Deal with it or Buy mainland

I am amused by the reaction of all the people who are getting caught with more than just their Hands in the cookie jar..


As a semi noob.. even I understand the original intent of LL's Open Space Sims and can see that clearly the majority of people who are complaining about this somehow abused the system by treating these as cheap rental property that they can make more profit on.

I am sure that some even invested a lot of money and made big plans on how to get rich selling and renting OS as if they were regular sims...

To get straight to my point:


If you want cheap land - buy Mainland

I think that the recent trend of shifting all the rental businesses to these open space sims has been destroying the value of Mainland. If Mainland looks like its not working, SL looks like its not working.

Why would a new player who sees nothing but cheap yellow on the map and no people to interact with want to stay and play?

When I first started it was hard to find good land cheap and it was a challenge and there was a lot of activity - all the things that made this fun. Now for the last 6 months it appears that MAinland is virtually desserted. Everyone is probably out renting OS and spending all their time trying to figure out what their Landlords prim limit is that day.. and checking their Lost and found for items that didn't stick..

LL and those who are the big players need to help restore the most visible part of SL and by bringing the prices of these OS sims back to a realistic competitive price with the other products LL has made a good step towards accomplishing this. Now its up to the people who bought all these to make the right move.

Either deal with it - or Buy or Rent what is still the cheapest Land - Mainland ....

And if you are quitting because of this....Bye! See you in a week with a new name....


Edit: If you look at SL like if it were a restaurant...

A restaurant with 20 Seats and a Line out the door with people waiting for a table is more popular than a restaurant with 1000 seats and only 50 people sitting at tables...

funny and clueless at the same time

Have a nice second life and enjoy the view as you watch over half of second lifes land mass start to disapear.

nice to say it this way... i had other words in mind past days





so what?? all that privat estates with rentals? what would that change to our SL life?
Nothing, mainland is where it started, and mainland is where the real SL is alive.
My av here is only recent, but i'm on SL for some years now, and always it's going down when prices change when you believe the ones who yell loudest...but surprise!!!!! it never went ...

Land Mass or little insignificant dots on the map?

I doubt Mainland will disappear unless new people join SL then see there are no people or no activity on the continents and then say this sucks and leave... then all of it will disappear.. and all of you will have to go out into the sunlight again.. haha

Nice new account. Your main one get banned or are you just that much a noobie.


You miss one big thing about this.. these are the very people that pump most of the money into second life. not just free accounts who's major source of income are the clubs they attend. These are the clubs they attend. These are the little cool places.. these are the people who open up their real wallets and put real money into this game, the ones that buy products, the same ones that sponcer the events.

15000 out of 26000 island sims having the price jacked up to twice of what mainlands pricing and you think thats not going to effect anything else..

15,000 1/4 sim properties mainland could not even possable handle that many people owning land.. there is only 5000 or so mainland sims total and most of them are already owned.

Here is a linden go buy a clue.

You burn 15000 players out of millions thats no big deal..

you burn 15000 people that invested almost 4 million USD and pay 1,125,000 USD a month... you going to feel the pinch...

TY Jini.

Its the knock on effect thats important with people leaving etc. We own a full sim and had an ocean sim yes as an ocean. We for one have dumped the OS sim scaled back spending in SL except for our full sim and have noticed a drop in the economy as my wife makes clothing here and sales are down.

After spending time on the mainland there is no way i would move back to the mainland, land prices are even L$1 per SQm cheaper than when i started back here in 2005 land then was L$3.5 avg. People will not move back to the mainland when we have to sell the full sim we will keep the accounts and just pop in to see friends and not continue to contribute to the economy and that my friend is what a lot of people are doing now.

You may not see the effects just now but you will over time i am certain of that. Enjoy your time on the mainland with the problems inherent to owning mainland and don't complain when someone sets a bot farm next to you and you can't access the wonderful mainland you purchased and I hope that people do not buy mainland as thats the way LL will eventually take notice when the only green dots on the mainland are bots

The OP apparently has no empathy for the plight of others. I rent on the mainland but can fully understand the anger and sadness that people are feeling. LL are greedy and this price hike will come back and bite them, I hope.

1. This is exactly the point! everyone is out on their Islands trying to compete with LL for Land Business.. which is funny if you think about it...

2. Maybe then LL will have to change their sales pitch to:

Come Join SL and go hide away on a private Island where you can buy land but not own it and pay more than you have to to someone with a better Business Model than our own....

I do plus I am just as affected by this and am looking at the big picture

Ah yes, the restaurant comparison - the line out the door - there because of word of mouth (as that is the only true success of any restaurant ... I should know, I used to own one). So it takes years to build the restaurant up to the point where people line up. Then it takes a few dissatisfied customers, who tell a few others, who tell a few more and then the press start giving it one star instead of four ... and hey presto! no line because that line found a new restaurant around the corner and are now lining up there!

Don't buy shares in Linden Labs!

Yes but LL created this monster and are now paying the consequences for there inactions in the past. LL owns something in the region of 5000 sims if they had of wanted to be in the land business they would have cleaned up the mainland years ago but they haven't and gone into the land game properly but they didn't as i don't think being landlords was ever in their remit.

They made the biggest mistake when they released OS years ago with no clear guidelines and then released the OS to be placed anywhere on the grid or maybe this was all planned as a way to raise income as is suggested in the thread in my sig, who knows eh?

All i know is a lot of people have had enough and are just scaling down here to use SL as the 3D chat room it is fast becoming. People have had enough, yes maybe LL will survive it but i believe enough damage has been done to make me rethink our position here and NO we are not here to make money, rent land out etc. I wouldn't do it with a company as unstable as LL. To us its just cheap advertising for our RL business but if it continues we will shut down after all its only pixels to me the fun as it was has gone from here and so time for brave new worlds, but as i have an old grandfathered premium account LL its still cheaper for me to stay annual premium but my wife is not renewing her annual acct when its due in June.

But we are just 2 people out of many but i have advised our 850 Member group here what we are doing and why and guess what? we have a lot of support and this support will spread across the grid over the coming months and eventually as has been said SL will become a ghost town full of bots as the real folks find other places to play.

Just my opinion tho

I think you misunderstand the function of private estates. They never have tried to compete with the mainland sales. Ever. What private estates offer is an alternative to the mess that the mainland is. There is no support if you are in the middle of being griefed on the mainland, in an estate, there is always either an estate manager, or the community that forms in the estates to help out. If you want to look at the city of New York, or Paris, if you want to look at Victoriana or just simple nice modern builds instead of someone's spinning flashing signs or 10m wourth of porn shots, an estate is the place to be. LL has tried to clean some of this up on the mainland, but it still looks like the bad end of a cat's litter box in the grand scheme of things. As for the "owning land" in a private estate, I own the property rites to a number of plots in a private estate, and I wouldn't change it for anything. I have done so for the last three years in the same sim set. I have also "owned" mainland, and dropped it faster than you can think because of it's wretched laggy operation and every time I turned around some ad plot was taken out, or some used car lot showed up. "Owning land rites" on a private estate is like owning a condominium. So, if you consider that valid, than owning land rights is equally as valid. Both mainland and private land appeal to different types of people, heck, even private land varies vastly as to who likes to be where. So it is not accurate to say that they compete in any way with mainland sales/rentals.

As for the open spaces, LL put out a product that had 1875 prims available, upped it to 3750 later. Then, though some few people misused this product, LL have decided to eliminate it, and replace it with what they are now calling an Open Space sim which has only 750 prims available for about $.10/prim. Firstly, how is this even usable? even open water one would like to use from time to time, perhaps a couple of friends in boats? Oops, max 10 users. So that would have to be a very small group. oops, only 750 prims. Unless the vehicles are attached, then the prim count would rapidly deminish. say 300 prims in unattached vechiles with 10 avs in. And then the script load, which will be capped. If, you had a little island with a few trees on it, that would eat up prims faster than you can count, as plants are quite prim heavy. Not a very useful product, though technically feasable. Oops, wait, then there is the price. Who in their right mind would pay THAT much??? Taking the sims back to their 1875 limit would have been a much better solution. The homestead sims seem a reasonable deal, exept that they are precisely what they are currently offering for... more... money.... The reality is that even those using OS sims as they were originally intended are getting burned mightily with this, as they will end up with either a fraction of the prims they once had for 66% increase in price, or they will have to pay more for the exact same product they already enjoy, with no upgrade in any way shape or form. So, I don't see this as a hand in the cookie jar sort of scenario.

Ok I am not sure about where the numbers come from but I believe you for argument's sake...

Here is the fun part:

In most cases - None of the people really "burned" by this policy contribute this money out of their pocket. The money comes from other people who pay them the money so they can then pay LL

If 15000 People leave SL and abandon their land - that will leave 100000 people homeless and " Landlordless" and then instead of paying you - they will have to pay LL or someone who hasn't quit.. The worst thing that can happen is that LL will gain more customers who then stop renting from 3rd parties. I doubt someone with a brain will quit SL just because a Estate Owner pulls the rug out from a tenant...they will just get smarter and more informed.. and then get more creative by going direct to the source.

(this is not directed at anyone is specific btw)




As long as Mainland is considered to be a cheap abandoned slum area - all of SL will look bad to the outside observer and potential new members. It took me a good 4-5 months to even figure out what Estates are and how they work.. and when I did, I realized that they are definetly not the main feature of SL. They are a good way to suck out the life of the main Game... so anybody who is pissed at LL for protecting the overall health of the world and economy as a whole by throtteling down on the competition from within..should adjust their gameplan to help out or step aside for those who can make it work....


Hopefully LL staff are listening to this will Do the right thing in any case!



I am VonGklugelstein Alter and I approved this Message

I agree, but as the other poster said.. it was probably a mistake to offer the open sims as a single product to begin with... Under any circumstances should those have not been allowed to be re-rented. Full priced Estates are not so much a problem. The pricing of these and the higher monthly makes them not as dangerous to the main Game's real estate activity. Bottom line is that the OS's were used to compete with Mainland and with Full priced Estates and the problem was out of control and had to be addressed. I am sure that the people who have been around for a long time know that already and will be glad when order is restored..

If anyone should be pissed at anyone it should be the people paying full price for Sims and then see them lose business to the people who used the OS's to flood the market with Rentals

I used to think that the addition of Mainland was the main reason for the decline in land Values.. but I am slowly starting to realize that the OS's had a huge impact.. specially if they were really selling like hot-cakes..

Here is a quote from another post:



and also the following from the same post:



This final part sums it up very well many of us are now fed up with LL and there is a massive loss of faith in the LL many of us knew and slowly but surely people will drift away to the brave new worlds and believe you me I am see it already with a lot of older members in new places. Im sure they as will I keep our accounts with LL but we will be on other grids more than SL and thats the sad thing, the faith lost in LL and nothing bar a complete reversal will start to mend that and as I have said even now if LL offered me back the OS ocean sim at $50 a month at the old prim limits i wouldn't take it as they have lost my faith in them.

That i think is the crux of the matter now.

I lost my faith when land that I paid 20 a meter for dumped to being worth less than 3... and I considered quitting ... but then I woke up and adjusted my strategy.. now I just need to get rid of all you Island owners to continue with my plan... hahahahaha

Every one talks about profit but so many who own or rent islands do so without ever making a profit or wanting to. A huge number of the OS are used to run roleplay games that depend on donations to keep afloat. These are run for the fun and enjoyment of the users who buy massive amounts of content from avatar needs to furnishings and landscaping, not to mention textrues and animations.

They are big spenders and will be hit hard by the price hike and, since most are none-profit games, they will have to cut back a lot.

This will spoil enjoyment for them for the roleplay islands all have a theme so they don't want to be overlooked by modern structures, etc. They need islands and open spaces for seascaping. Many form up in island clusters to create mini worlds set in a particular historical piriod or some fantasy SiFi existence.

They are being damaged by this price hike and none will want to transfer to mainland for obvious reasons.

As a long time supporter of role playing I know from those who I talk to that many are looking outward away from SL at the Open Simulator project as a possible alternative.

Linden Labs has proved themselves untrustworthy and whimful in its pricing. They have left people with no confidence in them. Why would you want to continue to invest when everything you work for, to create, will be ruined over night?

It takes a long time to develop roleplay games and you need to feel it is safe to do this work. And since most give their time, money and creativity for the love of the game how bad is it to take it away from them.

The vast majority spend money and never make profit. LL should think about that.

They are the people using the restaurant!

This does get tiresome but learn the history of the product. Learn what was said and what wasn't said. Learn how Linden Lab encouraged the growth of this product and sold it in a manner that lent itself to them being rented out by allowing them to be placed anywhere and removing the restriction to buy them 4 at a time.

That last part is rather interesting because even when they were purchased 4 at a time with less prims they were being rented out. That's a fact and it's a fact Linden Lab were fully aware of an indeed said they didn't forbid such usage.

Now the simple fact is that people who stay have fifty bucks less a month, that's fifty bucks less to spend in the "restaurant" you're talking about, there's a knock on effect for the whole grid here, there's only so much money to go around.

That is exactly the reason why LL needs to attract new premium users and as long as Mainland is a wasteland of cheap land - nobody will want to stay and put in an effort to invest the money to improve it..me included. The success of Estate Rentals depends on the Mainland being full and busy with activity. The only way to make Mainland better is to raise its value and fill it so then people can get tired of it and go rent Island Lots as an alternative. That is if they don't add 29 Million Meters of Mainland without there being a demand for it. Funny thing is that nobody complained about the high prices of land last winter. Everybody was too busy spending all the money they were making on flipping land and renting it .. whatever. I made more money from flipping one 1104 parcel in a nice neighborhood than half my land combined is worth now.. think about it ..

my only need to know the OS product is that it is hurting us all .. no matter what you do or say.

And even though it is probably wrong and bad biz for LL to do this.. they have no choice but to undo this ... and they are probably doing us all a favor by doing it sooner than later..

So, because you think that most people had renters pay for this, it's ok for the rest to be burned?

As for the title of this thread. Many people are dealing with it. I am. I also looked around at mainland. Decided I will go landless rather than live there again. Maybe if Linden cleans it up, I'll reconsider. But not if the price to buy is what I found in their new areas.

Firelight

I hate to disagree with you...but I will anyway.

I've been here eight months. I've owned Mainland land in two or three places. And you don't own your own land there, really, any more than you do if you buy/rent from the Estate owners.

The difference is management. The Estates have it and the Mainland doesn't.

I have now sold any land on the mainland I once owned and rent on one of the Estates. It is a 500% improvement in atmosphere alone. The Estate manager there is wonderful about keeping his tenants informed of changes, working to solve issues equitably on their behalf, and keeping the overall community as respectful and enjoyable as I had hoped 'official Linden Land' might be.

I'm paying more per month than I did to 'own' my own land and it's absolutely worth it for the improved environment. I guarantee the fact that Estate is trying to remain in Second Life for the tenants is the only reason I haven't decided to cut my losses and leave myself. I don't need the technological advantages SL has over OpenLifeGrid right now. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy to help *build* the community of OLG if I moved, provided there was a chance to see it become all that i loved about SL without falling into the same trap LL has.

But, if that Estate and community were to close or move to another grid, I *would* be "stupid enough to quit" SL as you put it. Linden Labs has nothing better to offer than what I've already found.

And I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

Mainland is Linden Lab's estate, you want better you have to pay more. Do you want mainland tier to go up?




Estate rentals don't need mainland to be full, estate land is five times as big as mainland, people are making a pretty clear choice of product there. That figure is a little misleading as it doesn't take into account business such as Sun and IBM and the educators but they won't touch mainland with a bargepole.




Consumers were complaining about it and there were plenty of complaints. Sure land flippers flipped but long term high priced mainland is not good for the grid as a whole.



People were complaining about the OS effect too, Linden Lab were too busy counting the dollars to give a damn. They should be taking responsibility, the product should be off the market right now, it should not be being sold. They fix it by applying a technical solution to a technical problem. Raising the price in this fashion is an extremely bad decision but I've complained often enough that Linden Lab don't think systemically and this is yet another glaring example of that.

I don't know how to break up the quotes so I will make numbers .. haha

1. Yes I would pay more tier for mainland if it will mean that more people will use it and treat it better. The recent policy changes have made a big difference - even I got a warning for a rotating For Sale Sign on the ground.. and its cleaning up nicely. All you have to do is get it to the point where it looks like it has a value and that there is business happening for others to want to get involved.

2. Wrong - Without mainland new users have no place to get a taste for wanting something better or different. And Corporate or Scholastic presences have nothing to do with this subject.

3. Few people engaged in this uproar and conversation could be called "consumers". Higher prices were more fun.. kinda like Playing monopoly with Houses and Hotels vs playing with mostly unowned properties that nobody wants to buy. Hmmm

4. I agree fully RIGHT NOW is better get it over with and do all the damage now - once people adjust they will forget and move on..

When I purchased my first land it was in front of a gorgeous water sanctuary. One I day logged it was a prison/military camp. Not to mention the my neighbor was upset because he owned each sides of my lot and I purchased it before he had a chance to obtain. Needless to say the little signs of harrassment was unfolding to try to get me to sell it cheap. Well I held on and eventually he settled on MY price.

My estate owner Jackson is great. As stated by a previous posting, I am kept informed and I receive impeccable customer service. You don't get that on mainland. Now I do own a mainland lot in a sim that is untainted by the issues that most mainlanders experience.

But I often go horseback riding there and would see some spotted areas of beauty amongst very horrible blighted areas.

So I am not knocking mainlanders but I respectfully ask that one don't knock OS owners either. Which I am. I wanted privacy and to be able to look out my window or stand in my front lawn and see beauty. Not some God-awful spinning sign of whatever. Or prim trash cluttered around me.

The OP concern iapparently s not building and investing in a community as so many good private estate owners are. His appears to be just buying and flipping. I am not knocking you if that is what your intent is. But don't down those who wanted a better way of life.