I am a game developer student doing a report essay on Second Life.
The question I pose here is like the age old question what came first the chicken or the egg... except I ask what began development first - Linden Lab's Second Life or Sony's Home service for PlayStation 3?
The reason I ask this is because Sony is sadly known for outrageous arrogant remarks in the media and when they were asked why Home resembles Second Life so much they replied that its basically their original idea because they had been suposedly developing it first long before Second Life. I found it a interesting topic because of the sudden popularity of interest from companies like Sony and Microsoft who are looking to expand their community into a social avatar enviroments like Second Life has successfully done. In the article on Three Speech <http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=588> they make it sound like they came up with concept model first due to online gaming and that it only resembles Second Life by looks - yet the more they discuss upcoming features like embedding virtual ecommerce and a 3D modeling engine for users to create models - it seems exactly like it, not superficially like they said.
It would really be nice if someone from the development team or any hardcore users could answer this for me. Hopefully I posted this in the right thread because I had no clue where to post this. Thanks.
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Sony claims their Home service came before Second Life? |
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-12-2007 14:33
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Predreus Twang
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10-12-2007 15:36
Not sure if it's correct, but Wikipedia says that Home's development started in 2005, while SL has been out since 2003. So going by that, it would seem like a lie
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Nyoko Salome
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Join date: 18 Jul 2005
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10-12-2007 15:50
having personally watched the progress on sl from, oh i think 2001 when i first heard of it?? i have to say to sony, 'complete b.s.'!!
 also the oft-quoted story about phillip having the proverbial 'idea in the shower' moment back in '99 or shortly prior. he also apparently had disparaging things to say about 'the matrix' in '99 when it was released ('it's not going to be like that!'), so... (wonders if mr. sony thought up 'the matrix' too?? _____________________
 Nyoko's Bodyoils @ Nyoko's Wears http://slurl.com/secondlife/Centaur/126/251/734/ http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/index.html "i don't spend nearly enough time on the holodeck. i should go there more often and relax." - deanna troi |
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Destiny Niles
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10-12-2007 16:47
3D web environments are not new. Look up VRML. I don't know if Sony had any hand in that. If so then they can take the claim of coming before SL.
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-12-2007 17:27
Thanks for the reply so far on this issue. The more I learn about the origins of this kind of platform... the more Sony seems to look silly. lol Keep them facts coming.
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Osgeld Barmy
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10-12-2007 18:09
sony home is a ps3 gimick, and sony has never had an online community, infact besides neverquest sony doesnt even know the meaning of online entertainment (unless you count looking at grass and monster ass in SWG fun)
i still laugh every time i connect my psp, and all i get is a firmware update (rock on sony!) SL (officially) started its development in 1999 sony is full of crap |
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Usagi Musashi
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10-12-2007 20:50
I highly doubt that Sony said this, infact i seen some of the intros and demos and not once have sony said they are they first. There are situations of content that are a first with sony. But otherwise said, I like the sony`S concept and if they can make people switch that will help simulate VR world like SL to get better and better.
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-13-2007 17:58
I highly doubt that Sony said this, infact i seen some of the intros and demos and not once have sony said they are they first. There are situations of content that are a first with sony. But otherwise said, I like the sony`S concept and if they can make people switch that will help simulate VR world like SL to get better and better. Sony said it... here was one of the articles that had an interview with SCE execs last month Sept 11th 2007. <http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=588> Q: Again, that’s quite Second Life-like. How much of an influence was Second Life? JM: When we started work on this, Second Life didn’t exist. Our motivation, originally, right from the word go, was that we fed up with going into online games for five seconds before dying, and we thought there must be a better, more congenial way of leading an online existence. That was what prompted us to start developing what has turned out to be PlayStation Home. So, it’s certainly not Second Life. Q: And there’s the crucial difference that in Home, the environment is fixed and unhackable, whereas most of the worst aspects of Second Life stem from being able to, for example, launch great shoals of flying penises into the environment. PE: Yes. I think that’s something that, conversely, they’re a bit proud of – the fact that it’s a bit of a Wild West environment. And if that floats your boat, it can be very appealing. But it’s the obvious thing to do, to make comparisons between Home and Second Life, and it’s understandable that people would do that, as they are quite similar, superficially. But Home has been in development for quite a long time, and its roots came from online gaming rather than social networking, and the social networking aspect has grown from that. But Second Life has hardware issues, as obviously it’s PC-based and has to cater to the lowest common denominator, and it’s not an easy thing to get up and running, whereas Home has been deliberately created to be something that anyone can get into. And because it’s on the PlayStation 3, we know the hardware everyone has, and we can exploit that to the maximum. JM: And the other main thing is that, apart from the whole Wild West scenario, Second Life is kind of a solitary activity, although you’re in an environment where there are other people – but where you are, it’s a solitary activity. Whereas with the PlayStation 3, Home is under the TV, and you’re there, probably with other people, enjoying the experience as a whole. Although there’s only one of you walking around on-screen, it’s more of a family activity. This is why I am researching for further proof if this was originally their idea or if they are spinning the facts to detour all the comparisons people are making to Second Life just so that their loyal fan base can go around taking it out of context saying... "Second Life was Sony's idea!" Which is already happening, there are threads on the Sony boards claiming Microsoft and Linden Labs are ripping Sony's concept. So really I am just exploring the facts. In a nut shell from what I am researching, it seems Sony is basically stating their Home service is not like Second Life at all, just by looks, but when they explain all of Home's features - their black pot resembles the kettle. My professor found it a very interesting part of the essay to write (mostly because he is apparently a Second Lifer), so that is why I am pursuing it. Again its for a college graded essay as stated in the original post or it would be foolish to base all of this on pure assumptions with no cited sources.  |
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Usagi Musashi
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10-13-2007 19:19
I said this again, there are part of the UI of Sony`s cconcept LLABS can`t go up with. SL is a game where we have many intersting actions gesters, objects being created in a wide range of fun and enjoyment. But Sony`s concept seems to be a possible expantion of the fathering of how far graphics can be taken. Their physics seems to be a little more advance for where they stand as a start of their concept. Hopely LLABS will stop being so dead when introducing better workable physics etc......... I believe what Sony is trying to say is they had a forsight of the future before the other VR worlds existed. Frankly I would love to see a Windows version of world. I am not a Sony produce liker. But this concept world seems to have apossibilty of creating a war between the VR worlds.
Usagi |
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Colette Meiji
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10-13-2007 20:38
Sounds more like the case that the clueless at Sony had never heard of Second Life when they started working on "Home" thats all.
Wouldn't expect a master of corporate double-speak to admit that. |
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Johan Laurasia
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10-13-2007 20:46
Sony is simply dodging the obvious real answer, which is: "because Second Life is the model for Sony Home". Second Life by far wasnt the first, just the first successful 3D social network. Second Life's combination of a 3d world, economic connection to users, and open ended model is why Sony is doing their best to copy the success of Second Life. From what I hear, Linden Lab was formed in '99 and went live in '01. How Sony could possibly think anyone would buy the idea that they were developing a networked 3d social environment back in 99 when the PS2 was being announced. The simplistic games that initially were released when the PS2 came out in 2000 were barely better than PS1 games. It took a few years for developers to get a grip on the new hardware and come out with applications that took full advantage of the newer hardware. Are they saying that they were developing software 2 generations ahead of where they were back in 99? Gimme a break.
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Usagi Musashi
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10-13-2007 21:10
Sony is simply dodging the obvious real answer, which is: "because Second Life is the model for Sony Home". . Second Life did come before Sony`s concept. Thats no doubt if sony believe they have dev the concept before Second Life ( which I hightly doubt ). Sony is foolish ( but even sony knows LLABS concept came before their own ). Again I don`t believe Sony even would refer to being first. As I said i seen many or the promo and not once did i see any referance to it. Usagi |
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-13-2007 21:33
Yeah, when you do watch all press videos they have been careful not to mention when it really began development date wise or discussing any comparisons to Second Life at GDC, E3, TGS - thats why when I saw this article from a site I never heard of with these quotes, it was the first statement of Home's apparent origins from the suits.
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Usagi Musashi
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10-13-2007 21:38
Frankly speaking I don`t think Sony really cares if second life came before them. Ifs no doubt they were inworld and studied Second Life. But if Sony did feel Second Life was a threat they would do a PR thing to go up with LLABS. But really This is a PS3 system format. LLAbs really doesnt have anything to worry about , and neither does Sony. Bt If Sony does try the PC verion there might be a fight between the two.
BTW i very intersted in Sony`s concept and if i can do it i will try this platform, Why not looks fun Usagi |
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-13-2007 23:33
Oh no doubt, I have a PS3 as well and am excited for Home. I just get amazed sometimes at the stuff Sony execs say, just blows my mind sometimes. lol
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Johan Laurasia
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10-13-2007 23:43
But it's not about who was first... the questions are about why Home is so similar to SL, it's Sony who's trying to imply they were in development before LL, which is false. If that were the case, why is Home still in development and SL has been online for 6 years? Sony is simply trying to imply they've been in development longer to imply that LL has copied Sony, which is rediculous.
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Zaloran Okawa
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10-13-2007 23:54
But it's not about who was first... the questions are about why Home is so similar to SL, it's Sony who's trying to imply they were in development before LL, which is false. If that were the case, why is Home still in development and SL has been online for 6 years? Sony is simply trying to imply they've been in development longer to imply that LL has copied Sony, which is rediculous. That is true, thats why the comments smelled fishy. If they have been in development long before SL, but yet Home keeps continually being delayed (now until Spring 08 with an open beta this Nov/Dec) it doesn't make any sense. If SL took this long to get developed then you would think it put their development further out before 1999. It seems like Sony is just reading LL's playbook while trying to take the credit. Thats what bugged me about it. It could be worse, since Microsoft is looking to create their own 3D console enviroment to include in their console operation system - they could just buy LL into their MS Game Studios and use SL. lol |
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Wise Clapsaddle
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10-14-2007 18:09
I dont really thinks its a case of which product started out first or even which product is the most advanced. Second life appeals to a broader market (still rather niche) and the sony ps3 home platform will cater to gamers who have had a great gaming session, give them somewhere other than a table to boast their achievements and from what i know hang out and chat between games or after them for discussion on how things went in a clan battle for instance.
It is likely geared toward a different market of more hardcore gamers who might not get the point of something like second life, and might bring them into the 3d social environment that way. I think it's best not to see it as a competition but more a step forward for virtual environments. It is nice to see more mainstream companies such as sony and IBM really starting to back virtual worlds and hopefully with that will come great leaps for those of us who enjoy the alternate realities on our computers. On the OP id agree that the SL concept probably came first, and even if it didnt then LL implemented it far sooner, got more financial backing and did a better and quicker job of getting their version live before sony. Good thread |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
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oh please!
10-14-2007 20:02
Please stop bashing my cousins from the mainland. I am sure it is a matter of translation and intent. I would think that Sony has been working with 3D a lot longer than Linden Labs. I believe this is what the person from Sony was referring about. They were working with 3D games in the 90s.
I saw something on TV about competition to SL that will be based in Japan and without the chaos. I am so tired of the griefers in SL. I am so tired of the bugs in SL. I am so tired of the uncontrolled chaos of SL. I was watching the news and think it was on JNN. |
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Usagi Musashi
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10-14-2007 21:33
Oh no doubt, I have a PS3 as well and am excited for Home. I just get amazed sometimes at the stuff Sony execs say, just blows my mind sometimes. lol PS3 and i believe the PSP wil be able to access. I love to try this for my self. maybe i will hehe |
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Osgeld Barmy
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10-14-2007 22:58
ugh psp nightmare, since they killed the keyboard attachment in the states (among other places)
probally only works on the new slim psp also, since it got a 32mb memory boost |
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Osgeld Barmy
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10-14-2007 23:03
I saw something on TV about competition to SL that will be based in Japan and without the chaos. I am so tired of the griefers in SL. I am so tired of the bugs in SL. I am so tired of the uncontrolled chaos of SL. I was watching the news and think it was on JNN. you control chaos by limiting users, thats the difference tween SL and most other 3d world things while there will probably be a ton of content for home, you cant make your own doohicky fingers crossed they will release a toolkit and let you submit content to them for approval, but given their vicious war against the home brew community i wont be holding my breath |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
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10-15-2007 03:08
you control chaos by limiting users, thats the difference tween SL and most other 3d world things while there will probably be a ton of content for home, you cant make your own doohicky fingers crossed they will release a toolkit and let you submit content to them for approval, but given their vicious war against the home brew community i wont be holding my breath If this is true ready to make the switch to a Japanese style system. I am tired of paying for the freeloading good for nothings. |
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Mhaijik Guillaume
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Virtual Worlds online go way back
10-15-2007 07:43
Quoting Usagi Musashi "I believe what Sony is trying to say is they had a forsight of the future before the other VR worlds existed. Frankly I would love to see a Windows version of world."
Way back in time the first virtual world I am aware of was Habitat see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitat_(video_game) Here you created an avatar and interacted with people around the world, 2D but a world. And then came along WorldsAway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldsAway SAme you created an avatar interacted with people around the world and shopped, 2D but still a world. I still have friends from WA, some are here in SL now. Along those same lines around the same time there was also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImagiNation_Network You created a persona with a face, interacted with people around the world, played games etc. These were not 3D, but very much virtual worlds with commerce and friendships. _____________________
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Draco18s Majestic
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10-15-2007 09:02
Then there's FurCadia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furcadia For all the non-human users out there. Also 2D graphics (an isometric world), and also released early 90's. Still running too, but I'd never play. They charge REAL money (and gobs of it) for anything I'd want *cough, dragon avatar, cough, $299 to have it forever*. |
