Second Life Telephone Company (Or, LT&T)

Hey Folks, I've had an idea. I would like to create a telephone system, using a relay system throughout the world. I have some ideas which I think could make it efficient and useable, however, I need a scripter, or scripters, who would like to join me in my venture.

Why would this be better then IM, you ask? Well, first off, you could speak outloud, in regular text, instead of typing in a seperate window! Also, this is great for businesses, such as stores, who want to hire people to answer questions. Instead of having the stores say "IM <whoever> for assistance!", you can just say "Call (01) 99-001 for more assistance!".

The relay network could also be used by other companies that need it for their own purposes.

Please reply here and contact me in world if interested/for more info!

James, you read my mind. I've been thinking about this too, both for telephony and eventually, for setting up a data network. I just didn't want to be the person shouldering the leadership of establishing it. *cough cough*

Count me in as a resource. I'm still adapting to SL but I've had little trouble adapting to LSL.

hate to say it, but this idea is compleatly useless, we already have im's, why create something when we already have something just as good?

Ryen, maybe you failed to read the second half of my post, which answered your question. Please re-read my post.

So, your setting up a worldwide network for something that most businesses don't need or have, and can easily be replaced by a sheet saying the names of people to IM? Re-reading your post didn't help me on that one.

Well, the system will be feature robust, and I think more people will find a need for it then you think. IMs are buggy and clunky. I hate using IMs, I would love for this system.

Very cool idea. Not useless, would really add to immersion for your second life. Would be cool to build a real voice network (I work for a telecommunications company as a voice network provisioner/designer/project coordinator) with switches and the abililty to "add" new customers by implementing cross connects in the switch, etc. Now that would be real!

Buggy? Name some bugs with it plz? I have yet to find any...

As for clunky, the new UI might put you out of business, but just a thought. I don't mean to bash you guys, I like the idea, I just have yet to see the advantage I guess.

Darwin, weren't you guys using an IM-replacement during the space launch, prior to liftoff when you were communicating with the control tower? From what I could see, you guys were broadcasting all launchpad messages to the control tower, and everything Control said was broadcast back. I distinctly remember thinking it was cool.

I'd count that scenario as an excellent example of the advantages a relay network could bring. We have no scriptable network... while future scripting and UI changes might ease that problem, it doesn't help us in the here & now. I can't help picturing a staggering amount of advantages I could exploit from having access to message/data passage across a game-wide network, even if it was a wi-fi/relay-like architecture.

Plus, thinking big is fun.

Yes Coyote, except that was just so the crowd could hear our chatter. Otherwise I would have IMmed the tower.

So, to solve the "otherwise" complication, y'all made a LSL version of a local broadcast network.

I think a game-wide version of that sort of network could provide a hell of a lot of benefits. And the chaos of trying to run something that insane also appeals. Fun could only ensue.

I read that part the first time, but anyone who is too lazy to open another box and click (or type in) a name shouldnt be playing games. All this really does is replace the names with numbers, and remove the box.

Bleh. My second script ever was a phone. Jesus, some people have the most obvious ideas.
I dont see how chatting outloud your PRIVATE conversation with another person can be seen as an advantage over IM. I also dont see how a network of poorly cobbled together llShout relays could ever be better than true client-to-client messaging. And I cant even begin to think of the lag this would introduce to the conversation. Since llShout has a range of 100 meters you would need approximately 5 relays per 2 sims.
And all the constant relaying around of messages would undoubtedly add lag to the servers.
You, Sir, are a spin doctor, and this sound like a solution begging for a problem that does not exist.
I hardly ever IM anyways I prefer face to face chat.

James went to me with this 'idea' before coming here to the forums. Ive attempted this before, for him, and gave up on it. It *was* (and still is) useless as an idea. We already have reliable IM's, and we *dont* have to remember phone numbers. Heck, the IM even works when avitars go offworld. Personally, I believe this kind of thing would be impossible to maintain with today's technology.

Plus, Im working on a network of my own , that might actually have a decent application .

-Chris

I thought that was sounding quite familiar... I remember about 2.5 months ago he was trying to sell use of this "telephone" network to me... Are we shooting for Omnitech 2.0?

I at the time I shot the proposal down to utilize the network, in leu of developing a network personally, which I had some aspects of success. Text was easy. Objects was achieveable, and I managed to transfer objects even across sim borders. Why did I abandon the tech? Because of the reasons many of the above posts mentioned. It was slow. It was laggy. And it did cause measureable lag in the sims it inflicted.

I think with the, grant you delayed, new direct object->object communication Pheonix Linden mentioned, which I am sure will be much more functional and definately less lag-o-riphic, I don't see time invested being wisely invested in an soft coded network.

got tired of waiting on me, eh james? heh i don't blame you.

in his defense, We have gibson set up on a relay system to facilitate group conversations across the whole sim. works just dandy

I'm glad that others have expressed skepticism too; I didn't want to be the only naysayer.

Alondria basically covered my points. I too have worked on a relay network, and I don't think the current scripting system is up to the task. We're talking about hundreds of relays to cover the world, and trying to relay signals across a laggy sim, where event processing can become unreliable, is a headache.

(And as Nada and I have seen, his system works great in Gibson, but there was odd behavior in Bonifacio. That was just two sims; imagine covering thirty.)

Assuming Phoenix's "no distance limits" object-to-object communication comes to pass, I think that will be the way to go for implementing a communications system. I can't see that the effort needed to set up a relay network now will pay off, if a simpler and more reliable alternative is coming soon. (Although if you're just in it for the challenge, like Coyote, then that's a different matter.)

My underlying assumption is that people do things in Second Life for the fun of it, since 1) it's a game, and 2) there's no real money to be made.

I don't see why some people are jumping on James about this telephone thing. I think it's a pretty good idea, and thing some people will actually use it. A lot of the stuff people do in world, they do it for fun. It's like a new challenge to them because maybe they want to do something new. Even though it may not have any REAL advantages over IM, it could be a good way to talk to someone far away. Heck, we may even be able to get 3 way calling in there somewhere so all 3 people can talk in real time. Even though we can do that in IM's, it may be a fun way to talk to people. My question is if it's that useless, then why did Darwin go into space, Why are we building building, why are we even playing this game? Because it's fun, it's something we all want to do, and it's a challenge. I don't know why some people come onto these forums looking for approval from everyone when it doesn't matter what a lot of the other people think, if you want to build something, build it (within reason remember, i'm not promoting making giant penises).

And besides, if it does cause bad lag, then i'm sure James would immediatly take it down, and at least he tried.

Thank you, Brad, for understanding. This project was a) supposed to be a fun project b) be useful to the community and c) make all involved a bit of extra spending money. This was *not* intented to reinvent the wheel or cause lag on simulators. I would never intentionally cause lag, however, I never give up with out trying. Don't tell me its not possible, SHOW ME its not possible. Thats just how I am, I can't help it.

I was thinking about some other features it could have, and here is what I have come up with.

-3+ parties in a call (As far as I know, IM cannot do this, please correct me if I'm wrong)

-A group system, so you can dial a group, and everyone who is in that group will be called. Members of this group don't have to actually be in the same Second Life group, this is just so you can contact a group of friends at once, without having to pay $100 and add them all to the same group. I'm sure Dave Zeeman would have loved this during his SL Match Game, when we all had to join a group, just so we could all talk. (We, being the celebs).

Also, I am well aware of the new features that are being added to 1.1. Infact, I had every intentional of using those new features once they became avaiable. The relay was only a temporary solution, until 1.1 was released.

Oh, and, I think that the system in Gibson/Nexus Prime is a great system, in fact, that is where most of this idea came from. I loved using it, it was so much easier than regular IM.

Now, if anyone actually wants to HELP me in this idea, not just insult my ideas in public, please reply. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

Have a nice day!

Make a folder, drag both your friend's calling cards onto it, voila, instant 3 way conversation.

I never said that the phone was the only way to have 3 way conversations, i was just stating a use for it. The phone system would also give people more of a real life feel that they don't get by talking to people in IM's. If you go to these "phone hubs" to talk to people from long distance, it gives a more realistic feel to the game than opening up a box to talk to someone. Look beyond the normal view on things here people, and you will see that it could be a good thing to have. Maybe you will even use it once in a while. This game isn't all about putting something in that will help the community, it's about doing what you want to do (once again within reason as i have already stated). I'm starting to sound like a broken record, so now i'm going to stop.

For some people, making Linden dollars is one of their goals of playing SL. James usually gives his projects business-sounding names, and talks about charging for their services, suggesting that making Linden dollars is one of his goals. To the extent that this is a goal, everyone has to decide for themselves how much their time is worth, in terms of the Linden dollars they can expect to make. I think that the dollar return on time invested in a relay network will be low for scripters. Others may assess the time/money aspects of the project differently, but that doesn't mean that there's no point in assessing a venture in those terms, even within SL.

Don't let the insults get to you. I think it's important to keep an open mind and announce ideas. If nothing else they're helpful for brainstorming and no one should be knocking people down because of their ideas.

I don't wish to knock Jame's ideas just for the sake of knocking them. I just wish to remind him and others of the fact that we have danced this dance before. I just fear that it will cause a large amount of lag if/when it's use picks up.

As far as purpose for it, yes, there are neat things that can be done. While I don't feel that chat/IM'ing is the best use of a soft LSL network, the ability to send data between different sims definately would be handy. I could see great use for a wide spectrum of business applications, and it could be the backbone for some entertaining gaming ideas.

If a network can be formed that is flexible enough to achieve a multitude of applications, kewl, neat. However, I can see a laggy network come up, then others will duplicate it, and duplicate it and soon a very large quantity of the sim's power will be gone for something that does not have enough bang for the buck.