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
06-15-2006 14:14
Yip!
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
06-15-2006 15:33
From: Yumi Murakami
It's not as simple as that though.. some people IRL will contact a company, ask them to make them an Alucard costume, and pay them for it. Is that illegal because the company made a profit? If the company doesn't make a profit, is it ok? Can the company not make a profit, but charge for time and effort? If so, how are the company prevented from rolling a profit into the labour charge on the balance sheet - is it compared to a yardstick somewhere?


Don't know, never had the situation come up. One con (small one) I borrowed a freinds Alucard costume. Had a vamp in a larp (Malkavian) who was obsessed with the character from the game Symphony of the night. Had that been today It would be based off an obsession with Hellsings Alucard. :)

What I am sure of though, is use for fan absed purposes is protected.
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I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
06-15-2006 15:57
From: Aliasi Stonebender
It's also due to Japan having stronger IP laws, believe it or not. I.E., you can lose a trademark in the US if you don't defend it; I don't believe this is so in Japan.


That makes me even more amazed actually.

Anyway on topic itself, I'm a builder and it's really tempting to go into a business in SL making knock-offs.

I'll probably make some really gorgeous knockoffs, but I'm avoiding doing that completely because the last thing I want is to run afoul of IP violations.
Kujila Maltz
lol
Join date: 6 Aug 2005
Posts: 444
06-15-2006 20:12
For example, a while ago (several months ago) I bought a 2D-Sprite Black Mage avatar (FF1) and a 2D-Sprite Fighter avatar (FF1), as well as a Kirby avatar. Would this be breaking the rules?

I would hate to think that :(

@Frost White:

Do you sell any avatars?
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