Wild mob is going on

I think, emotions here are boiling over a little bit too much. Take a cup of tea and watching this sub forum... it seems to be in medieval. Wild mobs are going around with forks and torches and burning down all what they find on the way, incited from some people who are frustrated with same situation. Thats i mean, not only their SL situation.
We all bear the consequences of world financial crisis. And SL/LL with raising of costs are now the punching bag. People pushing each other to demonstrate, boycott or take legal steps and burning down all which was created last years.

I know you are angry, feary or frustrated, but do you think not, thats going too far? You have demonstrate your position and let you now carry away from wild mob.

Keep cool, wait for statements from LindenLab! After publishing of proclamation they said nothing and people begin to conjecture and stampeding all other. I think some of that which was said are misunderstandings and it would be the right time that, CEO say some words about this crisis. But give him a moment for draw breath.
If someone would read this sub forum, he have to fear he could be lynched by the mob.

Currently it is not a discussion, its an drumhead court-martial!

Exactly what I´m thinking too. I think that its getting absurd, people calling Jack Linden a criminal and what to hang him and so on and so forth. I can understand that no one is willing to pay 50 more, but the current reactions are pretty over the top.

So yeah, Chill people and take a deep breath.

Don't kill the messenger. Linden Lab is not run by just one person. This decision was not made by one person alone.

I think Jack Linden is a bot. He has one thick skin

Well Michaela Kuhn, obviously you are not one of those who have to abandon you sims, your investment and your dream...

I wouldn't mind it so much if the mob was also out hunting the estate owners who have been abusing the openspace product...

I don't particularly like what LL has done here, not at all, but they're hardly the only ones to blame. Don't think I've seen any posts yet on tracking down and outting the estate owners which LL says have driven them to this pricing change.

Abuse what? When LL sold the OS, they sold them as they were, with the known limitations. LL never defined the term "light" sepecifically, nor did they instruct the customer or whomever on "light" usage. So the landowners are not to blame at all. Anyone who shouts "abuse!" must shout "abuse!" when a Ferrari sportscar driver goes faster than 60mph on an unrestricted race track, then.

Umm but they did indeed define "light" usage. Estate owners who were smarting from the tier increase for their estates automatically saw this as an opportunity to even the odds. A high risk opportunity since LL did define what they were meant for. In fact many Estate owners renting these OSR's billed them to the public as being as good as 1/4 of a normal sim which was misleading.

/me sighs..

From http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/09/21/information-about-openspaces-void-regions/


From https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4235 , titled "Information about Openspaces (Void Regions)", which, BTW, is directly linked to from the land store:


I also hear it's mentioned when you buy a new openspace sim but I can't get that far, not being an estate owner.

So..

Show me where. And please don´t show me the word "Light". This could be a silvery moon which suddenly explodes for no obvious reason. Where is "light" defined exactly (prim usage, script restrictions, whatever?)

Did you look for yourself?

Do/did you own openspace sims and, if so, how much time did you spend researching what they are?

From the blog 2 years ago...





Plus it is in the KB as well which can be accessed by clicking on the open space region graphic on the land store front page. Sorry but it is as plain as day and just because they chose to ignore it or rationalize using them against what was recommended does not let them off the hook for responsibility to those that rented from them.

"As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way."

This is not an exact definition and clear restriction by words. It is a vague characterisation which can be interpreted this or any other way. Not to "advise" people does not imply disallowance at all. No way for bailing out there, LL. If they wanted only "boating and forest" sims, why do they offer fully capable server software there? Ridiculous.

And...they promised "not to react on performance issue reports".

I guess this is exactly what they do now - with this silly announcement. I only hope they´ll change their mind and save the situation by grandfathering. Anything else would harm SL way too much.

(disclaimer, i only own a couple of mainland plots so have no personal/financial invested in voidsims...)

thanks for digging that light-use description up; exactly what's been on my mind since the announcement, but i couldn't remember the precise wording...

:0 (/me opens big mouth here) i think that, at the time, the lab did not properly consider that, by defining usage for certain kinds of sims, they would have to get into 'regulation/monitoring' of the usage of such regions to be sure they were within guidelines. (lol sl's famed libertarian crowd shudders in response...)

seem to me that, with different guidelines for different types of sims, would mean a) the lab would have to monitor these regions then charge based upon usage, or b) 'try to keep hands off' about it, but yet have to raise everyone's rent.

at the time, they figured everybody -would- stay within stated guidelines; unfortunately they found out it's like any other product thievery - someone no matter what -will- take advantage of whatever they can get away with.

i feel very bad for those 'right-reasoned' landowners who've invested in the program in good faith; i think it really is an excellent way to expand the grid. if there were a way for the lab to program and enforce proper usage, i'd be all for it, but i also presume that they've thought of that and had to discard it for one reason or another...

This is exactly what worries me. That lynch mob’s will start persecuting people that innocently bought these OS Sims. When I read up on the Open space Sims at the LL website a few weeks ago...what was stated there is not what is up there now. It did say light building was ok but unfortunately, I did not think to take a screenshot of it.

And I have read several examples where LL themselves are one of the biggest abusers of the OS policies. If LL did not want those SIMs used...they should not have sold them...period! And someone should have put a stop to selling them weeks ago...there is no excuse for them continuing to sell these Sims if they knew they were raising the price..or they should have explained that.

They have made what…I read in a Jira at least 4.4 Million US dollars in setup fees alone for these Sims in the last 6 months. Not including the millions more in tiers they have already collected. That is why they did NOT stop the sale of these Sims. In my book...they are the only abusers here...of many innocent OS Sim buyers and renters.

And you want hanging mobs going after SL residents? This is what LL is doing to its residents..turning them bitter, hurt, angry and now turning residents against each other. Just the way they announced it and then inviting a discussion they don’t even bother to answer shows the total lack of respect for its own customer base. Please do not encourage lynch mobs on top of this fiascal they have caused…aren’t things bad enough?

Seems LL's martial statement is to ban people peacefully standing in welcome areas and talking about this issue.

Reminds me to the chinese way to solve problems.

This is partly true.

They did NOT clearly define "light usage". The website where you placed the order talked about performance and said that if you over used your sim (tho there was no definition of where that boundary was), that you *might* have performance problems and that they would not support any requests for assistance with those performance problems. That was the whole total of the disclosure (along with the statement that you would share a cpu with three other open spaces, there was no mention of there being 4 cpu's per server and no quantitative comparison between a 'normal' sim and an open space sim beyond the prim allowance. Most SL residents would assume the lower prim allowance compensated for the cpu as most SL residents don't understand sim performance and how things like scripts, textures, avie counts views across sim boundaries, etc., can effect sim performance.

I completely agree that estate owners who advertised them as being as good as 1/4 of a normal sim were misleading their renters. Some were even billing them as lag free when in fact they have four times the potential for lag (because you share machine resources with 15 other sims rather than only 3 other sims). Yes, those estate owners were either stupid or dishonest and should be held accountable to their renters.

But I bought my open spaces with a FULL UNDERSTANDING of their limitations and every intent to use them as open spaces. Why am I being painted (and punished) with that same brush?

Think about it . . . the only folks who have any real chance to continue to afford their open space are those who were abusing them. Those of us who used them as intended have no income from them and would have to pay the increase out of our pockets with no hope for recovery. We invested in the SL community and we are losing our investment while those who used them as a cheap business opportunity have income to cover the increased cost. They won't though because their profit motive just vanished.

We have two open sims as well..and we have put rentals on them..two on each one and the rest of the land?..rivers, streams, mountains, some of the prettiest in SL if I may say so myself..

Do we make money on this? Of course not ..but come to our place Jack..see it..hear it..see people canoeing down the river or riding through the mountain trails and tell me then we are "ABUSING" anything.

I think a lot of the "pitchfork" responses are due to LLs silence or lack of discussion with us.

Plus the fact that there are 10s of thousands of new OS sims on the grid and No real definition of "light use".

Some of us are guessing at what "light use" means, but IMO the doubling of prims to 3750 confuses the issue.

Alisha

They're likely waiting for the noise to settle a little. Maybe they're also talking about the (few) rational ideas that have been brought up, too.


Yes. Well, except what's said in the blog, the KB, the land store and what many people here in the forums can tell you. Aside from that, there really isn't any info.

Yes. Well, except what's said in the blog, the KB, the land store and what many people here in the forums can tell you. Aside from that, there really isn't any info.

Of course that is there, but it still does not define "light use".

It could say something along the lines of ___ this much script time is acceptable
___ this many AVs at a time
___ this much traffic is acceptable


If they planned on us keeping them empty, why add more prims? This was a marketing trick....

If you manage your parcel well there is no problems with sim performance on the openspace sims, even with avatars and scripts...I have had worse problems on mainland, infact i can't recall any lag issues on the 1/4 openspace sim i rent, but i manage it well and don't have anything that causes excessive lag, like badly sized multicoloured textures, rotation scripts and listening scripts etc..
I think that the openspace sims perform just fine and a lot of people have realised this and seen the potential in moving to them. The "guidelines" for useage are just that, suggestions, not rules.
I doubt that rogue landowners are causing terrible strain on the servers by renting them out for multiple uses. This is just another way to screw some dollars out of a system that was in my view beneficial to SL. It is already a rich persons playground and this move just excludes so many people who don't want to throw away their hard earned money on cartoon property and would rather seek a more viable option.
This is another push towards the diaspora of the digital avant garde...sighs

Oh thats not right. I have no OS Sim thats right, but at last year we have lost much more as a single raising of tierfee.
It starts with ban of gambling. We had a little casino which payed more as one sim. And we had invest the money for community, parks, chillout zones and so on. With ban of gambling we had to pay this from our own moneybag.
After that LindenLab initate the VAT for europeans. That means, our costs generally 19% higher than americans. This effects shop and land prices too. Many people changed their locations to sims which have cheaper prices, without VAT and we are punished twice. Also this was an unfair competition.
At next step, LindenLab included this new search algorithm and crashed another business domain, because we have sold camper tools which people from japan to brasilian used. Only this stupid search had cost us some thousands US$.
After that german press reported against SecondLife with flaming posts and LindenLab had done nothing. What do you think, how many real life customers jumped off from interisting in secondlife after they have heared that "secondlife is an placement of sodom and gomorah" and the new CEO said to Focus: "Dont invest your money...". This had cost us thousands of dollars, the time we spend into marketing, the nervs in days of proceedings with real life companies.
After that LindenLab dropped the setup prices from 1695 US$ to 1000 US$ and nearly halfed our investments. No one would pay us now 1700 US$ for a sim which he could bye for 1000. Do you think we get an adjustment payment? No, we hadnt.
And so on and so on, the list is very long over the time. Im the last of couple of people who are believed in this system, who is thinking what this could growing in future to an web 3D. I have lost many friends, relatives and acquaintances, which left SL from one day to an other.
I have builded few sims with heart and soul, invested my time for nothing and lost it, because people couldnt pay the high tierfee. All which is remaining from it, are my memories and some little photos. But it is so, like a mandala.

And im getting angry too, kicked the punsching bag, but never i wished someone to hang or named him criminal. And i know it will be only a question of time, then im willing going too from one day to an other and will never come back. But im going peaceful, clear all my stuff and let the system be which it is.

I understand the most of the peoples here more as you guess. But i think, it isnt the right way to cry, to insult and to blackmail. Business is business and grog is grog.
If you want to bargain something try to discuss with facts without insults.
That is what i mean, it is going to far.

Linden Labs needed quick cash - SO - doubled the prim counts available on open sims..which were a good deal for the price..and the tier fee

They got their money

Now they're going to screw us

easy..basic..crooked..thats the way they do business at LL.

Sure.. Now there's an unbiased opinion.

/me points to /invalid_link.html , which is Dianne's post history..

You've been renting out 10m m2 lots on openspaces, Diane?

...
Light-Use. Moderation. Equilibrium. Zen. Balance. Focus.
...

Somebody show me a software where you can't click on some of the buttons. Show me a car with a gear you can't use. Show me the house with a room where you can't enter.

Please. Let the mob be, superior creatures.


/me runs naked down the street screaming, fading into the burning horizon.