"Boundary boxes" proposal

wheee so basically on top of a physic simulator we need to run a sound atenuation simulator for text?

pleaaase

Not under the actual proposal. The boundary box/zone idea simply blocks text if you're in the area, rather than using an audio engine type thing.

Since you've bumped it anyway, I'll add another idea for an option, basically leveraging the occlusion culling feature, you could have zones with an option "Always cull contents for outsiders" which (for anyone outside the area) completely removes the contents from view. Anyone inside the box would see them as normal. And it would basically cull EVERYTHING client-side, including avatars etc, thus making it appear as completely empty space.

While we are at it, why not let us build underground like we sort of used to be able to?

I know the sims supports negitive X and Y but I don't know about Z.
But if we could build underground then the sim would have a easy to define zone as
"This parcel but (Z < -64)" .

Underground objects would not be visable from other parcels.

The sim could even keep the prims in a seperate object tree and thus they would not be visable even with mouselook. The only problem with this is that if they are in a seperate object tree it would be hard to have the physics engine process them and thus there would be no phisical objects underground except for avitars???

Now I know there is an issue with prims and AV's falling thrue the ground thus they added code to force everything to bob to the surface. But what if that code only checked a range like -64 to ground height?
Would sim then be able to let us build in the -64 to -760 range?

Edit: claification

I just wonder why we need something like this...not enough privacy for the sick things people do IG already?

Personally I think I get enough lag already from all the crazy stuff people build like the ugly-ultra laggy 100+ prim tree houses people are putting up all over the place. I don't need the server calculating things like where my camera can't go within a sim and who is not allowed to view my chat just because they're on the other side of an invisible wall.

My view is if you don't want people to see what you're doing....don't do it IG and keep it in your home, and if you don't want them to see what you're saying, use IM's...

I am excited about this. I don't care what people see me getting up to. I am sure they would get bored quick watching me shop and build, lol. What I am more interested in is whether this would make my views more pleasant. Currently I have to deal with my neighbor's ban lines. I have a bunch of 1 prim trees, but the ban lines show through. My neighbor doesnt see them, but I do. It would be nice if maybe the box showed as a fence or wall or could be textured by the owner. If nothing else, I could have my own textured wall hiding my neighbors ban lines. I do think that if you put up ban lines, you should have to see them too. Unfortunately, the fact that this hasnt been answered by the Lindens makes me think that it might not be possible.

While the boundary box idea adds a lot of complexity that may discourage newbies, the idea sounds great and should be easy to execute.
The ban lines are indeed ugly, but worse, they detract from the otherwise realism of in-world experience and in a proverbially rude fashion. Its time for a better solution.
On my property I erected 90 m tall walls to block the unrealism of these lines (with realistic walls) and so that I don't head off flying into the direction of those ban barriers that I've "marked" by walls.

Just been having some more thoughts on implementing this:

Simplest idea is to have (as I said in the first post) these essentially be special primitives. Parcels would have a limit like now, e.g for every 512 sq metres of land you get 2 'zones' that you can create.
Each zone can be an unlimited horizontal size up to the boundaries of your parcel, this may make them hard to fit on some plots, but hopefully cubes, cylinders and prisms will be available to make it easier.
Zones have a limit to vertical height, for example 20m. You can make a zone taller than this, but it will take up more of your zone allowance.

When an avatar collides with a zone, they become affected by the rules that are applied by it. So if I hit a zone that blocks chat to the outside world, then I would have an appropriate bit beside my information on the simulator to announce this. When I say something, if this bit is set then any object outside this zone that would otherwise hear my message, will not be sent it due to the zone's rules. This is easy to compare since each zone can be numbered (as there will only be a few of them per sim), if an object is in that zone it has that zone's ID attached, so the comparison is a simple integer one.
This will be the case with all relevant features, and applies to objects too (though objects may have separate permissions in case you need scripted relays for a build).
When I leave the zone by walking/flying out of it then any bits that were set by the zone are reset. If I leave a zone by teleporting all bits are reset anyway since the new simulator won't care what zones were in the previous one, same if I TP to somewhere in the same simulator. If I TP into a zone, the bits would of course be set as required.

The only remaining issue really is intersecting zones, currently I'm in favour of just not allowing them, ie zones can touch, but may not overlap. As the vast majority of builds will never require intersecting zones, those that do can simply have three zones, one that blocks chat, one that prevents access, and an 'intersection' that prevents chat and access.

Also, referring back to my previous note on having zones that cause object occlusion, and zones that block camera movement. This would be refined and replaced by zones that cause the simulator to not send object data. ie, if you are outside the zone, you will not receive any information about objects that are inside it, thus you cannot see any objects or avatars in that area.

Lastly, who the hell do I contact to get this thread moved to Feature Suggestions where it belongs? It might be an idea to re-type it, but it's attached to a feature proposal now so I don't really want to have two threads. It could also do with being renamed to 'Parcel zones'

Hi Haravikk,

I really don't think it matters where you post this, it is not on the immediate list of things to do by LL. However, they will eventually need to get to grips with the visual privacy problems. I don't think textual privacy is a problem because we can now select more than one respondent simultaneously in our im's.

It would be good if this could replace the av movement restrictions (ban lines etc).

I could see a simple way where all sim objects are listed on queues either on a boundary box or on the general sim object queue. When you in a bb, if you entitled, your client only gets what is in the bb, when you outside any bb, you see only the non bb sim objects. Unfortunately, this may make some sims very bare looking.

There is also the issue of what to do about the physics engine in a bb, the best way might be simply to turn it off.

The way to sell this might be:

a. personal privacy (just changing attire for ladies is a big thing)
b. commercial privacy (trade secrets etc)
c. less lag as fewer objects streamed to client.

LL will need to addresss this eventually, but I don't think I'll see anything happen till after havok 2!

Ed

And it seems that that time has finally come, although not for the reasons we expected.

For many years, the independence of SL communities to evolve their own codes of conduct free from coercion by other communities with different standards had the protection of Philip's often-stated vision of the way this world would work. It was to be a "Second Life" true to its name, one in which First Life political correctness would not be allowed to turn into persecution of Second Life communities with other worldviews.

While it was never directly challanged, that vision stood very firm for a long time.

Until now.

As described in Gwyneth Llewelyn's superb essay The End of Anonymity, Part II, everything has now changed. In effect, the days of Philip's original vision are at an end, probably as a result of irresistable pressure from one or more pillars of the establishment. What we call "Second Life" is now actually "First Life in Pixellated 3D", a businessverse in which the old concept of independent communities is dead.

From now on, everyone will conform to the norms of First Life, because otherwise every paparazzi slimeball without something useful to write will be moving his unhindered camera around everywhere and tearing SL to pieces with scandal stories.

Lots of political parties and high profile RL businesses are in SL now, just right for taking down by slimeball writers ... juicy stories of scandalous activity behind easily penetrated walls will be easy pickings. So, thou shalt not do scandalous things in SL, or SL will die.

Except that, of course, adults on an adult grid don't always want that. Indeed, a huge number of adult-serving businesses don't want that either. So what is the solution?

Well I suggest that this idea of Haravikk Mistral's might be a solution.

Perhaps the time has finally come for some server-assisted privacy in Second Life, for its own survival.

Morg.