Object Returns and Ownership

Mein Gott!

I've seen retirement communities where people have nothing better to do than write rules to piss each other off conduct themselves with more civility than this.

If Nutellaburg is a model for anything I suggest you erect a statue of Pettiness in the centralishavolksplatzen.

My eight-year-old trumps you on interpersonal conflict resolution with her peers.

If I was more than an observing moderator, I would delete that post, KB.

Since the other moderators seem to not be doing that, I will ask you to delete it yourself.

Introvert, you can always take the attitude of considering all this an advanced form of entertainment

For the record, in the past 24 hours, I've received quite a large number of requests from residents (sadly, anonymous, as the forum group tools do not tell the origin of those requests) for keeping this thread under control. I see that almost every entry here has some violation on the ToS, either through veiled threatenings, or through plain and simple direct attacks.

I'm keeping this open just for one good reason. Some of the questions posted here are actually very interesting, as they offer some insight on the way people think and act. I would like to urge you all, in the spirit of the old times, to discuss those as rational human beings. If that's impossible, there will be no other choice but to close this thread.

I have steered clear of Neualtenberg because I don't like rules and regulations, and I certainly don't want to spend my SecondLife writing laws, observing them, having boring meetings etc.

I assumed the people involved with it did, and what is more, would have recourse to the rules and regulations should a dispute arise. So I find it hard to understand the constant references to different acronyms, laws, reports of conversations etc. Either the laws and regulations are worth a damn, in which case use them...or they aren't.

If they aren't...then it seems to me that the whole concept is dead in the water, and may as well be relegated to the SL History Wiki....
Cali

It isn't?

As always Ms. Llewelyn, well said. Sorry to be camping your threads (I'm one of those "new posts" kinda guys).

To be a citizen of Neualtenburg you need:

1) A deed on NB land
2) Not to have been denied citizenship from the SC

The rest of it doesn't matter, it is simply a freedom to express personal politics. I'll take an example from RL. Matthew Coon-Come, first cousin of my ex-girlfriend, was National Chief of the AFN and the most powerful aboriginal leader in the Americas at the time. He's considered the equivalent of the 11th Premier, or as powerful as the Governor of Texas in the US.

He doesn't recognize his Canadian citizenship nor any obligation to the Canadian gov't. He recognizes the authority of the Quebec Cree gov't and the AFN only. The Canadian gov't treats him as a citizen and he doesn't recognize this.

And no one has a problem with it...

Does your friend obey the laws of Canada?

Certainly not all of them, he's organized a fair amount of civil disobedience in the past. Breaking the law, as far as I'm aware, has no impact on citizenship in Canada.


BTW I'd like to please ask for a nice house for my plot. If you and Ulrika are ok with that I leave it to you to pick whatever structure you'd like best for my plot. Many thanks in advance.

not a problem, I've been adding new houses here and there --I just ask for your patience as I've got my work cut out for me

Such is law in the banana republic of N'burg. If a foreigner engages in civil disobedience they are denied a trial by jury and receive an indefinite ban on citizenship. If two government officials pirate IP and with a friend act above the law, then its written off as civil disobedience (without punishment in this case).

I think you should demand consistency and the application of objective truths instead of falling back on the weak and subjective interpretation of law based on anecdotes and convenience.

~Ulrika~

Hmmm,

Well this is late, but I have to respond to yet another filthy accusation from Ulrika Zugzwang.

In this case there is not even a question of originality. They are an original design by myself made with 100% original textures that I slaved over for a week and yet they are dismissed in a single sentence as yet another piratical act. I was there when Ulrika went to look at the walls and she spent all of a minute looking at them before flying over to me and accusing me of yet another "illegality."

The wall in question was modeled after a RL photo of a RL wall (I can provide the picture to anyone interested), and intricately detailed so as to approximate that RL object. I made no less than 16 different, 512x512 completely original textures made by me from scratch and from original source photographs of the actual castle walls and buildings in question. 10 of these are tiling textures. This represents a huge amount of my own personal work and time and I will not stand by and be accused of these crimes any longer.

I have finally had enough.

After two days of being abused, I have reported (AR'ed) this post and every single other lie in every post all the threads you have started. After being on the forums a year and only reporting one or two posts ever I have just made more abuse reports than I can count! I encourage all the other members of the Government of Neualtenburg that you are spreading these lies and insinuations about, to do the same.

- I formally request to the resmods that the LL Bulletin board thread "Texture & building piracy in N'Burg" be closed for continual lies, misinformation and repeated personal abuse.

- I will also be making a personal formal complaint by email to Linden labs (to compliment some by others I have already had wind of ) that seeks to have Ulirka's foul mouth to be permanently removed from the LL forums. I encourage others to do the same.

- I hereby formally request that the moderators of the Neualtenburg forum also remove Ulrika Zugzwang's ability to post in the Neualtenburg Projekt forum

- I hereby formally request that the moderators of the Neualtenburg Projekt group forum seal the two threads "Object Returns and Ownership" and "Restitution for Citizens" and place a sticky at the top of the thread explaining the abusive nature of some of the comments to be found therein and their unproven nature.

I appreciate and have read the new rules to be posted by Diderot Mirabeau and agree with him most heartily that silencing debate is the very last resort, but to me personally, this *is* the last resort. There is nothing more to be gained from debating these issues. In fact Ulrika is not debating at all but using the forums as a platform for personal attacks and self aggrandizement.

If the threads are not closed by LL and they don't even consider banning Ulrika Zugzwang from the forums, even if only while a formal review takes place then we will know for sure that she *is* the special little enfant terrible of Linden Labs. Ulrika's actions are far in excess of anything other people have done. Things that have caused them to be banned for days, weeks, or even permanently.

If LL does not act, they will be seen as the hypocrites that many suspect them to be in Ulrika's particular case.

I appeal to Torley Linden in particular to do something here. This is a serious matter that has gone on for ages, and far, far exceeds anything Prokofy Neva ever did.

How can you let this go on?

I've been avoiding posting in these threads but the claim and counterclaims are coming fast and furious now. The situation is escalating once more and, if we are to resolve this, we all need to take a deep breath and quit winding each other up.

There have been various claims made here regarding the unauthorised use of user-created content; removal of content from the city; and replacement of content within the city. We now need to wait for the appropriate institutions of our government to convene to establish the facts. That isn't going to happen at the speed of light, no matter how much we might wish it were so.

What would help would be if all sides could agree to deescalate the situation i.e. agree not to remove disputed content or replace existing city structures until the disputes mentioned above have been resolved by lawful means. It might also help if we stopped accusing each other of 'piracy' and issuing demands for people to be silenced and removed from the forums. These actions just inflame passions and provoke a bigger and nastier reaction. It won't help us to resolve matters.

Plus it makes us look like a laughing stock in the eyes of the rest of the SL community. I had taken to wearing my 'Neualtenburger' tag with pride, it's beginning to feel more like an embarrassment.

It is my duty to report, as a forum moderator, that several people have reported this thread to contain several claims of alleged IP violations, unproven acts of theft/piracy/lies, and veiled or direct personal attacks.

While in some cases alleged "proof" was presented on the forums — hardly the proper place to do so — it was also dealt with was an appropriate reply by the City under the DMCA: removal of allegedly offending content.

This provision was hardly required, unless a complaint was properly filed as per the DMCA. There have been claims that things as "reverse-engineering" are "piracy", when the DMCA explicitly allows reverse-engineering (look it up!). Embedded in strong rhetorics, several accusations have been made, that give the impression that the Government of Neualtenburg allows or even encourages piracy of content. Naturally enough, the right to state those claims, unproven or not, are an act of freedom of expression; however, when those claims are stated in a form that violates the spirit of the forum moderation rules as perceived by Linden Lab (which Neualtenburg has to defer to in this case), there is no other option for the current forum moderators to advise caution when stating unproven claims.

I thus urge reading the DMCA itself, and if copyright violations as stated by the DMCA can be proven, the forms found here should be used.

I wanted to let citizens know that there are more parts of the wall being taken down, despite Kendra's disapproval and without permissions from the RA. Since it seems like the individuals doing this are not communicating this with citizens, I thought I would pass it on. I just wanted to add that the individual returning this is Dianne.

On an unrelated topic, a link to the undeniable photographic evidence of piracy in the city can be found here.

~Ulrika~

I thought I'd restate from a previous post, that the problems with replacing these walls are:

1. It irrevocably destroys historic city structures.
   
2. The walls were reverse engineered without discussion or permission from Kendra's work.
   
3. The walls have a higher prim count.
   
4. There was no authorization for the removal of large historic city structures from the RA as required by law NL 3-10.

~Ulrika~

As to your last bullet. The Guild believes itself to be operating within the authority granted it under NL 3-10. Any citizen who believes otherwise is within his or her rights to file a petition to the SC regarding the legality or lack thereof of recent alterations.

As to your last use of bold, since I am the one receiving PMs as items are returned and there has been no statement concerning the removal of Kendra's historical structures, I thought I'd continue to keep individuals updated, as her work is about to be irrevocably erased.

Also, Kendra already stated this:
~Ulrika~

stick my nose where it no longer belongs as I am no longer a citizen of the city and have no vot enor say in its affairs.

In other words, I want to continue to stir the **** pot.

---

Have I interpreted the most recent posts by you correctly?

Yes. Yes. I am pretty sure that I have.

Actually, there is a quite a large amount of my intellectual property in the city still, that goes well beyond ownership of prims or my current status as citizen. From the creation of the city name, to the layout of the streets, to the city theme, to the founding documents themselves, I have touched almost everything. Indeed, I am still group founder and officer of at least three of the fundamental N'burg groups, from which I cannot be expelled. Whether you like it or not our past, present, and future are inexorably intertwined.

So while you might personally find snide posts like yours above satisfying in the short term, you are serving to only complicate and compound what is already going to be a long and difficult process for all of us.

~Ulrika~

I wanted to let you know that more structures have been returned.

I should state again that the structures being returned belong to Kendra and contain nothing of which I claim ownership. She's a citizen and did ask to see this stop. Is there anyone who can help honor Kendra's request or have you all supplicated to the whims of the cabal?

~Ulrika~

If you are speaking of the walls, They are all being replaced (except those surrounding the Altenburg section), I decided it would be too complex to put them in a third time (They are bitch to do), and the historical old walls will be remaining around my barony as it represents the historic oldest section of Neualtenburg.

IF for some reason the walls disappear around the Altenburg section then believe me there will be brimstone and hellfire raining down.

The whole situation was ridiculous frankly as the creator tags on these objects all clearly state my name.

yeeeeeesh.

At any rate I've convinced the Guild to do no more work on the layout of the City until they recieve sanction from the RA --which would have been proper procedure.

You could at last try to stay current.

There is nothing being returned that Kendra is not aware of. Reasonable people have come to an agreement over what to return and what not to return.

Thank you for letting me know Kendra. I'm just trying to watch out for you.

I'm sorry the old walls were reverse engineered and replaced unnecessarily. The good news is that the old style with a roof (as opposed to an open style) has been kept. Personally, I think your choice to go with roofing adds a lot to the over all look.

~Ulrika~

I'm not convinced that they are reversed engineered at all. I used the actual walls of Rothenburg Ob der Tauber as inspiration. I'm sure Dianne did the same. They are similar enough at any rate not to be jarring and different enough not to make me peeved.

Each wall has an additional 4 prims which adds to 200 expra prims being used, OTOH --my Marktplatz fachwerk are 8 prims to your 20!

I am the mistress of prim economics.

and I'm looking out for you as well, Zug -- at the moment I am as a bridge made of olive branches stretched betwixt the opposing parties.

Hopefully cool heads can prevail in this --The Government restored to order, IP rights respected and incorporated as recognized canon and N'burg will emerge --as it always does after a crisis --far stronger than before.

While I'm not sure I share your opinion on the nature of the walls, I definitely do appreciate you acting as moderator in these discussions. You've proven yourself to be the best states-person in the city.

~Ulrika~