The dangers of temp rezzers...

Just because something uses temp on rez objects doesn't make it a "temp rezzer" in the negative sense.

A "temp rezzer" only becomes a negative thing when it is being used to rez the same structure over and over again in order to bypass prim limits. In other words, when you are rezzing objects temp on rez that clearly are not supposed to be "temp" at all. Using temp on rez for bullets, scanners, and holo vendors is not a problem, as far as I'm aware.

Oh, and the Starax wand isn't broken by the temp on rez limits, unless you're trying to cast the really huge things on tiny land parcels. But do you really want to pull out handstand, majorrivals or tsunami in the middle of a domestic back yard?

An additional issue is that, some time ago, they borked something up in the simulator software which now causes a massive sim lag spike when you rez complex objects, whether they be temp or not. We use a single holoemitter in Cathedral to display the full-prim Dragon avs, and every time it is used, the sim goes into "deep think" for 5-15 seconds. It is a bit less of a hit when someone puts on one of the high-prim avatars, but still quite noticeable.

One thing they could do is limit the complexity of temp-on-rez objects themselves to something like "under 10 prims" (or the rez fails), and/or subject them to a tighter "grey goo" fence setting. Of course, that would break holovendors some, but holovendors obviously are part of the problem anyway.

If prims were really a problem, we would count the ones that people wear. My guess is that there are more tufts of prim hair in a sim then any other kind, not to mention armor.

Yeah: I've noticed that the arrival of a single new avatar into a sim swamps any effect of temp-rezzing hundreds of objects--although even that effect seems to be a spike in texture downloading and associated sim network load, not prims per se.

By the way, you'll see even less impact if the temp-rezzed objects are phantom. Although the sim has to pass the cached object coordinates to the clients, that's not a lot of traffic compared to even a few large textures.

In any case, it would take an awful lot of temp-rezzing to have 1% of the lag impact of a half-way busy business--the more successful of which might be worthy of an AR. *wink*

Oh, but they do, on a sim-wide basis. There's a limit of 15,000 prims in a sim, which does include the temp ones. They just don't show up on the seperate pieces of land. So what's effectively happening: temp-rezzers "borrow" the prims from whoever has them available in the sim (including themselves), and as a little bonus they have a nice laggy timer script running.

The trick temp-rezzers usually follow, is that they spawn a new temp-object about a second before the previous instance of that object is removed. So the temp rezzer will actually even take twice the objects' amount of prims from the total sim alotment, for 1 second every minute. Or about 20 minutes per day, if you like numbers.

Theoretically, you could own a completely empty parcel in a sim, and not be able to build there, because all those temp-rezzers keep taking your prims. I doubt this is just theory, I actually bet some people ran into this problem already, probably without knowing, since they could probably rez their object correctly a few seconds later (if it doesn't take too many prims)

And of course, some people like to put scripted objects into their temp rezzer. Or have a temp-rezzer-de-luxe, which also has a lag causing script that checks if an object is still there, and re-rezzes it in case the temp-time fell a bit short.

I dunno, but I think any sane sim-owner would forbid the use of temp-rezzers in his sims if he cares about his customers living in a nice area.

Should you have trouble rezzing objects on your own land because all your neighbours use temp-rezzers, then I suggest making yourself a perm-rezzer: an 1 prim object that tries to spawn perm prims on your land, or perhaps even the objects you actually want to put there, untill your prim limit is reached or the objects you want to place have been placed. Just a very annoying loop that doesn't stop untill it's rezzed what you want. And don't forget to LOL when your neighbours' house suddenly misses some parts, or if his lush garden is gone. ;D

When the sim is full, the temp-rezzers die faster.

That's exactly what I reported. A house with sections being endlessly temp-rezzed roughly every minute, which meant every 15 seconds or so for all the different temp-rez sections, each time dropping time dilation in the sim, and at worst (I guess when a couple of them synced at once) dropping it over 10 points.

Linden has no problem with it. I don't like it, but that's the official stance it seems.

There has been alot of discussions about temp rezzing and the SIM impact being "BAD", but I never saw any hard numbers to get a good idea what "BAD" equated to.

So here are some numbers for those who like numbers I was actually surprised by the impact on the SIM being measured. Im sure server class will have an effect on these numbers as well and should be kept in mind, as well as sets with multiple textures.

Experiment:
----------------
Periwinkle SIM
Ave FPS in sim during test: 44
Ave Time Dilation during test: 1.0
Link sets were made up of regular .5x.5x.5 spheres all with the same wood texture.
Data points are an average of about 50 rezzes each. (Script controlled)

(Sorry for those in the SIM when I did the large link sets )

Raw Data:
-------------
Prim Count | TD (Impact) | FPS (Impact) | Duration Impact (sec)
1 | 0.0085 | 0.231 | 0.5
5 | 0.034 | 0.573 | 1
10 | 0.062 | 1.08 | 1.12
20 | 0.135 | 2.261 | 1.4
40 | 0.248 | 4.84 | 1.51
80 | 0.414 | 9.93 | 1.99
160 | 0.583 | 21.9 | 2.16
248 | 0.716 | 36.6 | 2.38
496 | 0.822 | 35.5 | 3.4
992 | 0.837 | 37.47 | 5.7


Conclusions:
--------------
- Link sets being rezzed either by script or by hand over about 40 in size start to become noticable as FPS and Time-Dilation Lag.
- Houses and other structures can typically be ~200, and can cause a dramatic lag pulse.
- Link sets over about 225 hit a SIM/Server limit, anything beyond that starts to dramatical increase the lag duration along with the extreme lag amplitude.
- the "de-rez" of the temp link set appears to have little lag impact, just an observation and is not included in the actual data listed above.
- A scripter could potentially optimize this methodology to cause less noticable lag hits, but multiples in the same SIM can add up and become noticable again.

I have included this data in the form of graphs below as well.

Thanks,
-Phidian

I use temp rezzers and not only have I had any issues None of my neighbors complain, and yes I have asked. And I use them on a grand scale.

Infact the sim owner stated they could see no difference in their sim performance due to me using these either.


I am not seeing this arguement.

You may be rezzing linked sets totaling less than about 20 prims, below that amount in a single rez may go un-noticed.

If you have multiples they are likely all rezzing "out-of sync" which will distribute the rezzing over a larger time period and again go un-noticed. (specially if noone else in the sim is also temp-rezzing)

Do this experiment, make a linked set of say 200 spheres, have that object rezzed. watch the Time Dialtion spike every time the item is re-rezzed. Alot of people use this method to rez an entire structure in a linked set, the bigger the linked set, the bigger the impact.

I'm not entirely against it, I think if its implemented correctly and sparingly it could be useful and non-intrusive. But more often than not you get the scenareo where multiple property owners implement similar things which will add to the SIM's loading. Just be aware, if your sim starts getting little lag spikes on a repeating interval... pay close atention to the rezzers they are likely the #1 candidate to the cause.

-Phid

I am rezzing statues that are anywhere between 60 to 200 prims

Phantom, right?

It seems to depend on a lot of things imho. I have custom-made temp rezzers to serve as holo-displays that rotate through whatever set of items I've placed in it. 2 of these, one of which is cycling through the 'high-prim' items, while the other is going through the smaller stuff.

I have a 3rd that is rezzing a single 70ish prim item as well as a modified version of my temp rezzer that is utilized as a demo rezzer.

All things included that's 4 temp rezzers within a short distance of each other, 3 of which are constantly working on a 60sec timer. I've used these in several different locations for various lengths of time and I've never noticed much of an impact no matter which of my items I had them running on.

Sometimes I think it depends more on the nature of the item, like the person who posted previously regarding the use of them to create a jungle without wasting a ton of prims....I find a ton of trees and plants laggy anyway with all the alpha textures and such, but also most people program the items to self terminate instead of dying naturally, which my rezzers do not do (there's the occasional overlap or gap between rezzes, but it's so minor I've not cared enough to make it more seamless)

I think that multiple temp rezzers with many prims (more than 40 or 50 each) along with any internal scripts that also execute when rezzed will definitely cause lag.

"Not Noticiable"? Is that the same as standing around or that nobody is complaining?

I have actually watched questionable temp rezzers blinking their builds every 2 minutes, and when they re-rez, the Statistics Bar's Time Dilation, Sim FPS and Script Time sometimes go way off and other times have very little impact. When the temp rezzers tend to sync up the re-rezzes occur at close to the same time, it is very bad. Temp Rezzers near me are definitely impacting performance, and it is obvious if I observe the Statistic Bar for some time!

I own almost 22Ksqm of sim and spend 99% of time here (and I don't have a shortage of prim problem to "justify" using temp rezzer), and have never seen problems until temp rezzers arrived! They definitely cause problems if used in wrong way. If anything, the add to lag when lagging gets worse.

I went to look at some :: 2Xtreme :: corbusier furniture in world.

Owing to its intricacies, particularly the frame, the prim count is quite high -- about 30 minimum, upwards. To make the prim count fit into more homes, the maker -- tunes Meness -- appears to be building temp rezzers right into the furniture. The floating text says (spelling not mine):

"New, comming soon, Mart Stam furniture (1926). this line uses temprezz technologie fot the frame! chairs take only 8 prims and tables only 2 prims of your primcount!"

The furniture is very nice. But some may wish to talk their neighbours out of buying it. I remain suspicious about the impact of all this on my sim, and so steer clear of it. I understand, though, that there are those wave the issue away and say "no one's ever complained." I also understand that the lag in the sim where he has his main store, which makes walking through the store feel like wading through molasses with gravity boots on, may be owing to other causes, such as the 2 other AV's that were in the sim at the time. But still. Or maybe this is just a sign of what people want to do and want to buy, and that the underlying issue is really whether the underlying Linden Labs software will ultimately have the capacity to scale to it all.

This basically comes down to LL destroying functionality in order to stop the hackers, which means that more hacking will be required to do basic and normally straightforward tasks and complicate the lives of everyone.

A better solution might be just to allow sensing of temp objects. Since people can see temp objects, it must be possible to allow sensor to detect them.

As well, letting the sim owner get a count of temp objects and who owns them, would give them the ability to know who is abusing the sim. Then THEY can deal with person abusing their sim rather than having LL do it and screw everyone over.

After all, who does temp rezzers hurt most? The sim owner! they have the most interest in seeing it's costs. Maybe they should have some say in how to eliminate them.

And maybe, just possibly, a temp rezzer is a cheaper solution for some situations than a permament prim that hits the asset server. Again, only the sim owner would know in that situation.

I have been skimming over this thread
is it the amout of rezzez or prims rezzd that cause the most lag
would it be safe to use a temp rezzer with a single prim to rez but on a timer not a scanner then rerez , not trying to get the permenant effect like others do but need an effect on the rez of the temp object , the effect last after the prim dies so don't need it agian right away like most
and do combat sims not feel the crunch from all the guns rezzing bullets with die scripts