SLStats.com Redux

You aren't getting that your UUID isn't your privacy, I'm really trying to explain to you that this is public data within SL, and much like i can take a picture of you in SL and put it on the private Snapzilla, slstats can take your public data and publish it.

Privacy was never part of the plan here - quite the opposite. If you want privacy, turn off your computer and read a book in the bathtub, that's honestly what I do.

Er, my post was in response to Cadroe and it's specifically addressing scanning and avatar visibility. Both of which can be nullified by data filtering if LL chooses to implement it.

Ahh sorry.

Same thoughts apply

Anyway, just because we don't have privacy now (voyeur's paradise), it doesn't mean it will never come. It's possible, it's in LL's best interest down the line, and I can wait.

I've seen enough miracles in my lifetime. They do happen.

LOL, we'll have to respectfully disagree on what's in LL's best interest, and just stick to both liking toast, alright?

Well... ah... um... if you were hanging around her/him for 1 hour or more then you were not just happening to walk by.

Plenty of people value privacy, but it's a tradeoff. I think the fundamental problem right now is that there is only one SL to choose from. It reminds me of the whole PG versus Mature conflict. When there is DisneyLife and HustlerLife, it will be irrelevant. Same with privacy. Not that this helps us right now.

If I were naive enough to believe that a prostitute, uh, escort, does nothing but escort all day long and only ever comes within 20m of her clients, I think I'd have to shoot myself in the head.

It is disingenuous to suggest that publishing a searchable database of avatar associations/behaviors collected by hundreds (someday thousands?) of watch-wearing avatar monitors is the same as one person taking a picture in a park, or being logged when you visit a web site.

"Interesting" things happen when the monitoring is ubiquitous and fed into a database. I know of no public searchable database of who visited all the web sites in teh IntraWeb, but perhaps we will get to see how kewl and fun this is as part of this SLStats/Linden Labs experiment.

Torley is excited to see "incredible progress in social networking from Resident-run sites". All the normal web-based social networking web sites I am aware of are opt-in services.
There would be much less of a problem with SlStats.com if it were an opt-in service. While Torley was apparently contacted by the SLStats guy, he seems to have overlooked notifying everyone else in SL. I can't see how there was any sort of informed consent to a world-wide monitoring program by the population of the world. For those that don't see problems with this, well... I'm not even sure where to start explaining.

Hmm, wonder if there's a reason for that? Give it a shot!

Mark's intent with SLStats is ok but I'm not happy with the wide-open presentation. What I want to see for SLStats.

1. Data are behind login, not in plain sight.
2. A subscriber can see only his/her scan list. (this will remove a lot of the need for opt-out).
3. Some might want a full opt-out (appear on no published scan results).

As it stands, all the data are visible.

Hope you see this, Mark.

I take it you stay locked up in your own private foxhole, and never go to clubs, sandboxes, malls or other public areas? You only need to be near them for an instant, at the time the sensor sweep goes off, and according to the maker's website, that watch gadget does a sensor sweep every 5 seconds, reporting back to the website every 5 minutes.

You could be ANYWHERE, at any time, and someone wearing one of these watches comes within 20 meters of you when it happens to do it's sensor sweep, and 'Bing!', you're associated with that person on a public website, right along with the people they sleep with! Maybe you'be never seen them. Maybe they were on the other side of a solid wall. Maybe they were the griefer last night who camped just outside range of your security orb and tossed firebombs at you all night. But no matter who they are, you're permenantly listed as one of their buddies! Isn't that sweet?

No thanks. I'm a little more selective in who I want to call 'friend'.

As soon as that fellow activates his opt-out option, I'm opting out. And I'll advise every person I know to opt out as well, and to refuse to use this 'service'.

I'll let you do your own research and draw your own conclusions.
Some keywords to get you started:

Dystopia
Data mining
Mass surveillance
Surveillance abuse

Regardless of where one might stand on the issue of whether or not this is harmless or a potential privacy problem, Mark could go a long way toward showing good faith by simply allowing those who have issue with it to opt out of having their avatar information included. It is a simple step that provides a balance between the functionality of the site, and the wishes of users who are being included on a site they are not necessarily participating in by choice.

Cool! Do that with your database!

You are old enough to know perfectly well that Torley is excited about everything and speaks at the behest of others

Woo! People saw me!

Personally, I think this is quite cool... While there are privacy concerns, it's not like one can tell WHAT I am doing.

I agree with Cris. My suggestion to Mark is to implement an opt-out system that works thusly:

Residents who have opted out do not show up on anyone's public encountered list. However, their profile should remain on SL Stats, as the profile information is already publicly available via an in-world people search. In addition, if a user logs into SL Stats, he should still be able to see everyone he encountered on a private list, regardless of whether the encountered resident has opted out.

Since I already know who I have encountered and could easily maintain a list myself, I would not consider it a breach of privacy to have this information recorded for me and kept in a place where the general public does not have access.

Yes, but we know what you are doing!

Okay, I'll stop... party pooper... But puppies fly so well when kicked...

For anyone to trust it as a future internet, there have to be some kind of privacy rules in place. For example, Amazon doesn't post ever book I look at or buy, nor do they let other amazon members download what I read or view. SL plays at being a platform and future of the net, yet refuses to enforce even basic privacy rules that even the most common website take for granted. Therefore, ingame info they gather should stay ingame, same as info a website gathers on me stays in that company...its not available for just anyone to suck down and do stats on, ala slstats.com

Yes, and they do not post it so that any joker with a script (ala slstats.com) can suck it down and set up a mecca for stalkers. I do not mind websites gathering data, for the most part they keep it for themselves not stick it up on 3rd party websites. Major difference...I don't see my login name and what books I ordered / looked at posted on a amazonstats.com sucked down from Amazon...yet I see my user name and contacts posted on slstats.com, sucked down from SL by an unscrupulous website operator.

Amazon I respect, LL for allowing this I do not.

Same for me, opting out on the spot from this little private big-brother project. It never ceases to amaze me, the mind of techies....just because data is available and you CAN do something like this doesn't mean its a good idea or should be done, at least not in the current implementation.

if he only tracked anonymous stats (how many in an area) for non-watch-wearers and collected the associations and such for just other watch wearers, then it would be cool. Why won't he do this? Not enough sheep to present themselves for voluntary ear-tagging, so he has to force us all to participate to please the voyeurs that will use the site?

Yes I am. And the info they are given are not published in openly searchable third party sites. That's the difference.

Was at work and did not have time to elaborate. Let me explain. There has to be a minimal level of trust between the user and the websites, or platform in this case. For example, I have never see any website that I have done business with allow a third party to data mine the info I give them and post it on another site not controlled by them. This is what SL is allowing to be done with SLstats. So, what makes you or anyone think I would do real business beyond game playing with a company that cannot guarantee me at LEAST the level of privacy of current websites? Until they crack down on third party data mining, that is keep ingame info ingame, they will not have the trust that current websites have and therefore have no chance at being the future of the web, at least for me.