Extreme Multi-Part Sculpts?

Hiya!

So, I know how to create single prim 'separate' objects, to a degree. Using most any 3d program, I can create a sculpt of up to about 9/10 pieces, easily, 8 if I want them all capped. However, in my wanders I'll occasionally see a single sculpted prim that appears to be comprised of much more than this, the highest number I've noticed being 24 crossed 'planks' that created a grid pattern. I can't recall where I saw it, so I can't check, but it had either uncapped ends on every one, or no bottom faces.

But then, I've also seen creations that are 'solid' (No open holes where faces should be) that consist of around 15-20 pieces, aesthetically. Each piece was very simple, of course (Usually a variation on a cube), but there were still a far greater number than I've ever achieved.

How are these extreme sculpts done, and can it be done with a conventional 3d application? I've wondered this for some time, now, honestly, and just can't seem to visualize how they're done.

I only know the location of one example of such a sculpt in SL, which is on my Mistress' private home, but if you need to see one to understand what I mean for some reason, feel free to ask me in SL to show you, and I'll be glad to. I'd say the creator, but it's done using Gene Replacement's mega prims, so no way to know =(

Use an oblong mesh!

16x64, 8x128 and 4x256.

I specialize in these, there are tons at my store. I put some pics in the gallery part of this forum too, but I don't know if they showed up or not (they do for me) as I hotlinked them from xstreet.

Alright, I admit, I actually had no idea what oblong sculpts were until I read it from another thread just now, thanks to you. Now to just use em

However, are there any other methods? I recall seeing my first high-count multi-part prim back in late 07, in some RP sim, unless my memory is going bad.

Well, you can get 16 separate parts from a regular sculpty using conventional modeling techniques (nothing more than pointed end discs though), but Cel's Sculptypaint lets you get up to 32 out of a single 32x32 mesh, which it pretty good work, but very fiddly by all accounts. It can do that because it's manipulating the map rather than the verts.

Photoshop is the only other way. Aminom pioneered it some time back and pulled of some great stuff for the time. He and Domino are the reason we have oblongs now.

No disrespect to Aminom and Domino, or the excellent work they've done for sculpty development, but just to get the history straight, oblongs were actually the brainchild of Xenius Revere, originally. Xenius suggested the idea (then referred to as a "rope prim" to Qarl almost immediately after sculpties first hit the beta grid.

As I recall, Qarl at the time said it was an excellent suggestion, and that he would do everything he could to see it realized, but that it would likely take a good long while for it to happen. And that's exactly what came to pass.

I only know bits and pieces of the story from there. I've got no trouble assuming that people like Aminom and Domino were indeed instrumental in helping with the push to get oblongs out the door. But Xenius deserves credit for having been the first to propose the idea.

I stand corrected. I had heard that in the dim and distant past, but forgot his name. Thanks for setting the record straight.

I think, this thread is for you

/8/16/227258/1.html

it was fun to read through it

Oh wow... interesting you bring that thread up... actually.. that is MY thread. Okiphia Rayna was my original avatar, and that thread was before the Oblongs were introduced, I believe. I never really did see much about how the extreme sculpts in that thread were made, either, really. Still curious

Yeah, I didn't get involved with oblongs until an early implementation went into a test client. There were a few of us who spent a lot of time exploring the possibilities to make sure the final version was the most flexible and useful for both SL and the third party tools used to make them.

As far as extreme multi-part sculpties go, I personally don't like them. My Blender scripts will let you create them though. They are done by scaling faces to zero width to isolate part of a mesh. So === becomes >-< as the middle face is zero width, it's invisible in SL. By using this horizontally and vertically (or even diagonally if you use triangle faces) you can separate bits of mesh and make separate objects from each.

The problem is that this has to be done at higher LOD levels to avoid wasting significant parts of the mesh. So these type of sculpties aren't good with LOD management. I prefer to future proof my stuff, so if SL ends up with a slim client on portable game machines or phones, even with a max LOD comparable to todays lowest, my content will still look reasonable.

Thanks again for the push into actually learning what an oblong sculpt it, Ponk. Been playing with it, and here's a very basic test:


Single prim into (If I counted right) 24 sections, with a few more technically possible. I literally ran out of ideas for what to add, lol. Hut, with stairs, two torches, a fire pit, and a mat for fire-tools. The texture looks like crap, but it's good enough for my test.

I am now happy, lol. I feel awesome XD

Thank you, again.

I'm with you, and against you, both. I don't like how they look in lower LOD levels, and how it's really impossible to make them look good aside from the highest level, BUT.... I also don't really care about that, in the end. It's my belief that if you're going to be using a sculpted prim, then you should be able to see the highest LOD. I don't see any reason to use them at all, if you're only capable of seeing lower, really, since it will lose it's effect, and make it essentially as visually pleasing as normal prims can achieve with ease.

As for phones or mobile gaming devices... I don't really care about them, either. I mean, if you're on a phone, you're not going to expect SL to look good, it's not rational. So, you're probably there for some other reason than visuals, so it really doesn't matter at that point.

Of course, you run into the idea of 'What if someone with a lower end computer sees your stuff', but again, I'm all for the higher end stuff. They know their limitations, and they're okay with that. If it means an occasional blob-sculpt, then hey, they're used to it, I'm sure. They can get normal prims for their own furnishings and whatnot, you know?

And then, of course, there's the side of 'Is it worth the resources'. Unless it's an organic shape, I really don't see how it could be worth the resources without being a multi-part sculpty. If you're concerned about resources, an architectural build is easily done in natural prims, etc.

If I actually create something intended for sale, though, I try to be as LOD-friendly as I can, with whatever I'm making. I just happen to enjoy making things that are very, very low prim, that seem to be higher prim. I like to try to keep it resource friendly, take as many prims out of the build as I can and use one sculpt for all of them. I can't remember the poly counts, atm, but I'll just say it takes 10 cubes to make one sculpty, so I try to make objects that would take 10 cubes, or equivalent, out of one sculpt. I prefer conserving prims rather than worrying about how it looks low detail, because with my system, I can afford that. I've disabled LOD changes for sculpts in my client, and I recommend people who can manage it on their system do, too. I'm biased in that my machine can handle it easily, but I don't sell most of my creations, so I just don't worry about it, usually.

That's not completely horrific, Keira

The problems with them are mostly texture based. And LOD can cause problems if you aren't prepared.

LOL. Rumbled.

"Thanks again for the push into actually learning what an oblong sculpt it, Ponk. Been playing with it, and here's a very basic test"

JUST knocked it up, did you? My troll sense is tingling.

Let's see you texture it

Lol yes, I did just knock it out..over about an hour. Tiny sections galore @_@ Based off of another sculpt of mine, doing less than this in 2 prims. And that _is_ textured Baked textures, using a basic wood image, bark for the logs, and that's about it. Very stretched looking, but that's a basic texture for it. I suck at texturing though..totally horrid at anything that isn't procedural.

And I actually thought oblongs were meant to take a smaller texture, to save load time, and didn't realize they were used to increase the density of the mesh in one direction.

Heh, nah

I agree with Ponk on this one. It took me quite a long time to grasp the complexities of seperate parts in a sculpty and even longer learning the best way to use them. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove, but I'd move on if I were you, Keira.

Excuse me?

I never said I was new to multi-part sculpts. In fact, if you take a look at my previous posts, you'll find my posts in the Show Us Your Sculpties thread, including single prim aesthetically separate objects. In my first post in this thread, I even said:

My question was on what I titled the thread after. The extreme end of these, with far more than I'd been capable of using. When Ponk brought up oblong sculpts, and I actually took a look at what they were, it wasn't hard to figure out how that's useful, since I understand how sculpts work, generally, and have been sculpting for quite some time now.

As for your own learning speed, please don't apply it to others. Given a situation, people learn at different speeds. Thanks to DanielFox Abernathy's Wings3d tutorials, I was able to learn the 'separate objects' bit quite quickly. I'd used 3d applications before though, so it already made some amount of sense. While it could take others more, or less, time than it took me to learn it, I feel it's not a great idea to apply your own experience as the only possibility.

Well it's a very nice go for your first time. Oblongs are extremely simple to model with, even more so than regular prims. Texturing them sadly isn't.

Also, it might be worth pointing out that not everyone uses tutorials to teach them tricks. I'm completely self taught for example.

The hardest part of the whole endeavor was figuring out how to create an oblong sculpt in Blender. I finally found a post by Domino giving a couple dimensions, and just went from that. Still ended up with 16x256, rather than what I assume is a more proper size, but whatever works XD

With Dominos RC scripts oblongs are fully supported... just define number of faces in X (256) and Y(4) (no subdivisions) and you have an oblong stick of that size ready for further sculpting or making multi sculpties out of it...

Bake is as easy: just render -> "bake secnd life sculpties".
texturing is not a big deal either if you know how to texturise "standard sculpties"...
But you will need dominos scripts to get it to your fingertips...

I thought you had those scripts allready at work, Keira ???

I do (Though I had to switch to RC for oblongs). I was trying without it, at first, and attempting various sizes of sculpt without getting 1024 faces.

I found this post, though:

And used the 32x2, multires 2 to get my sculpt... and that ended up giving me a 16x256 sculpt map, and the object itself had 1034 (Or so) faces, which confused me.

Either way, I know how to get it now ^-^

hmm... The part where the sculpt map size is calculated keeps me in a constant state of uncertainty but i can get the expected results when i skip multires. e.g. i can create a very long oblong with the numbers stated above and 0 level of subdevide:

4 x faces
256 y faces
0 subdivision

it is basically a very long brick with 4 sides. and the sculptmap will be of size
8 * 512 where 8 is the width...

here are 85 pyramids ... made out of one sculpt.:


And i am sure, you can get many more separated objects when triangles are used

Yep... I was just sent a 128-section sculpt in SL, all triangles. Useless as anything, but interesting to see!

That was from me. It's 128 solid tetrahedra, not just flat triangles. It's evolution is mentioned in another very long complicated thread which I won't trouble anyone to read. I believe it is the maximum that can be achieved, for theoretical reasons, unless you allow the objects to touch. I can't explain how to make it because it was done by calculation, not with a 3D program, but it doesn't use any new principles.

I'd've said your name, but I'm paranoid about naming names, and figured you'd say something if you wanted it known

Anywho, I meant triangular faces, rather than just flat triangles, no idea why I didn't clarify. Thank you for that explanation, as well. I believe if I spent the time to work it out, I might be able to manage something similar (Though probably 2/3 of that at max, estimation) within a 3d program, but unsure. Wouldn't be easy, for sure, and would take me forever .__.

Anywho, maybe someday I'll bother to learn mathematical sculpting, if only to understand it better.