protecting sculpt maps with alpha?

So, enlighten me. Your personal choice affects me and others who create textures, so if it is a rational choice, I would like to understand it.

Remember, we are not talking about deterring big-time criminals here. This discussion has been about crimes of opportunity. Chosen's point, which I tend to agree with, is that fairly honest people won't go to a lot of trouble to find a way to rip off textures. When someone tells them an easy way to do it in a public forum, though, some of those reasonably honest people may decide it sounds like a good idea after all.

The fact that the software you are talking about can also be used for perfectly legitimate purposes is irrelevant. Crimes of opportunity are all about context. In the context of his forum, the software is being discussed as a way to do something illegal. That strikes me as a hard choice to defend, but perhaps I am missing something that will make it seem logical. So, please enlighten me.

Gordon, what you consistently fail to allow for in your argument is the fact that not everyone's mind works the same way yours does. Clearly, (among other things) you're a go-getter. By all appearances, your world view is that information is out there, and all you need to do to obtain it is just look.

That's absolutely true, but it's important to understand that others don't necessarily see the world that way at all, and their view is as true for them as yours is for you. For many people, information is not something you just go out and find. It's something that gets handed to you by others. Say what you want about whether or not you like or dislike that attitude, but your opinion of it doesn't change the fact that it does exist.

For proof of this, I would submit my post count on this forum. It's well over 5000, as you can see, and 99% of it is answers to questions that easily could have been obtained via Google, Photoshop & Maya help files, direct experimentation, etc. The information people routinely ask for is freely available in thousands of different places, yet the questions here never cease. And those are just from the ones that ask. Something like 80% of all people who read the forums aren't proactive enough even to do that much. They just sit back and watch, never posting.

Quite obviously, there's a very sizable percentage of the population who will never ever research anything on their own. They absorb what they can by participating in, or by simply observing, conversations. Again, say what you want about whether or not you think it should be that way. It doesn't change the fact that it IS.

The simple fact that the tools you seemingly take such (odd) pride in talking about are documented on the Web and/or elsewhere doesn't automatically mean that most people will ever find them on their own. Only a small percentage will, those who think the way you think. The vast majority would never go actively looking. And needless to say, many of the very same personality traits that prevent someone from being a proactive seeker of information also prevent him or her from being a proactive creator of IP.

Now, put two and two together, and it's pretty easy to see what happens. Johnny has lots of potential uses for textures, but for whatever reason, he's not inclined to make them himself. He's also not inclined to go looking for the tools to steal them. He's just not that kind of person. But then someone drops the tools right in his lap, and says "here you go". What do you think is gonna happen next? That's right. Johnny just stole his first texture, the first of many.

I don't see why it's so hard for you to get how that works.

This is an extremely jaded and insulting view of your fellow forum readers/contributors. Copybot/GLIntercept or even discussing PS or or 3D Max, you, nor Chosen or anyone else has the right to tell people what they can or can not post as long as it does not violate TOS. That is the point I am discussing. Chosen's contribution here is well known and appreciated by many. But because of this "fame" he should be even more careful when trying to "steer" discussions or getting people to edit their posts. It may seem harmless in this case but it is the first step on an extremely slippery and dangerous path which none in this forum should want to embark on.

Jesse, surely you must appreciate the irony in what you're saying. By telling me not to tell others what not to say, you yourself are telling me what not to say. So you're just as guilty as I am, if there can be any guilt in such things.

Look, there's nothing wrong with making requests. Occasionally, I see a post I think could be dangerous, so I ask the author to change it. Sometimes they agree with my point, and they comply. Other times they don't. Either way it's up to them. All I can do is present my arguments and hope for the best outcome, just like everyone else.

While I'm mildly flattered at your notion of the amount of influence you think I somehow exude, I can assure you I have no magic powers of persuasion.

Of course you have powers of persuasion. Although we do not have titles such as "Senior Member", we do have the year that we joined, our number of posts AND most importantly we have our track records of helping people in certain forums. Are you saying Lear or Brianna would have censored their posts if the request would have come from Joe Nobody with a join date of 11/9/2008?

I have been the member of so many forums all the way back to the days of bulletin boards and have never come across one that is as helpful as these Content Creation forums. As non-designated Senior Members we should be doing all that we can to ensure the continued freedom and wonderful contributions in this forum. I have seen so many ruined over the years when answers started needing to be vetted or only designated people able to answer questions. In all cases it has started by simple actions such as yours. You see the narrow and myopic danger that there are bad people lurking here looking to steal secrets. I see a danger that can have much further reaching consequences.

your respected but sorry you can't brainwash people... yet



I don't know where you'd get the idea that I'm not tolerant of other ideas or traits. I disagree with making it so black and white especially since although your right I do seek out my own information I am not entirely adverse to information given to me.



Jesse, everyone has the right to make suggestions but like you I take umbrage at people telling us not to talk about certain topics and in response we have every right to comment and respond to them



@Rolig, I've created my own textures and uploaded them for the products that I have created. I don't sell textures by themselves or anything but I'm at risk of texture theft just as you and plenty of other residents are.

like any tool, there are positive and negative ways to use it, banning the tool has historically been show to limit the the positive, while creating a market that enables the negative to continue without much restriction


thank overly paranoid content security people.... by creating circumstances in which legitimate use is restricted of disabled, people become (rightfully) annoyed and a demand for the products which can get arroud those restrictions goes up, often created by people in that exact situation.... just look at DeCss or microsofts vista 'premium' content protection... this sense of self righteous rage eventually boils over into an "I'l show you for messing with me" mentatlity that feeds negative use (nevermind all the corporate money wasted on these protections that last ~2wks, but cost consumers untold millions in development and resource)


:: blink :: irrelevant? I rather hope not. should we stop talking about hammers because they can be used for killing? newspapers shouldn't print that someone was killed with a baseball bat because it might encourage others? that's a bit naive and silly... "today someone was killed with an unnamed blunt instrument, at an unnamed type of sporting event"

discussion of a thing is not tantamount to recommending or enabling it's use, and while I disagree with gordons choice of sig (given context it might seem to recommend some of the poorer uses) I can't say that I have any standing to ask him to remove it... although I could argue it to death =) ... maybe some context would help

Just a matter of time. I just sent away for my magic wand, X-ray specs, and secret decoder ring. I'm sure once I have those three items, I'll be able to do anything.




You seem to have grossly misinterpreted my words, while substituting a few of your own. I never said you were intolerant. I don't know you well enough to know whether you are or you aren't, but I suspect you're probably not. At least, I don't recall ever seeing any evidence that you might be. What I did say was that your argument fails to recognize the different ways in which people other than yourself think. Not everyone sees this brave new Googlable world that you see, and it's unwise not to acknowledge that.


I never said you wouldn't accept information given to you. Once again, you're substituting your own words for mine.

Look, nothing is ever completely black and white, least of all people. That much is obvious. What I was talking about were tendencies, personality traits, habits, paradigms, etc. I realize some people find the practice of describing people as creatures of habit to be somehow belittling, but it's absolutely not. While it's true that everyone is unique, there are a great many ways in which everyone's the same. There's nothing wrong with talking about that. It's not about putting people into categories so you no longer have to think of them as people, or anything like that. It's about a bit of healthy observation of what makes people tick. Don't take it so hostilely.

Oh, you misread me. I wasn't suggesting that the tool should be banned, or even that it is a bad tool. I really don't know enough about it to make that judgment. My point was very careful and very restricted. What I said was that telling people that this particular tool is good for ripping textures is unwise. It's not the tool that I worry about, it's the context in which the tool is being presented.

Like many people, I keep a spare key to my house hidden outside, knowing that eventually I will be dumb enough to lock myself out. I take a risk, of course, that some patient burglar will figure out where I hid my key. The KEY is not a bad tool. In fact, I find it very useful. I accept a small risk, knowing that most burglars are too lazy or inexperienced to bother spending ages looking for it. On the other hand, my neighbor has probably seen me hide the key, so it's also possible that my neighbor could tell the burglar where it is and save him the trouble of looking. If so, I think I would be justified in getting ticked at my neighbor.

I see the same problem here. A real enterprising thief knows all about the software in question here, or can find it on the Internet, as you point out. Like my key, though, it's not just sitting out on the front doorstep where any casual amateur thief can pick it up. As a texture artist, my risk from the amateur theif is fairly small UNLESS someone in a publc forum starts yelling about the fact that the software exists, and how it can be used, and tells where to find it.



Of course not. I quite agree with your point, but it's off target. I have no problem discussing hammers, baseball bats, handguns, kitchen knives, or all sorts of useful things that might sometimes be used to harm people. Those are all well-known tools. Commandos, however, know how to make lethal weapons out of all sorts of household devices --- things that you or I would probably never think of using to kill someone with. These methods may be common knowledge to commandos, but I would be upset if someone decided to broadcast them over the radio so that every kid with a bad temper can learn how to make them easily. Why ask for trouble?



And here's where we do agree, to a point. Discussing the tool is not the same thing as recommending it. I really don't think that anyone in this discussion is deliberately teaching people how to steal. Discussing it is enabling theft, however, and in my opinion is unwise. I have a pretty healthy respect for freedom of speech, so I feel uncomfortable about censorship. All the same, from a pure cost/benefit perspective if nothing else, I have to question what is to be gained by sharing potentially harmful information in an open forum. I, for one, had never heard of the software before it came up in this thread. I'm sorry that I have, because I also realize that a few dozen other people like me now know more about how to steal my textures than they used to.

I just can't see that... anymore than I can see talking about lockpicks (and the fact that they exist) enables, or even encourages their use. No one here was discussing HOW to use anything for the purpose of theft, nor were they providing information on where to FIND it... what was being discussed was a common security threat, by name.

as for commandos, you reminded me a funny line, which I'm pretty sure even with a demonstration isn't going to encourage much use.

Guard: You'll kill us... with a soup cup?
Riddick: Tea... actually.
Guard: What's that?
Riddick: I'll kill you with my teacup.

I LOVE it. Thank you, Void. Enjoy the day ahead.

thought we could use some humor to lighten the mood heh