Closure in Immaculate.

Well, normally I would respond to THAT, but the issue is over, and as much as I would like to get everyone to kiss and make up, I think just forgetting all about it is as good as we're going to do.



Wise choice, I'll do the same. This thread is finished, I'll be ignoring it from this point on.

If anyone wants to further discuss any of this, see me in-game. Those that I've argued with or against, are welcome to drop by anytime.

Ingot

Except for the part I cut and pasted. (Oops)

That would be this then Corwin ?




Ok I've read that 6 times and I still see no slight to Misty whatsover - nor the sentiment you are implying.

I see:
Someone who DOES care couldn't make it - no reason implied or stated...
BUT If *I* can't make it then it is put down as I DON'T care.

This is a double standard. And is being pointed out.

If anything it implies that she DOES care.



Heres what follows directly, a little more to put that in context:




- following up that some people have no more points to make, and may not attend. And that some people may not be able to attend do to real life obligations.

I can't see anything there that implies anything about why Misty didn't show up, or any reflection on her negatively because of that.

Next we have a part that you DIDN'T quote - but you'd really need to twist hard to take out of context anyways:



Which again doesn't even imply what your saying..
It points out the hypocracy of the 'dont show up = don't care' sentiment. And it also doesn't hit at knowing any reason as to why there was a no show in the first place.

If anything it re-affirms a belief that she does indeed care.

Now even if I didn't know Nolan (which I do) I can gather from his previous postings that if he had something to say about that, he probably would have just out and said it.

I honestly can't see any point in the continuance of this other than the perpetuation of a flame war...

Siggy.

I agree with that last part Siggy.
As for Misty, she put a lot of effort in appolegising to me.
I'm still not happy with it but I guess that's all she wrote.
Can't do anything about that now.

The Lindens have promised more M-rated sims and that is what I'll focus on from now on.
Seems to me as the most peacefull solution to this whole ordeal.

Will you show me that, "cut and pasted" sentence please... Dont you realize we can all scroll up? Or are you just a mindless political battering ram? CAN YOU CUT AND PASTE IT HERE PLEASE?

That would be this part:




Siggy, I didn't cut and paste that part because it isn't relevant. I have yet to see anyone justifying Nolan's paranoia about having people percieve that he doesn't care. Of course I have yet to have any idea of what 'attacks' David is talking about either. Or encounter anyone who does have any idea what he's talking about. I also have yet to see anything other than wild claims about noobs with penis attachments the size of a school bus and unsubstantiated paranoia about lag from either of them. In short, a lot of hyperbole, very little substance.

First post on the thread by Aynen states very clearly that not attending this meeting could be perceived as not caring.

Put that with the rest of Nolans reply, as well as the other parts I highlighted and it becomes quite clear what he is talking about.

If he was making some accusation I would be amoung the very first to object - as Misty is a friend of mine.

I am, however, also a friend of Nolans and believe he is being misrepresented.

As for opinons on the whole PG vs M issue... they are now moot untill the next planned phases of self governing are implimented.

No one ever needed to state hard cold facts as to why they preferred one rating to another, that people from both sides shared their opinions I think is a bonus.
Someone could have said 'I want PG/M because vanilla ice cream sucks' and it would have been no less valid. Doubly so to non-residents.

The only options left are to bury the hatchets and pick up the peices, or to continue tearing at each other till no semblance of community is left to speak of.

Having friends on both sides of this issue, I hope it can be the former (cudos to those already setting aside differences and trying to heal the wounds -- Aynen and Ingot, I have nothing but respect for both of you).

I do , however, find irony in the fact that the debate for a Mature community not only turned into a very immature flame fest, it also nearly managed to destroy the communtiy to boot.. I can only hope that everyone takes what they can from the experience and learns from it.

Siggy.

Let me say it bluntly, Ingot is THE Crap stirrer. After all he wants to compare me (one of the most liberal folks you'll ever meet) to Rush Limbaugh. If that isn't paranoiac hyperbole I dont know what is.

I have been in SL since mid May, and these last few posts by me are the first instances where I have felt compelled to respond on the boards and speak out. Feel free to check it out. Check my total post count. Some of the people proffering the virtues of a Mature rating in Immaculate have eclipsed my total posts (6 months worth) in a few days....These folks have figured out in a few short weeks and in some cases days what SL and Immaculate needs...

Nolan Nash,

I know you feel strongly about this, I think a lot of us have.
But now that the argument is comming to a rest it's unclear to me how you feel about the nabourhood now.
Are you angry at the group who whas pro-mature or are you only upset about Ingot's methods?
I've met Ingot and he did not strike me as a person with ill intentions so perhaps, despite of what happend we can all set this aside.
I'm just asking because I do get the impression you're angry at us in the long term.
I just don't want to asume things.

Nolan:

I won't continue this here. The issue is dead, and there's nothing left to do here but give Immaculate a worse name that we have already.

I'm sorry you came out of this so angry at me, believe me when I say there are two sides to everything. Anyone as good at building as you are will know that!

If you would like to ignore me and hate me, I can't stop you from doing that. I'll try to stay out of your hair.

If you want to cool off, and drop by to talk to me, you know where my place is.

If you would like, I'll IM you my e-mail and we can take the entire flaming mess into a private conversation. If you have things left unsaid, no matter how vicious, they can be said there.

Just let me know what it would take to stop this all too public arguing.

Oh, to live up to my offer, I will now publicly apologize for saying you were using "Limbaugh tactics". I'm on the liberal side myself, and despise that man, so I can understand that such a statement had to be infuriating.

I'm sorry.

If you want to, I KNOW we can work this out. Anyone that hates Limbaugh can't be ALL bad.

Ingot

I only heard yesterday that Malachi moved out.

I don't know how much of that was due to this debate, and how much was due to other matters, but before he gets too settled, I'd like to make him an offer.

I have over 800 square meters (I THINK that was what the land buying system told me...) in Immaculate where my build is. It's underwater land, and I have worked hard to keep it's open beauty. I haven't raised any of the land one inch.

Malachi, I am now offerring my land to you at cost. You can have it, just for moving back.

If you're mad at me and want me out of Immaculate, this will also leave me looking for a new home, which might not be in Immaculate.

Those that know Malachi, please let him know of my offer in case he doesn't read the web boards.

Ingot

Thank you for the concern Ingot, it is much appreciated. However, my move was motiivated by factors extrinsic to the whole Immaculate debate. As this is my fifth site in about as many weeks, I've gotten quite used to moving.

For the record. I was never angry, nor am I now. Indeed, I do frequent my old sim because I like the people there. And although I appreciate David's concern for me, I was not in fact attacked for my billboards.

Frankly, I think we all - self included - ought to be a bit ashamed of our conduct in this matter. I think it has wound up being a good example of how *not* to reach harmonious concensus. I have learned a great deal from the events and I hope that others have too.

That said, I have added my land to the wlidlife preseve which I do think is a splendid idea. I have in the past offered my limited knowledge to anyone who has asked, and I don't see that changing. I bear ill will toward none and dearly hope that the folks of Immaculate do feel free to call upon me for any reason. I am glad to see that the acrimony appears to be evaporating and hope it will continue.

Peace.

This entire issue sounds very hostile. You know, there is a rule I use to decide issues, and it is basically the rule of unanimity.

If something pre-exists for example, an open window in a room seating 30 people - why does someone or some few choose to close that window when there may be even one person made uncomfortable by the change?

Of course such unumaity is rarely seen in our nature, so, I would have to think it best that sim rating changes be kept near out of reach because there usually will always be 1 who does not wish for change and I do not think that the needs of the many always out weigh the needs of the few or the one.

Of course one could say "what if that person barely has a viable plot of land or just moved in yesterday , etc.." Such rationalizing leads to exceptions which in the end creates disaffected/minority groups.

bleh.

I think these SL forums are becoming too politically charged and beginging to read more like windows into RL.

Briana Dawson - Club Vogue Dancer thinking she should stick to her school message forums for some reason.

Nolan, just let it go. It is time to drop it and let it die. I managed to restrain myself over his "assumptions about you and your tendancies" - a statement which, if we still lived in a civil society, is provocation enough for me to call him out. Being compared to Rush Limbaugh is not something that I view as an insult as he is an entertaining and talented debater and always unfailingly courteous to everyone he speaks with, no matter what their particular view might be.

Ok, looks like I still have TWO people mad at me.

All I'm saying is that I don't want to air this in public. If either of you is still mad and wants to work on it, I'll do whatever you want.

David, All I meant by that line was that I was male and straight, and assumed you were also, so that ex-wife thing was unlikely. Your line about me possibly BEING your ex-wife seemed to be a shot at hurmor to me, and I was just trying to keep it up. Humor can often defuse a bad situation.

It's obvious I failed. SO, you have my apologies for that.

What else offended you gentlemen? Anything you want me to address publicly? I'd like to take this either to e-mail or in-game conversations to let this thread die, but if either of you needs something said publicly, let me know. I'll seriously consider it.

I am asking nothing from either of you, I only want to get this behind us. Let me know how I can make that happen.

Ingot

Sometimes silence is the best tool to sweeten what words soem may have to eat.

And privacy and face-to face are the best ways to not be misunderstood.

So this thead should end, as has been suggested many times. Reparations and apologies are a personal matter, just as the hurts are a personal matter.

May we all learn as time goes to forget things. I applaud Briana in her statements and wish you all a happy Second Life.

See you in world
Reve Monde
The Fool on the Hill