Second Life Forums Archive - Freebie resale continues

Joannah Cramer

Registered User

Join date: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,539

07-04-2006 11:23

From: Talarus Luan

People making a buck off of ignorance is nothing new. Technically, everyone who sells something is doing just that... they are profiting off the ignorance of the buyer because he doesn't know how (yet) to make the same item himself.

No, technically people selling 'something' are selling both the time needed to produce such item, and investment needed to allow the production.

It's only when both the investment, time and knowledge needed to obtain something approaches zero the people charging money for delivery of such item 'make buck off of ignorance' of person who wasn't aware they could've gotten that item with no hassle and immediately on their own.

Talarus Luan

Ancient Archaean Dragon

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 4,831

07-04-2006 11:33

From: Joannah Cramer

No, technically people selling 'something' are selling both the time needed to produce such item, and investment needed to allow the production.

It's only when both the investment, time and knowledge needed to obtain something approaches zero the people charging money for delivery of such item 'make buck off of ignorance' of person who wasn't aware they could've gotten that item with no hassle and immediately on their own.

I don't dispute that, but SOME part of the profit is based simply on ignorance on the buyer's part. There's no end of people gouging / capitalizing on some new fad because they "know" something that the buyer doesn't.

In SL, there's no "investment" in the manufacturing process, because it costs nothing to copy something. Also, display and advertisement is not free, and I wholly disagree that there is no hassle or time involved in finding a particular item of note as a freebie. About half the time I recommend to someone asking for some item or script in the Builder's or Scripter's groupchats, I inevitably get back some variation of "oh man, that will take forever; can't you just give it to / find it for me?". Sure, if you'll pay me for the time to drop what I am doing and go hunting up the item for you.

Iron Perth

Registered User

Join date: 9 Mar 2005

Posts: 802

07-04-2006 11:51

From: Lupus Delacroix

Your right. Let me put it in better terms.

I find the reselling of items designed to be given away to be somewhat distasteful, it lacks a certain degree of class. One has to wonder if a person selling work claimed as original for profit that was designed for non profit has any moral standard beyond that of making a quick buck.

By the way, you talk like an overbearing condescending prick.

If you think about your implicit hate speech there, you might realise that you got off rather lightly.

_____________________

http://ironperth.com - Games for SecondLife and more.

Infiniview Merit

The 100 Trillionth Cell

Join date: 27 Apr 2006

Posts: 845

Motive?

07-04-2006 15:46

From: Talarus Luan

People making a buck off of ignorance is nothing new. Technically, everyone who sells something is doing just that... they are profiting off the ignorance of the buyer because he doesn't know how (yet) to make the same item himself.

Personally, if I put a "Freebie" into the public domain, I really don't care what happens to it, because I can't. It's public domain now, and someone can take it and sell it for L$1000 if they want (if they can get it; I can't imagine anyone willing to pay L$1000 for a 10-line follower script in a basic pet, for example). I will endeavor to make sure that my freebies get out there as far and wide as possible, but I'm not going to worry about someone making a buck off of displaying them.

As for Yadni's, if anything, it proves to me a need for better organization and display of items. I have just about every freebie box he has there, and most of them are sitting in my inventory, unopened, because I just don't have the time to go digging through them. I have no doubts that I have already paid someone else for some of the items in those boxes because of this. Of course, I was never ignorant enough to pay L$1000 for a freebie, either, since I tend to be pretty scrupulous with my money (and most everything I want that is over L$1000 goes on my project list so I can make it myself at some point anyway). Still, for the freebies which I have paid L$1 to L$250, I don't feel like I have been scammed. *shrug*

As for the food bank / free clothing store analogy, most often, you have to have proof you are on some kind of welfare program before they will let you obtain free food / clothes. Salvation Army thift stores are an exception to that, but then they sell the items cheap because they are most often second-hand. If someone gets a bargain at a SA store, and can resell it in his store for a higher price, the SA doesn't care. In the vast majority of cases, their prices are not much below the item's market value, and reselling them at any profit would be difficult.

If someone posted a sign in front of a displayed freebie that said "This item available for free elsewhere, or you can buy it from me now for L$250 to save you the trouble of looking for it.", if it is something that was worth L$250 to me in terms of time to go looking for it, I would consider paying it. There's also nothing in the world that prevents it from being given away for free elsewhere, or even sold by its original creator, even after giving it away for free.

Every newbie I see, I give them Yadni's LM among other things. I think that the Welcome Areas also have things like PathFinder's Picks, which are a bunch of LMs and notecards, including Yadni's. Thus, I find it a difficult argument for anyone to be ignorant of freebies that are out there.

Again, this doesn't include items which are licensed as no resale, and I would support LL putting in a technological method to enforce keeping something free as part of a license. Public Domain items are just that, Public Domain. That means they can be given away, sold, deleted, stepped on, used for kindling, whatever. It is in no way unethical to resell a Public Domain item, or an item which has a license which does not reserve the right of resale (like the GPL, for example).

It appears that you have the ability to analyze this situation
well enough to make somewhat cogent sub-points about it.

However the question that springs to my mind is,"what is your
motive for arguing these points?".
If you do not care what happens to freebies you provide, or the people that buy other people's freebies, why go to the trouble of posting all this?
Is it argument for the sake of arguing?
Or are you trying to justify the actions of those who sell freebies? Or perhaps you are planning on selling freebies yourself?
SL is a community in a rule-based context that is evolving weekly. That being the case certain things are addressed over other at differing times, such as updated permissions.

I think that "caring or not caring" is the difference between a barbarian form of capitalism and one that has a spirit of community and positive customer service.

So which is it, or are you trying to convince us not to care also?

I am actually curious.

_____________________

http://slurl.com/secondlife/puea/126/10/60/

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

07-04-2006 18:05

From: Infiniview Merit

I think that "caring or not caring" is the difference between a barbarian form of capitalism and one that has a spirit of community and positive customer service.

Very nicely said.

_____________________

My other hobby:
www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight

MadamG Zagato

means business

Join date: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 1,402

07-04-2006 18:13

OMG Chip! You ate my baby!

_____________________

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

07-04-2006 18:19

From: MadamG Zagato

OMG Chip! You ate my baby!

and it was delicious!

(I should change that title one of these days, hehe)

_____________________

My other hobby:
www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight

Talarus Luan

Ancient Archaean Dragon

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 4,831

07-04-2006 20:29

From: Infiniview Merit

However the question that springs to my mind is,"what is your
motive for arguing these points?".

That's a fair question. I suppose it is an attempt to help delineate and specify, since I think we are all painting the situation with a VERY broad brush and, thus, over-generalizing it.

From: someone

If you do not care what happens to freebies you provide, or the people that buy other people's freebies, why go to the trouble of posting all this?

Perhaps it is an attempt to foster some more understanding and tolerance of the issue from all sides looking at it here.

From: someone

Or are you trying to justify the actions of those who sell freebies? Or perhaps you are planning on selling freebies yourself?

Speaking for others, well, I can't. I don't intend to justify anyone going against an explicit agreement and selling things they don't have the right to sell. I maintain that not all freebies are necessarily prohibitive of resale, especially ones given out under open licenses, like the GPL. In fact, it is quite desired for people to find creative ways to sell GPLed items, as it is an incentive for them to be spread far and wide as quickly as possible. Just like Linux itself. You can download the code and distros for free, or you can pay someone for them. Likewise, things declared as Public Domain, there is absolutely nothing unethical about selling them, because that is the essence of Public Domain. They belong to the public. You can sell them, give them away, whatever.

Speaking for myself, I have no plans to resell anything that I didn't make myself. I do occasionally toss out a freebie animvendor I got at Yadni's that sells freebie animations for L$1, but only because the vendor script that came with it doesn't work if the price is set at L$0. Outside of that, I only sell my own work, mainly because I don't have the space to sell anyone else's.

From: someone

So which is it, or are you trying to convince us not to care also?

I am actually curious.

I suppose I am merely pointing out that the situation isn't black and white, and doesn't cover all instances of what are generally termed as "Freebies".

Nepenthes Ixchel

Broadly Offended.

Join date: 6 Dec 2005

Posts: 696

07-04-2006 20:41

From: Rusholme Malone

How the fuck can a helicopter be "gay"? You talk like a schoolchild.

Maybe it's a homosexual chainsmoking anthropomorphic helicoptor that resells freebies. I just added the chainsmoking bit because it seemed appropriate for a unethical anthropomorphic helicoptor.

Fa nyak

>(O.o)<

Join date: 8 Oct 2004

Posts: 342

07-05-2006 00:11

i question how easy it'd be to make a "freebie" permission.

the way half of sl's vendors work, the person pays the vendor. and then the vendor gives them an item. the two actions aren't really linked to one another, and as far as the server knows, it's a box just giving out free items...some freebies are distributed in this manner anyways. and if you just say items marked as freebie can't be transferred by calls to the money event. i could just make sure you pay my vendor, then put the actual "give" in a touch or listen event after i ensure you paid by some means in the script. basically.... someone would no doubt make a vendor specifically tailored to bypassing this freebie measure.

Seagel Neville

Far East User

Join date: 2 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,476

07-05-2006 01:58

From: Talarus Luan

Speaking for myself, I have no plans to resell anything that I didn't make myself. I do occasionally toss out a freebie animvendor I got at Yadni's that sells freebie animations for L$1, but only because the vendor script that came with it doesn't work if the price is set at L$0. Outside of that, I only sell my own work, mainly because I don't have the space to sell anyone else's.

Is that true? I might have not tested it by setting the price at L$0. Sorry for that.

Back to the topic, what if the creator himself sells his same items at various prices on several places, which are surly included L$0?
Personally, I hope that is the buyer's problem, not the seller's.

_____________________

Seagel Neville

Fade Languish

I just build stuff...

Join date: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 1,760

07-05-2006 02:54

From: Sarg Bjornson

Fade, considering that almost anything this person does or says is highly unethical, does it surprise you? It is one of the few persons here in SL that I would straight refuse to talk to.

No Sarg, I'm not at all surprised. That's why I didn't expand, I was stating the obvious already.

_____________________

Androclese Torgeson

I've got nothin'

Join date: 11 May 2004

Posts: 144

07-05-2006 04:43

From: Loki Tuque

Perhaps we need to suggest to the powers that be that they separate 'transferable' and 'sellable' into seperate settings so that we can create freebie items that can be given away for free but cannot be sold for any value other than $0? Not sure how this would effect being put in a box that is then sold for a greater amount, tho, hmmm.

Char

That flag could have an inheritence property attached to it. Like with the GNU License, if you use it in a program, the entire program becomes GNU ( overly simplistic way of looking at it, please don't jump all over me for it) anything that a "no resale" item is associated with inherits that flag and becomes "no resale" itself.

_____________________

Androclese Torgeson

Real Life, also known as "that big room with the ceiling that is sometimes blue and sometimes black with little lights"

Nyx Divine

never say never!

Join date: 11 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,052

Ready to give up

07-05-2006 08:34

Whenever I get bored I will stop by a yardsale and check things out....looking for freebies being sold.

I have never ever YET found a yardsale that does NOT sell freebies and it's pathetic.

Pisses me off....this I think is my 'cause', but a lost one.

But I am pretty tired of IM'ing folks and saying...errr you are selling freebies are you aware of that?

Hell the Linden textures that are provided for us are a biggie....WTF?

*sigh*

_____________________

Yes Virginia there is an FIC!

If someone shows you who they are.....believe them!

Don't be afraid to go out on a limb, because that's where the fruit is!

Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

07-05-2006 08:58

From: Talarus Luan

I don't dispute that, but SOME part of the profit is based simply on ignorance on the buyer's part. There's no end of people gouging / capitalizing on some new fad because they "know" something that the buyer doesn't.

On the contrary, I could duplicate nearly every item I've bought in SL. (Save clothes and skins, and that's more due to lack of artistic ability than lack of technical ability.)

I don't because I'd prefer to buy someone else's work and free up my time to work on those projects I find personally interesting.

_____________________

Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

07-05-2006 10:34

As Fa Nyak pointed out, and as I've noted many times before here in the forums, separating Transfer from a hypothetical Sell permission wouldn't stop the "unethical" from re-selling items they received for free. There are just too many ways to get around such a restriction. Your average player probably wouldn't look for them, but it's not the average players that are setting up stores with loads of previously-free items for sale.

The problem (for those that have a problem with it) is twofold. First, you have a few people that are willing to sell other people's creations to make a quick buck, and they either don't care or don't know that those creations were meant to be free to the public.

Secondly, you have people, often new to Second Life, that just don't know that the same object could be had for free elsewhere.

The first participant, the unscrupulous seller, is hard to stop. As long as it's possible to make multiple copies of something and give those copies to others, such people will find a way to get money for doing so.

The other participants are many and constantly renewing. Education and information is all that is needed to keep them from being scammed, but... Well, some people just don't want to listen. And there really isn't anyone or anything out there telling them.

Here's what I've done in the past... I've put a script into my freebies that will notify a new owner that the object is supposed to be free, and if they paid for it they should report the seller to the original creator. True, this is closing the barn door after the cows have gone, but at least they now know their beef has hoofed it, and they might be a bit more careful in the future. Unfortunately, this won't work in moddable objects since anyone can remove the script. (Though you can work the code into other scripts in the object, like a car's engine code, so that removing it will break functionality.)

If anyone is interested, I can provide this script. I'm sure I have it somewhere...

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Freebie resale continues
Joannah Cramer Registered User Join date: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,539	07-04-2006 11:23 From: Talarus Luan People making a buck off of ignorance is nothing new. Technically, everyone who sells something is doing just that... they are profiting off the ignorance of the buyer because he doesn't know how (yet) to make the same item himself. No, technically people selling 'something' are selling both the time needed to produce such item, and investment needed to allow the production. It's only when both the investment, time and knowledge needed to obtain something approaches zero the people charging money for delivery of such item 'make buck off of ignorance' of person who wasn't aware they could've gotten that item with no hassle and immediately on their own.
Talarus Luan Ancient Archaean Dragon Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 4,831	07-04-2006 11:33 From: Joannah Cramer No, technically people selling 'something' are selling both the time needed to produce such item, and investment needed to allow the production. It's only when both the investment, time and knowledge needed to obtain something approaches zero the people charging money for delivery of such item 'make buck off of ignorance' of person who wasn't aware they could've gotten that item with no hassle and immediately on their own. I don't dispute that, but SOME part of the profit is based simply on ignorance on the buyer's part. There's no end of people gouging / capitalizing on some new fad because they "know" something that the buyer doesn't. In SL, there's no "investment" in the manufacturing process, because it costs nothing to copy something. Also, display and advertisement is not free, and I wholly disagree that there is no hassle or time involved in finding a particular item of note as a freebie. About half the time I recommend to someone asking for some item or script in the Builder's or Scripter's groupchats, I inevitably get back some variation of "oh man, that will take forever; can't you just give it to / find it for me?". Sure, if you'll pay me for the time to drop what I am doing and go hunting up the item for you.
Iron Perth Registered User Join date: 9 Mar 2005 Posts: 802	07-04-2006 11:51 From: Lupus Delacroix Your right. Let me put it in better terms. I find the reselling of items designed to be given away to be somewhat distasteful, it lacks a certain degree of class. One has to wonder if a person selling work claimed as original for profit that was designed for non profit has any moral standard beyond that of making a quick buck. By the way, you talk like an overbearing condescending prick. If you think about your implicit hate speech there, you might realise that you got off rather lightly. _____________________ http://ironperth.com - Games for SecondLife and more.
Infiniview Merit The 100 Trillionth Cell Join date: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 845	Motive? 07-04-2006 15:46 From: Talarus Luan People making a buck off of ignorance is nothing new. Technically, everyone who sells something is doing just that... they are profiting off the ignorance of the buyer because he doesn't know how (yet) to make the same item himself. Personally, if I put a "Freebie" into the public domain, I really don't care what happens to it, because I can't. It's public domain now, and someone can take it and sell it for L$1000 if they want (if they can get it; I can't imagine anyone willing to pay L$1000 for a 10-line follower script in a basic pet, for example). I will endeavor to make sure that my freebies get out there as far and wide as possible, but I'm not going to worry about someone making a buck off of displaying them. As for Yadni's, if anything, it proves to me a need for better organization and display of items. I have just about every freebie box he has there, and most of them are sitting in my inventory, unopened, because I just don't have the time to go digging through them. I have no doubts that I have already paid someone else for some of the items in those boxes because of this. Of course, I was never ignorant enough to pay L$1000 for a freebie, either, since I tend to be pretty scrupulous with my money (and most everything I want that is over L$1000 goes on my project list so I can make it myself at some point anyway). Still, for the freebies which I have paid L$1 to L$250, I don't feel like I have been scammed. shrug As for the food bank / free clothing store analogy, most often, you have to have proof you are on some kind of welfare program before they will let you obtain free food / clothes. Salvation Army thift stores are an exception to that, but then they sell the items cheap because they are most often second-hand. If someone gets a bargain at a SA store, and can resell it in his store for a higher price, the SA doesn't care. In the vast majority of cases, their prices are not much below the item's market value, and reselling them at any profit would be difficult. If someone posted a sign in front of a displayed freebie that said "This item available for free elsewhere, or you can buy it from me now for L$250 to save you the trouble of looking for it.", if it is something that was worth L$250 to me in terms of time to go looking for it, I would consider paying it. There's also nothing in the world that prevents it from being given away for free elsewhere, or even sold by its original creator, even after giving it away for free. Every newbie I see, I give them Yadni's LM among other things. I think that the Welcome Areas also have things like PathFinder's Picks, which are a bunch of LMs and notecards, including Yadni's. Thus, I find it a difficult argument for anyone to be ignorant of freebies that are out there. Again, this doesn't include items which are licensed as no resale, and I would support LL putting in a technological method to enforce keeping something free as part of a license. Public Domain items are just that, Public Domain. That means they can be given away, sold, deleted, stepped on, used for kindling, whatever. It is in no way unethical to resell a Public Domain item, or an item which has a license which does not reserve the right of resale (like the GPL, for example). It appears that you have the ability to analyze this situation well enough to make somewhat cogent sub-points about it. However the question that springs to my mind is,"what is your motive for arguing these points?". If you do not care what happens to freebies you provide, or the people that buy other people's freebies, why go to the trouble of posting all this? Is it argument for the sake of arguing? Or are you trying to justify the actions of those who sell freebies? Or perhaps you are planning on selling freebies yourself? SL is a community in a rule-based context that is evolving weekly. That being the case certain things are addressed over other at differing times, such as updated permissions. I think that "caring or not caring" is the difference between a barbarian form of capitalism and one that has a spirit of community and positive customer service. So which is it, or are you trying to convince us not to care also? I am actually curious. _____________________ http://slurl.com/secondlife/puea/126/10/60/
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	07-04-2006 18:05 From: Infiniview Merit I think that "caring or not caring" is the difference between a barbarian form of capitalism and one that has a spirit of community and positive customer service. Very nicely said. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
MadamG Zagato means business Join date: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 1,402	07-04-2006 18:13 OMG Chip! You ate my baby! _____________________
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	07-04-2006 18:19 From: MadamG Zagato OMG Chip! You ate my baby! and it was delicious! (I should change that title one of these days, hehe) _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
Talarus Luan Ancient Archaean Dragon Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 4,831	07-04-2006 20:29 From: Infiniview Merit However the question that springs to my mind is,"what is your motive for arguing these points?". That's a fair question. I suppose it is an attempt to help delineate and specify, since I think we are all painting the situation with a VERY broad brush and, thus, over-generalizing it. From: someone If you do not care what happens to freebies you provide, or the people that buy other people's freebies, why go to the trouble of posting all this? Perhaps it is an attempt to foster some more understanding and tolerance of the issue from all sides looking at it here. From: someone Or are you trying to justify the actions of those who sell freebies? Or perhaps you are planning on selling freebies yourself? Speaking for others, well, I can't. I don't intend to justify anyone going against an explicit agreement and selling things they don't have the right to sell. I maintain that not all freebies are necessarily prohibitive of resale, especially ones given out under open licenses, like the GPL. In fact, it is quite desired for people to find creative ways to sell GPLed items, as it is an incentive for them to be spread far and wide as quickly as possible. Just like Linux itself. You can download the code and distros for free, or you can pay someone for them. Likewise, things declared as Public Domain, there is absolutely nothing unethical about selling them, because that is the essence of Public Domain. They belong to the public. You can sell them, give them away, whatever. Speaking for myself, I have no plans to resell anything that I didn't make myself. I do occasionally toss out a freebie animvendor I got at Yadni's that sells freebie animations for L$1, but only because the vendor script that came with it doesn't work if the price is set at L$0. Outside of that, I only sell my own work, mainly because I don't have the space to sell anyone else's. From: someone So which is it, or are you trying to convince us not to care also? I am actually curious. I suppose I am merely pointing out that the situation isn't black and white, and doesn't cover all instances of what are generally termed as "Freebies".
Nepenthes Ixchel Broadly Offended. Join date: 6 Dec 2005 Posts: 696	07-04-2006 20:41 From: Rusholme Malone How the fuck can a helicopter be "gay"? You talk like a schoolchild. Maybe it's a homosexual chainsmoking anthropomorphic helicoptor that resells freebies. I just added the chainsmoking bit because it seemed appropriate for a unethical anthropomorphic helicoptor.
Fa nyak >(O.o)< Join date: 8 Oct 2004 Posts: 342	07-05-2006 00:11 i question how easy it'd be to make a "freebie" permission. the way half of sl's vendors work, the person pays the vendor. and then the vendor gives them an item. the two actions aren't really linked to one another, and as far as the server knows, it's a box just giving out free items...some freebies are distributed in this manner anyways. and if you just say items marked as freebie can't be transferred by calls to the money event. i could just make sure you pay my vendor, then put the actual "give" in a touch or listen event after i ensure you paid by some means in the script. basically.... someone would no doubt make a vendor specifically tailored to bypassing this freebie measure.
Seagel Neville Far East User Join date: 2 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,476	07-05-2006 01:58 From: Talarus Luan Speaking for myself, I have no plans to resell anything that I didn't make myself. I do occasionally toss out a freebie animvendor I got at Yadni's that sells freebie animations for L$1, but only because the vendor script that came with it doesn't work if the price is set at L$0. Outside of that, I only sell my own work, mainly because I don't have the space to sell anyone else's. Is that true? I might have not tested it by setting the price at L$0. Sorry for that. Back to the topic, what if the creator himself sells his same items at various prices on several places, which are surly included L$0? Personally, I hope that is the buyer's problem, not the seller's. _____________________ Seagel Neville
Fade Languish I just build stuff... Join date: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 1,760	07-05-2006 02:54 From: Sarg Bjornson Fade, considering that almost anything this person does or says is highly unethical, does it surprise you? It is one of the few persons here in SL that I would straight refuse to talk to. No Sarg, I'm not at all surprised. That's why I didn't expand, I was stating the obvious already. _____________________
Androclese Torgeson I've got nothin' Join date: 11 May 2004 Posts: 144	07-05-2006 04:43 From: Loki Tuque Perhaps we need to suggest to the powers that be that they separate 'transferable' and 'sellable' into seperate settings so that we can create freebie items that can be given away for free but cannot be sold for any value other than $0? Not sure how this would effect being put in a box that is then sold for a greater amount, tho, hmmm. Char That flag could have an inheritence property attached to it. Like with the GNU License, if you use it in a program, the entire program becomes GNU ( overly simplistic way of looking at it, please don't jump all over me for it) anything that a "no resale" item is associated with inherits that flag and becomes "no resale" itself. _____________________ Androclese Torgeson Real Life, also known as "that big room with the ceiling that is sometimes blue and sometimes black with little lights"
Nyx Divine never say never! Join date: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,052	Ready to give up 07-05-2006 08:34 Whenever I get bored I will stop by a yardsale and check things out....looking for freebies being sold. I have never ever YET found a yardsale that does NOT sell freebies and it's pathetic. Pisses me off....this I think is my 'cause', but a lost one. But I am pretty tired of IM'ing folks and saying...errr you are selling freebies are you aware of that? Hell the Linden textures that are provided for us are a biggie....WTF? sigh _____________________ Yes Virginia there is an FIC! If someone shows you who they are.....believe them! Don't be afraid to go out on a limb, because that's where the fruit is!
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	07-05-2006 08:58 From: Talarus Luan I don't dispute that, but SOME part of the profit is based simply on ignorance on the buyer's part. There's no end of people gouging / capitalizing on some new fad because they "know" something that the buyer doesn't. On the contrary, I could duplicate nearly every item I've bought in SL. (Save clothes and skins, and that's more due to lack of artistic ability than lack of technical ability.) I don't because I'd prefer to buy someone else's work and free up my time to work on those projects I find personally interesting. _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	07-05-2006 10:34 As Fa Nyak pointed out, and as I've noted many times before here in the forums, separating Transfer from a hypothetical Sell permission wouldn't stop the "unethical" from re-selling items they received for free. There are just too many ways to get around such a restriction. Your average player probably wouldn't look for them, but it's not the average players that are setting up stores with loads of previously-free items for sale. The problem (for those that have a problem with it) is twofold. First, you have a few people that are willing to sell other people's creations to make a quick buck, and they either don't care or don't know that those creations were meant to be free to the public. Secondly, you have people, often new to Second Life, that just don't know that the same object could be had for free elsewhere. The first participant, the unscrupulous seller, is hard to stop. As long as it's possible to make multiple copies of something and give those copies to others, such people will find a way to get money for doing so. The other participants are many and constantly renewing. Education and information is all that is needed to keep them from being scammed, but... Well, some people just don't want to listen. And there really isn't anyone or anything out there telling them. Here's what I've done in the past... I've put a script into my freebies that will notify a new owner that the object is supposed to be free, and if they paid for it they should report the seller to the original creator. True, this is closing the barn door after the cows have gone, but at least they now know their beef has hoofed it, and they might be a bit more careful in the future. Unfortunately, this won't work in moddable objects since anyone can remove the script. (Though you can work the code into other scripts in the object, like a car's engine code, so that removing it will break functionality.) If anyone is interested, I can provide this script. I'm sure I have it somewhere... _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)

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