Voice and the Rights of the Deaf

personally i would care alot more if someone that will be effected by this was posting (as ive pointed out a cupple times already)

hey all, im going to go start a revolution in Honduras, i have a friend that was from there, and eventho they dont express their opinion on the country i have some level of pity for them and feel that i, someone who has absolutely no idea what it is like to be from that country, should go down there and overthrow their entire government because i need to feel important

heres my entire take on this post, if the friend was really concerned they should have posted, it would have made a better bleeding heart story coming from them, not some disassociated 3rd party

and since they didnt i can only assume 2 things

1 its not that important to them, because life will go on, and the majority of ppl here are already anti voice

2 they are unable to click a mouse and type on a keyboard themselves

its a null argument, cause either they just dont care or simply cant play SL anyway

Just to make a point about th ADA. I believe it really just adresses the work place and public areas. In additon, it states that reasonable accomodations ought to be made. I dont think the ADA is relevent here. BTW I againts voice for various reasons but the train has left the station and there is not much anyone of us can do about it.

IMO.

Regards,

DD

Can I request that folks consider voting for VWR-1983 on JIRA? ( https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1983 ) This is my proposal to allow voice users to choose to have text speech spoken by a speech synthesiser, so that their brains only need to follow one communication channel (sound) rather than both sound and text.

MANY people have difficulty with multiple communication channels at once. Even people who are good at multi-tasking usually mean that they are good at remembering where a task is and then coming back to it - not necessarily doing two tasks at exactly the same time, as is needed with voice and text. Several friends have told me they fould themselves ignoring texters while using voice in spite of them actively intending not to.

Point here is for many its a job on SL, but it also applies for barrer free envors for all not just job related as well. I know this because I have dealt with this in my rl and my job. ADA is a powerful group of people from around the world. I have used and applied ADA factors to Resource and Rl terms. Thats why i can speak out in this fashion.

Usagi

I am quite aware of the ADA quidelines myself. And my point was the reasonable accomodations need to be made in most circumstances. I dont see where in 2L this is being conflicted. If anything more options are being provide, not less. So I dont see how in any way ADA provisions apply.

Have you either applied or studied it formally? I am a interior design in rl. I have to understand ADA.........

I have, but since you are into interior design it is obvious that you are the clear authority on the legalities of this US legislation, which goes beyond just design issues. Please provide what provisions in the ADA apply here. I would really like to know.

I hate to say this...might be the wrong thing...but more than not..I turn my sound "off". I tire of hearing a squeaky childs voice in a womans body saying "tee hee thats funny"..I got tired of it..about the 1000 th time i heard it(two years ago). Yes the lil sound clips from manga avies saying "No U!"...or "Hi 2 u 2!!!!" in a broken asian amercian accent..only begin to grate on my nerves about the 50th time i've heard them in a day! No need to mention all the wonderful porn sound bites that pollute almost every Mature SIM in SL......constantly...daily...hourly..minute by minute.

I was attracted to SL for the "anonimity" factor (amongst other things **insert annoying porn sound here**) and I do NOT care to take anything from SL to RL..no webcams..no skype..no voice.If i wanted that..I would've kept my accounts at lava and american singles.Its Bad enough that virtual avatars are judged for choices of gender(or lack thereof)...clothing...color of skin..interpreted attractiveness...and so and so on bla bla bla...NOW I need to explain to people that "no..i have no intention of using voice...I have a southern accent that was always made fun as a child and im quite self consciouss about it."

What I think would be great..is to see a deaf resident take the initiative to bring a bit of their world into sl...and create a fully accurate series of signing gestures that coorelate and activate to typed text....like the babbler...but for sign language. I grew up with many deaf friends as a child..and personally believe that sign language is a beautiful art.(although it isn't an International language unfortunately)...So...the grass isn't always greener...with sight comes the curse of seeing people grow old...and with sound comes the curse of hearing some avatar in SL "farting".

I would like to tell all the deaf residents of SL though..not all hearing residents are clammering to install this "technology"from what ive heard its more trouble than it's worth) and there will still be a large population of people who have no use for voice in sl.(regardless of wether or not they ever perfect it) so rest assured. They will not be the only ones left out of "voice" conversations (if that ever would actually happen I really dont see it though)

Peace and love`Lana Tomba

Clearly, you aren't seeing the point. Whether or not my friend wrote this post himself is beside the point. I merely was reacting to my experience with Voice on SL, and thought this would be a good place to start a conversation regarding the impact of Voice on the hearing-impaired. As far as "bleeding heart" is concerned, I could have just as easily taken any reference to my friend out of the post, gone with how I feel personally, and none of my views would have changed. I was merely illustrating a point.

I don't know about you, but where I'm from, "friend" and "disassociated 3rd party" do not go together.

That said, thank you for taking the time to post your response. In the end, I'm glad to see some discussion arise from the post I made. That was the main objective.

-Hraef

I'm all for letting the deaf and blind have a battle over which communication method everybody should be forced to pay attention to. I'm more than happy to use either depending who I'm talking to but these threads are just silly.

are you hearing Impaired?...I think it's a valid point and concern to be made and discussed. Discussion and the sharing of common goals and ideas and thoughts about a topic can never be silly. If not to put the hearing impaired minds at ease...to encourage the creation process to include these folx even more.

I can understand how they can fear the feeling of being left out..it happens quite often to them in real life because hearing people are too lazy to read lips or learn the basic alphabet in sign language. Whatever they need to feel validated I'm all for it.It's quite logical for them to think "hey..if these people are talking...and i'm typing...are they going to include me in their convo?"

I've played MMORPGS with many deaf people...I've been on ventrillo(voice program) with my guild and was quite shocked to see and hear the intolerance that the hearing have of deaf people in general.

These good people need someone to stop and take the time to care..take the time to communicate..they're not emotionless or intellectual sub human beings for that matter. Trust me...I've seen it...Generally speaking..the hearing would rather pick out character flaws of a deaf person and choose not to communicate with them for that reason rather than the REAL one(the hearing are too D*** stupid and illiterate and lazy to learn and open their mind to a new process of thinking)

Please noone try trivializing this. It's a valid concern and I'm glad the thread was started.

~Lana Tomba

In which way? explain? I highly doubt it......

Rules and regulations is what at times i had or have to dealt with so I must understand . Have you have read the docs from the ADA they are pages and pages long atleast 3 ck think?? Or even Use them in a working sence? Again unless your in a field or are non able bodied you would understand. If you even had to follow guildlines with the ADA you would understand its not a easy as you think. Again the internet is a place where everyone is expert reguardsless of what their back ground is :/ . Thats why formal training is what counts.

Usagi

Lana has some good points, and at times i have or had turned off the background effect because it just gets bother sum. The issue of Deaf users is far greater then people saying they understand about this subject matter. Again LLABS fails to understand the possible user group in social aspect. Community? well well have a leadership of them.But really they have the less understanding of how and what should be done within the the SL. There is more to be a community lead then just holding meeting and placement people in roles and mentor etc.

This argument makes no sense. Whether we talk in Skype or in SL itself, the issue with the deaf argument is people saying they will be ignored. How would it be any different if we were using Skype? (Which I did before voice came into the picture) If I was ignoring people because I was talking in voice (intentionally or otherwise)...it wouldnt matter what program I used. Skype, SL, MSN, Yahoo...it doesnt matter. In fact, I think that takes MORE attention away from SL, when you have a whole other program to contend with and pay attention to, thats more time you're not looking at whats being texted....

I believe some people are using this thread to show suport for non voice. Even not knowing what the ral meaning of the thread.

Just answer my question!!! You were the one who said the ADA applies here. Just tell me how since you are the expert. I have a disability if you must know and franky I am offended when ever someone whips out the ADA at the drop of a hat. So tell me, how does ADDING voice violate the ADA?

The OPTION of voice allows people afflicted with poor vision to participate more easily in SL.

It also allows those with limited use of their hands to communicate better.

I find voice chat annoying, distracting and awkward... but for some it will be a welcome addition.

It's not about closing doors... it's about opening them.

The people coming through those doors may have difficulty communicating with some that enjoyed the text-only communication model that SL had... and there will be many that fall somewhere in between the extremes, but I still view this as a 'good thing'.

Nobody "WHIP" out ADA i said this in my past on the forum. So you ever looked at the ADA manual or REG/ outlines? Have you used it to support any causes you might have had? Have you buildt your person space that helps you live a better life? I explained that on the SL there are those that use the platform as a "JOB" The ADA is a set of law/ regulation that helps companies UNDERSTAND the rights and safe envir for the Non able bodied people. The ADA also protects those that ALSO USE envir for everday USE! VR is so complex and now those that do have real disabilites are finding roadblocks.
Do you understand some that have to understand ADA before they can even do their RL work? I have a background in Social/Behavior in Envir settings. I just did not "WHIP" out remarks without a understanding here.
If a person can`t speak? and don`t give me that they can usea voice generator voice simulation to do voice. How are others goign to look at this person that can`t speak with a voice? Or have some kind of phyical disabilty that provents them from using voice? LLABS should understand there are those that have RL speaking problems. If you see a sexy etc guy and then hear is voice which lowers your view on this person. how would you feel? The person talking to that person will ignore them and just think he is worthless or whatever.


A alt is an alt . in this case
Usagi

i never did, its too late its in the system



but the op was all about how it would effect the hearing impaired, infact thats the title of the post, not "my experiences with voice and my concern about the deaf"



3/4's of your post revolved around this friend, sorry im not a mind reader but i found them to be the main character in this crusade



well on the internet you never know just who you are really talking to, i have many "friends" on sl that ive never even seen, let alone know anything about other than what they choose to tell me in a total fantasy land

really you should be careful



its the same quibbling that appeared months ago when this was first announced, i thought we all reached some level of understanding about it all

True!

From the various sims I've hopped around on, I havent seen anything indicating people are using one over the other. Seems to be a mix. Or maybe the For/Against Voice folks are staying in the wrong places? I'm seeing both forms being used- text for some stuff, voice for others. Or maybe I'm just the most non-discriminating person around??

Ever notice, with some non-USA residents crying out "ME! ME ME It's all about Me & what I want." they start sounding more like an American??

This is true, but it should follow a larger scope of people with "limited" or range of usages .


Sad facts are it will CLOSE doors for some that have vocal problems and talking problems. Voice does not fit all here that well help them "hands to communicate better" . I think people tht understand the RL usage for those with less then abilites would agree. Voice is not the answer here. But it will help only a selected group. leaving out those that CAN NOT speak in rl..........

It is not as though they did away with type, they just added voice. I just don’t see how adding more ways to communicate violates the spirit of the law. As I said I am against voice for many reasons but I don’t see it violating the ADA.

Anyway, I am tired of your condescending attitude, so I am moving on.

I lost here and you never proved anything here...All you did was say ANSWER THE QUESTEN. I answered your questens and provided facts. Its little compared in what you have provided.





You provided nothing interms of infor here. "condescending attitude"? If you understand the ADA thats great! But don`t post here in a alt and try to attack me for understanding the ADA which i studied years about. I given you the facts you have "SOME understanding about the ADA"

I can't prove a negative. The burden of proof was yours not mine, since you said the ADA was applicable. I only asked HOW does it apply. And no you did not answer my question.


You have given very little in way of "facts". You STILL refuse to answer my basic point, which I have said a number of times now. How does adding new way to communicate violate the ADA??? They still have text for ppl that need that and now voice that may help pp that can use that method. As far as bad attutudes of individuals towards others, say in this case for not using voice, last time I checked this did not violate the law, no matter how borish.

ok proven you don`t know what your talking about............bye....