Blender Sculpties: Prim.Blender vs Domino

Just different - I didn't look at yours before sharing my method. Which is better would depend on intended use. You can always move a line or two on the UV map to adjust the distribution of the faces. That's when the bake and reimport makes sense as you get back normal sculptie face distribution with the import.

I added the "Bake Sculptie LODs" to make UV adjustments like that easier to get right

I read it as select end 2 rows, rotate around joined edge 90 degrees, increase selection by 2 rows, rotate 90 degrees, increase by 2 more, rotate 90 degrees. You should now have a boxed cylinder (same as my starting point but at 8 x 8 ). Then scale ends of cylinder to 0 to pinch etc. It's similar to my approach but with a few extra steps.

With a 9x9 plane, folding it into 4 sides would come out to 2x2x2x3, at best. Subdividing twice also ends up with 1296 faces.

Assuming the intended size was meant to be 8x8, rather than 9x9, it works fine. However, you're then working with a shape that isn't truly closed in any area, while (If I'm not being blonde here), a cylinder-created cube is still connected in all but the ends, which are scaled to 0, allowing for less error in the sculpty creation.

Yes, that is exactly the way i was trying, but i thought Bonk talked about an easier approach... And this smells by far more complex and error prone compared to the way it can be done with the domino scripts...

I am quite sure, that he refers to vertex counts, not to face counts here.

You could do the "stitching" manually, if you use blender and if you are a purist and if you do not want to use scripts:

Fold the mesh to a cube until it looks like a boxed cylinder. Then remove duplicates where the mesh touches itself. From what i have seen, the UV-map will remain intact and the sculptie bakes just fine as if it had been initially created from a cylinder "in the usual way". See also the "Sculpties for the blender purist" video, which explains in more detail, how that can be done

Silly me! Oopsies. I have a dislike for vertices, visually, so never think about that at first.

If, however, we're talking about doing it that way (I'm really in an odd way, today. Was using Domino's scripts to create an 8x8 face plane sculpt, silly me!), it's not quite as simple as it originally sounds, since you'd need to set material shader settings for the object before you could bake/export a sculpt map, at least for Blender. In the end, it adds even more steps, and using Domino's scripts is still awesome

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You can still bake with my scripts on normal meshes. Anything you can unwrap to a square UV map will work.

For me the problem of this discussion here is, that we are talking about the borders between a conceptional approach (domino) and a more practical? approach... Let me explain:

With Domino's scripts the way how you create a cube is a consequence of the underlaying principles. So basically the scripts has no idea of the "concept of a cube", but because the principles allow it, you can make it. The downside is, that you must know at least a tiny bit about the underlaying principles, which can be voted as not very user friendly (like blender itself, which "suffers" from conceptional weight...)

On the other hand many programs just introduce the "concept of a cube/sphere/triangle/...". Hence it looks very natural to "just create a cube" and then you are allready done. But this is somehow shifting the problem from "understanding the principles" to "creating the templates", since at some place every program needs to define what a cube is. For me this is always a template (even if it is programmed).

So my shortest answer to why blender is still the superior choice (for me) is:
If you like to learn the underlaying principles, then learn how you can create cubes with the domino scritps. Then you also know, how to make virtually anything with them with no additional effort.
Otherwise just use the JASS-library now as it is available. The JASS-Library is definitely a template based solution and i see nothing at all wrong with going that way in connection with dominos scripts. In fact for me it is an ideal symbiose of both approaches

argh, apologize for the long fairy tails i am telling

10? I actually made it up on the spot as an example as I'm more used to doing it the first way.

I just tried it in AC3D, and 3D Max and it takes longer in Max, but still not more than about a minute.

The thing is, if you know the tools, you can do it quickly in any program. In Blender, I can do it two different ways, in under a minute, easily. One to preserve LOD, and one to allow the greatest amount of 'separate' objects. You just have to be used to the flow of Blender, just like for AC3D and Maya, if you're brand new, it'll take a little time to get used to it.

Learn the tools, and anything can be easy and quick.

As I keep saying - whatever works for you. I'm increasingly getting the impression there's more blinkered fanaticism than actual sense in any of these posts.

- i tried out 3 methods and counted the steps and the timing. here is my personal result:

1.) Ponks way: i am able to achieve a perfect cube with perfect LOD and correct stitching in a minute and with 9 steps (about 27 mouse clicks plus 17 keyboard interactions):

1.) create the mesh (8*8 faces)

kbd: SPACE
mouse: add->mesh-sculpt mesh (1 click)
mouse: Select tpye (2 clicks)
mouse: Select X Faces (1 click)
kbd: "8"
mouse: Select YFaces (1 click)
kbd: "8"
mouse: Select subdivision level (1 click)
kbd: "0"
mouse K (1 click)

2.) rotate the first side by 90 deg

mouse: Pivot (rotation center=cursor) (2 clicks)
kbd: TAB (go to edit mode)
kbd: "a" deselect all
kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (1 click)
mouse: place cursor (1 click)
kbd: "r90" (rotate 90 degree)

3.) rotate the 2nd side

kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (1 click)
mouse: place cursor (1 click)
kbd: "r90" (rotate 90 degree)

4.) rotate the 3rd side

kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (1 click)
mouse: place cursor (1 click)
kbd: "r90" (rotate 90 degree)

5.) stitch the overlapping vertices (just to make it perfect)

kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (1 click)
mouse: mesh -> vertices -> remove doubles (1 click)

6.) pull the top/bottom vertices to a single point

kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (top vertices, 1 click)
kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (bottom vertices, 1 click)
mouse: Pivot (rotation center=median point) (2 clicks)
kbd: s SHIFT Y 0 (collapse top/bottom to 2 points

7.) align top and bottom vertices to the correct plane

kbd y 0.75 (shift the single points into the nearest plane,
finishes the top/bottom of the cube)

8.) add 2 levels of subdivision

mouse: Add Multires (1 click)
mouse: Select simple subdiv (2 clicks)
mouse: Add level (1 click)
mouse: Add level (1 click)


2.)Dominos approach (slightly simplified, but same results): I am able to achieve the similar result in 30 seconds and only 6 steps (14 mouse clicks + 8 keyboard interactions)

1.) create a cylinder with 4*4 faces subdivision levels=0

kbd: SPACE
mouse: add->mesh-sculpt mesh (1 click)
mouse: Select tpye (2 clicks)
mouse: Select X Faces (1 click)
kbd: "8"
mouse: Select YFaces (1 click)
kbd: "8"
mouse: Select subdivision level (1 click)
kbd: "0"
mouse K (1 click)

2.) pull the top/bottom vertices to a single point

kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (top vertices, 1 click)
kbd: "b" band select
mouse: drag (bottom vertices, 1 click)
mouse: Pivot (rotation center=median point) (2 clicks)
kbd: s SHIFT Y 0 (collapse top/bottom to 2 points

3.) align top and bottom vertices to the correct plane

kbd y 0.75 (shift the single points into the nearest plane,
finishes the top/bottom of the cube)

4.) add 2 levels of subdivision

mouse: Add Multires (1 click)
mouse: Select simple subdiv (2 clicks)
mouse: Add level (1 click)
mouse: Add level (1 click)

3.) Using JASSLibrary:

5 seconds, 2 steps.

1.) open the lib (3 clicks)
2.) select the cube (1 click)


Sorry, but i do not see the central point anymore
What are we talking about ?

edit: Added the micro steps to each essential step.

Illustrated perfectly:

You appear to be selectively missing a few steps. Pulling the tops to a single point isn't a single click in blender, you have to select the lower loop, centralise the cursor, select the loop you want to point and point it. You're forgoing about 8 steps to make it appear simpler, when it really isn't.

Or select the edge loop, and snap to center of selection, then a quick drag.

For even fewer steps, you can do both top and bottom at once, a total of 3 steps (Select, scale, scale again to flatten)

The point was that someone wants to migrate from certain apps to Blender. Personally I can't believe they've ever used the apps they mentioned in the first place if they want to do this.

I have a *great* deal of respect for Blender and everyone who uses it with any degree of skill (particularly Domino and you guys), but if the option for something else is available...

ah! i thought that we were talking about differences between approaches... And your argument was, that the blender approach would be the worst thing to go.

But as you now mention above, it is your "personal believe..." that blender is not capable to do the job. So i have missed the point. Sorry for that.

Well, i can not tell about other programs, but i believe that blender can do the job in an efficient way. And i/we have proofed this believe... (see abvove)

btw: Concerning you remark about number of steps to go: I was focussing on the essential steps, not every single mouse click.

Yet you focused on every mouse click for my on the spot, made up version. Why not the blender one? I found that a little odd.

Not that my version is any real use to anyone since you can just make a cube with one click in all other apps.

Well, technically, there aren't that many clicks with Blender. Mostly keyboard shortcuts =P


You can make a sculpty cube in one click in other programs? Really? That's pretty awesome... I don't remember that in Maya, maybe I missed it. As for a regular cube, that still is one click with Blender. There's just a space involved, too. (This sounds like I'm mocking you, but I swear I'm not. Said in all seriousness)

Well, I think Maya is a special case, but I'm no fan of that program for SL use either. Chosen would be the one to ask, but I doubt he'd be so mad as to try and go toe to toe with Blender nuts! But I'm pretty certain you can. I know you can with modo, max, ac3d and zbrush.

In fact Zbrush's basic out of the box prims couldn't be more perfect for SL stuff, it's just a shame the program can't switch it into a vert selection/dragging mode for more geometric/technical stuff or it'd be far and away the best for SL.

Ponk,

You still seem to misunderstand the basics of how to use Blender, the steps I described for the cube are complete. If it had been necessary to move the 3D cursor or anything like that I would have mentioned it.

I mentioned the number of clicks (duration of them in dragging is also a consideration) and distance of mouse movements as this is something that only becomes apparent once you get past the beginner stage with Blender. It's why many consider it to be a fast work flow and it's also once of the least tiring on your hands. It's why your saying Blender was slow and required more effort to make things than other applications just didn't make sense to me. When someone states something as a fact that is not consistent with my experience, then I'll try to explain why it's not right.

Blender is an application that needs learning. It's perfectly understandable that some people aren't prepared to put the effort in. It rewards those who do though.

It wasn't your instructions that I found fault with, Domino, it was Gaia's in an effort to make it appear that one had fewer steps than the other.

I did give it my best shot for several days, but I found that few of the skills I'd learned in other apps were translatable, modeling is more about memorising the programs particularities than having a visually intuitive inteface where everything you need is recognisable, instantly accessable and above all usable. I do fully realise this is down to my lack of experience with blender, but it doesn't mean I don't know how to do what I want to do or how to get to the end result I set out to achieve.

I always say that the particular advantages of one program over another are entirely dependent on what it is you need to do. As I see it, there is no advantage to blender beyond the added functionality of your scripts.

I am, as they say, a vocal minority

Just to straighten that. Now i get picky i have added all micro steps in my post above. I know, it could be done with less mouse clicks and more keyboard interactions and probably it could be done more efficient than i did it. Note that all mentioned methods have been tested in blender! i am not comparing different programs, just different approaches as the could be done with blender. My personal result is (and i am sure, Domino can make it much faster!):

cube out of mesh: 27 mouse clicks + 17 keyboard interactions
cube from script : 14 mouse clicks + 8 keyboard interactions

Again: I do not want to make things look better for blender. And in particular i am not saying, that blender is easier than other programs. Sorry if i am not correct or choosing the wrong words. But at the end i really would like to get an answer to:

What is the essential property of your particular program, that makes you become more efficient in making a sculptie cube?"

I am asking this because i really want to know the details and i want to learn what i possibly could do better (as i learned from the video example from yesterday ). And it is definitively not to pick on you!

Dear Argumentative Ratbag,

Blender supports symmetrical sculpting, texture baking and it's free. I don't like Blender but it's definitely has some decent features.

There's only four complete sculpty making packages. None of them are perfect and Blender is the only one that's free. Not only that, but it has some features that are lacking in the other commercial applications.

So cut it some slack already!

Well, there's a few more than 4. More like 15 at my last count (modeling, texture baking and exporting a map), but the rest of your post I can't help but agree with, I just feel it's rude to ignore a post that's directed at me.

If I'm being a little over zealous it's because I get a little fed up with every thread with an unusual prim request being press ganged by the blender brigade as if it's the only possible option.

Yeah, I know the feeling.

All the applications have their pros and cons and so I can't really side with any. Although I am quite happy to see the newbs get sucked into the Blender cult simply because it's free admittance.

Unlike the evil Maya cult which empties your back account and forces you to sleep with their leader - Chosen Few..


Just kidding, Chosen!

* runs *