Is there a market for magazines in SL?
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-19-2006 23:05
From: Enabran Templar Great, Martin. Jump down her throat and then add a little sexual harassment to the mix. So much for championing the woman's cause. Anyway, SinnedForYou, all you have to do is find a means to grab eyeballs. Once you've done that, selling the ads is pretty easy. To that end, you need to make it as easy as possible to read this magazine. I guess I'd recommend against charging per copy, as I think selling content to read inside SL isn't a very winning proposition. Metaverse Messenger does a pretty good job at making the paper easily accessible as a PDF file and I definitely endorse that means of distribution for easy consumption. As for the design, I understand you're taking some inspiration from Cosmopolitan and other magazines, but I don't read those and my comment is much, much more technical. The red you're using is highly saturated -- I'd guess from eyeballing it's a 100%, fully luminous red. That's kind of a bad idea for the background for something that's going to be displayed digitally. You see, on my LCD, the red quite literally hurts my eyes. The overlaid blue text, especially "Sex and the Second Lifer" is very, very difficult to read as the combination of blue and red makes my eyes feel like they're tracing over a moire pattern. I emphasize that there is literally discomfort in my eyes until I look away. I'm not sure what the science is behind that particular phenomenon, but I imagine for people viewing the image on a CRT, the issue is vastly worse (I often got painful moire from certain images back when I used a CRT) Finally, from eyeballing it, it looks like you're using something from the Arial family for the text. This is nitpicky, but Arial is a wildly ugly font, without even getting into the purism associated with Arial vs. Helvetica (basically, the former is a ripoff of the latter). For a cover like that, assuming you can tone down the background, Helvetica Neue Light might look very nice. Also try Futura, or even Myriad, if the Apple look is your thing. In general, though, avoid Microsoft's typographic abominations like the plague. There is much nicer stuff available out there. (And sorry if this is much more than you want to hear. I know I'm a whore for criticism, but not everyone else is.  ) I guess I'm out of my league.  I'll just pack up my bags and go home. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-19-2006 23:14
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I guess I'm out of my league.  I'll just pack up my bags and go home. Thanks for the help everyone. Not at all. I think SL needs more solid content spaces and if that's something you really want to do, you should definitely make it happen. If you feel there are elements of the project that seem a little beyond your grasp at the moment, I'd urge you to seek out collaborators. There are a great many talented and industrious folks here who could definitely help you out on the design side if you'd prefer not to focus on that side of things. This will let you focus on the content side of the equation, and it sounds like that's the part about which you are most excited. Don't be discouraged! You're sitting on some interesting ideas
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Alaska Metropolitan
Fashion Addict
Join date: 5 Jun 2005
Posts: 259
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Apparently I have a lot more free time than I thought I did...
01-20-2006 00:01
I just did this for fun, to see how challenging it would be to design such a cover in Second Life. It's harder than it looks, people! There's a lot of information to put there!
Sometimes people overlook the role of design in society. Sometimes just changing a font makes something feel more classy or upscale. I'd recommend you work with a designer and a SL photographer with some Photoshop skills, SinnedForYou. That will leave you with more time to concentrate on writing for the magazine anyway. (I don't have enough time for such a project, but I'm sure there's many other SL designers who would.)
Notes on my redesign: The entire type is one font family - Myraid Pro from Adobe. It comes free with the Adode CS series. The model is Webgoddess Mars, it's just a shot I had for one of my vendors on my hard drive so I used it. I don't have permission to post her, hope she doesn't get mad! I did this for fun (I can't stay connected to Second Life tonight anyway) and I don't give permission for this to show up anywhere else than in this forum thread.
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http://slurl.com/secondlife/Celerio/16/138// | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpha%20Centauri/215/8// | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Scoopwing/244/125/48/ | http://www.slboutique.com/Alaska_Metropolitan/ | http://alaskametro.blogspot.com/
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-20-2006 00:03
From: Alaska Metropolitan Notes on my redesign: The entire type is one font family - Myraid Pro from Adobe. It comes free with the Adode CS series. Wasn't sure how Myriad would look there, but you did a good job with it. Nice work!
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-20-2006 00:19
From: Alaska Metropolitan I just did this for fun, to see how challenging it would be to design such a cover in Second Life. It's harder than it looks, people! There's a lot of information to put there!
Sometimes people overlook the role of design in society. Sometimes just changing a font makes something feel more classy or upscale. I'd recommend you work with a designer and a SL photographer with some Photoshop skills, SinnedForYou. That will leave you with more time to concentrate on writing for the magazine anyway. (I don't have enough time for such a project, but I'm sure there's many other SL designers who would.)
Notes on my redesign: The entire type is one font family - Myraid Pro from Adobe. It comes free with the Adode CS series. The model is Webgoddess Mars, it's just a shot I had for one of my vendors on my hard drive so I used it. I don't have permission to post her, hope she doesn't get mad! I did this for fun (I can't stay connected to Second Life tonight anyway) and I don't give permission for this to show up anywhere else than in this forum thread. I've actually decided that it doesn't matter what people think. I have photoshop skills. I designed it to look almost exactly like an issue of Cosmopolitan. I will make what I want (alone) and at least one person will buy it. Many stars were turned away because they "didn't have what it took." Let's see your drive and dedication come into play. Thank you.  Also - Note that I never said it was a classy or upscale magazine. Would you call Cosmopolitan either of those things? I think not.
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Alaska Metropolitan
Fashion Addict
Join date: 5 Jun 2005
Posts: 259
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01-20-2006 00:35
I apologize if I stepped on your toes by offering to help with design advice. It's your magazine. I had fun just playing around with it though.  Seems like it will be a fun project for you to work on.
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http://slurl.com/secondlife/Celerio/16/138// | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpha%20Centauri/215/8// | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Scoopwing/244/125/48/ | http://www.slboutique.com/Alaska_Metropolitan/ | http://alaskametro.blogspot.com/
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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01-20-2006 00:51
From: Enabran Templar Great, Martin. Jump down her throat and then add a little sexual harassment to the mix. So much for championing the woman's cause. Anyway, SinnedForYou, all you have to do is find a means to grab eyeballs. Once you've done that, selling the ads is pretty easy. To that end, you need to make it as easy as possible to read this magazine. I guess I'd recommend against charging per copy, as I think selling content to read inside SL isn't a very winning proposition. Metaverse Messenger does a pretty good job at making the paper easily accessible as a PDF file and I definitely endorse that means of distribution for easy consumption. As for the design, I understand you're taking some inspiration from Cosmopolitan and other magazines, but I don't read those and my comment is much, much more technical. The red you're using is highly saturated -- I'd guess from eyeballing it's a 100%, fully luminous red. That's kind of a bad idea for the background for something that's going to be displayed digitally. You see, on my LCD, the red quite literally hurts my eyes. The overlaid blue text, especially "Sex and the Second Lifer" is very, very difficult to read as the combination of blue and red makes my eyes feel like they're tracing over a moire pattern. I emphasize that there is literally discomfort in my eyes until I look away. I'm not sure what the science is behind that particular phenomenon, but I imagine for people viewing the image on a CRT, the issue is vastly worse (I often got painful moire from certain images back when I used a CRT) Finally, from eyeballing it, it looks like you're using something from the Arial family for the text. This is nitpicky, but Arial is a wildly ugly font, without even getting into the purism associated with Arial vs. Helvetica (basically, the former is a ripoff of the latter). For a cover like that, assuming you can tone down the background, Helvetica Neue Light might look very nice. Also try Futura, or even Myriad, if the Apple look is your thing. In general, though, avoid Microsoft's typographic abominations like the plague. There is much nicer stuff available out there. (And sorry if this is much more than you want to hear. I know I'm a whore for criticism, but not everyone else is.  ) um apparently all your hate got in the way of you seeing that it was a joke. I guess the "roflmfao" wasn't a clue huh. Get off my back.
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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01-20-2006 00:55
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I've actually decided that it doesn't matter what people think. I have photoshop skills. I designed it to look almost exactly like an issue of Cosmopolitan. I will make what I want (alone) and at least one person will buy it. Many stars were turned away because they "didn't have what it took." Let's see your drive and dedication come into play. Thank you.  Also - Note that I never said it was a classy or upscale magazine. Would you call Cosmopolitan either of those things? I think not. That's right it doesn't matter what ppl think, do what makes you happy. Cat
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Spinner Poutine
Still rezzin or am I
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 583
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01-20-2006 01:44
I think it's a great idea, I'll subscribe and if you get bored with that I think a Places, Robin Leech kinda thing would be cool too. I'm always looking for new places to venture to but never know where to start. Find Places and evnts are all Tringo and porn, it would be nice to have other options that show cool things to do in world
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Can't we all just get along? Doughnuts,err Pie, for everyone 
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Jackal Ennui
does not compute.
Join date: 25 May 2005
Posts: 548
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01-20-2006 02:20
Yay! Finally a fashion magazine for SL  I've been waiting for something like that to come out. Great idea, SinnedForYou, I'm really looking forward to what you will make of it 
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Lassitude & Ennui - Fine prim jewelry & footwear, Nouveau(60,60)
http://lassitudeennui.blogspot.com/
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Zack Mortal
Flesh peddler
Join date: 9 Jan 2006
Posts: 57
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01-20-2006 05:51
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I guess I'm out of my league.  I'll just pack up my bags and go home. Thanks for the help everyone. You did ask for comments and criticism, and I think Enabran's remarks were very constructive. (Red on blue is never a good idea.) Alaska's cover was much easier to read. Anyway, I'd read it, particularly if copies were free. I agree with Spinner -- as a new resident, I'm heavy into exploring and the Find page is often less than useful. I'd also be interested in articles about SL culture and society generally.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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01-20-2006 06:01
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I've actually decided that it doesn't matter what people think. I have photoshop skills. I designed it to look almost exactly like an issue of Cosmopolitan. I will make what I want (alone) and at least one person will buy it. Many stars were turned away because they "didn't have what it took." Let's see your drive and dedication come into play. Thank you.  Also - Note that I never said it was a classy or upscale magazine. Would you call Cosmopolitan either of those things? I think not. oh you mean this thread wasn't a discussion, it was an infomercial?
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Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-20-2006 06:13
From: Zack Mortal You did ask for comments and criticism, and I think Enabran's remarks were very constructive. (Red on blue is never a good idea.) Alaska's cover was much easier to read. Meh. Like I said, I'm a whore for constructive criticism, but not everyone is comfortable receiving it or acting on it. I agree that Alaska's cover was more readable. It also seemed more magazine-y. As for the red-blue business, I'm glad to discover I don't have some weird eye disorder or something (I was genuinely worried about that briefly, last night  ) The science of the red and blue: http://ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/resource/tutor/stereo/chap3/chapter3_5_e.phpSome fun eye blasters: http://www.psy.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/scolor2e.html
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-20-2006 06:18
From: Jauani Wu oh you mean this thread wasn't a discussion, it was an infomercial? It's nothing. If I decide to do it, I'll release it. If I don't, I won't. I wasn't sure about doing it before and I'm still not. The diff is that I need to make the decision on my own instead of seeking the advice of the masses, who will each have their own unique opinion that is not my own!
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-20-2006 06:39
From: SinnedForYou Schnook The diff is that I need to make the decision on my own instead of seeking the advice of the masses, who will each have their own unique opinion that is not my own! Well, that's fair, but it's a little different than making choices about the appearance of your house or car. Given that "the masses" are your target audience, I think it's more than important that you understand their expectations, their likes and their dislikes. We do this all the time where I work, via surveys and focus groups. The results of these very instructive. You really need to understand your customer and it sounds like you've got more than a few potential readers in this thread. I am a little confused, though, if that's your stance, since you opened the thread welcoming comments and criticism. Which is it? 
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-20-2006 06:42
I asked for a little advice on the market, not a professional photoshop lesson on something the magazine was NOT intended to look like. The part that irritates me is that I stated it was designed to look like a very specific magazine. I can make whatever I want, however I want and someone will pay for it no matter what. I may have messed up with the blue on red, but the bold colors is how Cosmo designs it to be.
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-20-2006 06:51
From: Enabran Templar Well, that's fair, but it's a little different than making choices about the appearance of your house or car. Given that "the masses" are your target audience, I think it's more than important that you understand their expectations, their likes and their dislikes. We do this all the time where I work, via surveys and focus groups. The results of these very instructive. You really need to understand your customer and it sounds like you've got more than a few potential readers in this thread. I am a little confused, though, if that's your stance, since you opened the thread welcoming comments and criticism. Which is it?  The comments and criticism was not meant for the cover. It was meant for the idea of the magazine. Would you read those articles, etc etc. I think the content inside the cover is the most important thing.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-20-2006 06:52
From: SinnedForYou Schnook The part that irritates me is that I stated it was designed to look like a very specific magazine. I really don't know how to respond to that.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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SinnedForYou Schnook
Socialite
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 25
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01-20-2006 06:58
From: Enabran Templar I really don't know how to respond to that. Then don't. I'm done with this discussion. * That was not meant as sarcasm or anything. I just mean that I've moved on to different ideas.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-20-2006 07:00
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I think the content inside the cover is the most important thing. That's, er, patently false. A friend of mine writes for Macworld. They sell a whole lot more issues during months when they feature an Apple product on the cover. The cover is the selling point of the magazine. If it weren't, magazines would ship with blank white covers set in Times New Roman. I disagree that you weren't soliciting commentary on the cover. If you weren't interested in hearing it, I don't think you would have attached an image. You may not have expected the advice you got in this thread, but I think it was all very useful. I'd really urge you to reconsider your position on the criticism thing, though. One of my greatest mentors was always happy to tear my work to shreds -- this was video editing, print layout work, and some digital stuff I was doing -- and I am a much better hand artistically today because of his unflinching ability to tell me the truth. It was a little tough at first, but I got used to it and started to enjoy the process. It got to the point where I didn't do anything without running a draft by him so I could get an outsider's perspective of where my work was rough or lacking. Eventually, it got to the point where I didn't always take his advice, but when I didn't, I had good reasons. We're still good friends and I still like his take on really important work I'm doing. He did a lot more for me by his honesty than if he'd simply told me "Oh, it looks fine."
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Sansarya Caligari
BLEH!
Join date: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,206
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01-20-2006 07:31
Just go for it Sinned Put out an issue, and give the first issue for $1L in a vendor that counts how many are taken (I think you can even get a script that tells you who took the copies). If your first issue "sells" more than 100, keep doing it. I don't think $10L -$25L is unreasonable for a price for something that takes this much work. I think SLustler costs $150Ls? Maybe ask more people how much they would pay to keep getting the magazine after the first issue is out. Decide how many issues you can reasonably do and still have time to enjoy your first and second lives, then sell subscriptions and ads. Usually your money is in the advertising. You should question the amount of time it's going to take to put together each issue and then decide if that amount of work is worth it. It might help to have a graphic artist/PS wizard if you're going to be concentrating on writing, or vice versa--you can do the design/art and hire some writers. You may be able to work with the owners and staff of Metaverse Messenger and share or expand on some of their stories because newspapers are focused on quick, up to the minute short format articles while magazines are able to give a longer feature length article more space. It would be sort of exciting to see MM team up with Sinnful Magazine (but don't get me started on media conglomerates, yikes!!) Also, know your market audience. Probably the women you're marketing to keep their forum viewings limited to technical issues, design/textures, and new products. There are probably also many who don't read forums at all. Not belittling anyone here, but for many SLers, the forums are just not that interesting. Again, good luck 
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Wuvme Karuna
..:: Spicy Latina ::..
Join date: 6 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,669
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01-20-2006 11:31
From: someone I can make whatever I want, however I want and someone will pay for it no matter what. Everyone has their own opinions and they are trying to help you out, if you feel as if you did not need any opinions then why did you post it on the forums? They are trying to help your item look better, and i agree, it looks 3D and it makes my eyes hurt. Why settle for good... when excellent is an option? 
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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01-20-2006 22:30
From: SinnedForYou Schnook I asked for a little advice on the market, not a professional photoshop lesson on something the magazine was NOT intended to look like. The part that irritates me is that I stated it was designed to look like a very specific magazine. I can make whatever I want, however I want and someone will pay for it no matter what. I may have messed up with the blue on red, but the bold colors is how Cosmo designs it to be. notice how they are a lot more subdued backgrounds and the cover is not a fluffer chick?
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http://wu-had.blogspot.com/ read my blog
Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Lash Xevious
Gooberly
Join date: 8 May 2004
Posts: 1,348
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01-21-2006 01:41
I remember Graphica Magazine. It was the coolest thing I saw at the time. Flipping through pages, each page textured with the article on it. Very sad only one issue. Was waiting for more. Definitely go for it, but do take into consideration what has been said here. The packaging really has to be considered if the intent is to share with others. No matter how interesting the topics are, if we can't skim through them without any retinal discomfort, it's a pretty futile effort on both sides. 
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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01-29-2006 18:53
I don't find that SL is a good method for displaying something like a magazine in-world.
The resolution suffers, it's tough to get your camera aimed at something head on. Now textures are likely to display at first as gray loading textures, which kind of destroys the effect.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to
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