Data storage via llHTTPRequest -- Beta

Is this seen by Linden Labs as a preferred mechanism for non-volatile storage?

Will Linden Labs be providing a Labs supported server for this, since one of the big advantages of content in SL is that you DON'T need to worry about the creator or maintainer of a project staying in SL? I have a number of products I've bought where the creator is long gone, but I can still keep them and use them... as opposed to the Blue Mars model where products may stop working when the creator leaves BM or shuts down their shop or city.

There is something more viable now days with the advent of the many free cloud computing services.

Check out this thread for an example of a data storage/retrieval system using Google App Engine. In this instance it's being used for storing URLs for HTTP-IN to create a dynamic DNS system, but it could be adopted to store any kind of data for pretty much anything.

/54/33/323981/1.html

Even if the person running the operation is getting it for free, they have to maintain and support it. If they stop, then I'm Played For Sure. Or, if you prefer, OnRezzed.

Even if they're stored in prims in a region in SL, it still changes the character of the product.

If this kind of mechanism is to be used for anything critical to a product, whatever it's supporting is as critical as the asset server itself, and I'd rather have it managed by the same people.

Certainly it's true to an extent, although assuming none of the basics of the service changed, it *should* be able to continue on without intervention for 'a very long time' (tm)

But nothing ever stays the same for long in the online world I suppose.

Yeh, there's ordinary years, then there's dog years, then there's Internet Time.

these are the reasons I roll my own, on everything.

I don't care how you roll, but if your products depend on any services you need to keep rolling, I ain't buying them.

lol nope! the only services my products require are a couple that depend on linden stuff, and one that depends on google ;o) I figure if google goes, we're all goin anyway, and if the lindens quit, doesn't much matter anyway. By roll my own I meant all the other stuff..my personal stuff and the systems I use for my business, not products for others.

What happens when google changes their API, as they tend to do?

lol i fix it! Gotta keep things interesting ;o) nah, in seriousness, I do fix it though. what can you do? people wanna watch youtube, gotta depend on google.

What total nonsense!

Scripts stop working as designed for all sorts of reasons on SL, remember WarpPos? Remember the introduction of Mono and all the scripts that stopped working?? If the creator of those scripts is no longer in SL then you are screwed, unless the script is mod, which is usually NOT the case.

"The Blue Mars model"...'products may stop working" where are you getting this info from, or are you just making it up as you go along?

Rock

WarpPos still works. It was broken, briefly, and Linden Labs fixed it. Which was going beyond the call of duty, in my opinion, considering that it's an undocumented API.

None. They kept the LSL scripting engine: unless you recompiled the scripts as mono (which you can only do if you can edit and modify them) Mono had no effect at all. Are you confusing Mono with Havok4? Linden Labs spent months after the Havok4 intro trying to fix all the scripts and about the only one that was completely broken was Siggy's swimmer.

The Blue Mars FAQ says that scripts are available for city developers. If the city shuts down, what happens to content that depends on those scripts?

None, for Mono??? Try this for a history of Mono issues,



a number of which are still unresolved.

Andy Enfield of Hippo rental systems had to post fixes and updates several times after Mono was introduced, and he switched to it, and problems then began to surface (I know, I got them). Who would have done that if he had left SL? In my rental business I also had problems with teleporter systems, security systems, etc, etc, not working. In the case of the security system the creator had left SL, so I had to buy anew. In the case of the teleporter the creator was still around and working hard to provide alternate working scripts.

Are you really saying that there has never been a script failure, that LL have not eventually fixed themselves, without a script-writer ever having to create a workaround or bug fix themselves? That there are no current 'script not working / command not working' Jira issues at all? That LL have undertaken never to deprecate any command? Wow, news indeed.

I wonder what the response would be if a question was raised in Resident Answers asking if anyone has ever bought a scripted object, that stopped working, and the creator was no longer in SL?

Havok 4 was another disaster as far as scripts are concerned. Of course, if you are in the position to just carry on without the affected scripts, until LL get around to fixing them, then fine. But many people depended on scripted objects for their SL business, and had to buy new working scripted objects to carry on, when absent original scriptwriters were not contactable (me included).

As for Blue Mars, all scripted 'objects' will will work, across the entire grid, regardless of whether any particular city is up or down, providing a city allows those objects (for example, some cities will may not allow guns, some may not allow vehicles, but that is also the case in SL). The only scripts that will no longer work grid-wide are those that relate to a particular city, ie the scripted rules for that city. If you have any evidence to the contrary I would like to see it, as I can raise this on the City Dev forum.

Rock

Please re-read what I wrote.

1. If he left SL, the servers his products depend on would have gone down.

2. If he left SL, he wouldn't have switched to Mono.

3. One of the "advantages" reported for Blue Mars is that a content creator can leave and pull their content completely. Scripted or not.
No. You're putting words into my mouth.

In many cases the answer has been "here's a free script you can download from the Library that does the same thing", an option that won't exist in Blue Mars.

Please provide a link supporting that claim, because the FAQ clearly states that scripting is for city owners specifically. There is no indication anywhere on the site that scripted objects independent of a city will even exist.

It is you who needs to reread.


People can leave AFTER they have switched to Mono, you know.


No, I am not, if you reread what I wrote I asked 'Are you saying...', which is a question.


That is for the small percentage of people who use the SL forums, and for those in the forums there were just as many cases of 'you are screwed', and how do you add a another, working script, to a non-mod object?

And again, where do you get this rubbish from about the availability of free scripts for BM? I am using free scripts right now (as I do not yet know how to script in LUA, so I use free ones).



Here is my link:



This is what the BlueMarsDev FAQ ACTUALLY says:



and for the second level group



In the above the powers of City developers are spelt out, and the second group only states what they CANNOT do.

"place geometry, manipulate the terrain, set up shops and residences, offer games, create custom interfaces and scripts, and set the content permissions for the City'

minus

'change the terrain or manipulate the content rules in the City where they belong'

you do the maths.

and for the third level group



This is not so clear, but BM have clarified to the devs in the dev forum (password-protected, so no link) that the 'items' that Content Creators can create include scripted items.

But to get back on track, and restating what you said:

I still say Total nonsense! Scripts stop working as designed for all sorts of reasons on SL, and if the creator is no longer around to give you an updated scripted object, you either have to wait, and hope, that LL will get around to fixing the problem with the script, which could (and has) taken months. Or, pay for another vendor/rental system/security system/teleporter/whatever for your business.

"Don't need to worry", give me a break.

Rock

If they leave after they switched to mono, then they're leaving after they fixed the bugs caused by the introduction of mono.


No, then I am not saying dot dot dot.


I don't buy non-mod objects. I don't recommend people buy non-mod objects.

You're a developer.

And BM needs to update their FAQ.

Total nonsense is interpreting "You don't need to worry about scripts breaking because of X" as "You don't need to worry about scripts breaking for any reason". You're like the people who say "I want to keep on using Internet Explorer because every operating system has problems".

being on the dev beta for BM and having read most of the documentation (including the public stuff) without going into methods or implementation (which would be very against the NDA I signed)....

each city will be self supporting, and not all items (particularly scripted ones) will work in all cities (it's up to the developer and the individual cities managers to support usage in different cities) unlike LL's model of items that work anywhere (with the small exception of no-script zones)

Mono itself did not break a single script, but rather affected the ability of those scripts to be compiled under the mono vm instead of the LSO (they still worked fine is compiled to LSO where the expected behavior remained).

at some future time LL intends to remove the LSO compiler (which can hopefully still be supported by 3rd party viewers, if the server code to accept it isn't removed)

other changes can be made, and may break scripts that previously functioned (jumpPos for instance will probably get broken) and if their developers are no longer around, and the scripts aren't open... well you're sol... but that's the same situation as upgrading to a new computer/OS and finding some old programs don't work albeit on a much more regular basis.

That is true Void. Many scripters, believing the hype about Mono, and the improvements it would bring, recompiled their scripts, and added them to their non-mod objects in vendors. Later, the complaints started to come in, unexpected behavior, scripts freezing, functionality that was there previously now missing..., etc, the Mono jiras started to climb and climb.

I get lifetime updates to many high ticket items in SL, and following the launch of Mono got quite a number, only to be followed by an avalanche of post fixes. Not a nice period.

Rock