Broadly offensive?

According to a recent blog by Linden Lab: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/31/keeping-second-life-safe-together/

"depictions of sexual violence including rape, real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content are never allowed or tolerated within Second Life."

Linden Lab you will burn us all at the cross after we have fed and clothed you and paid your bills... you will take our digital land which doesn't exist in the first place and send us into exile.. no more BDSM, no more blood baths or Goth or Gor, Cross Dressers, Lesbian or Gay or anything less than prim, proper and perfect "christian" behaviour.

There goes the economy.. haha.. you should lock the pixel doors now because you just committed virtual suicide whether you realize it or not.

YES, get rid of the simulated child pornagrphy something that I am totally against WITHOUT destroying the world altogether OR do you need to kill us all in order to justify the other? Two birds with one stone..haha.. thanks.

What about those of us on private islands, does this crap effect us too or what? Yeah I said crap.. sorry.. but this is how I see it.

Most of come here to escape and we need this.. as for me I love the Goth look.. or violent or whatever you want to call it.. I love the whole feel of it.. I love some of the BDSM too.. it's great. Simulated rape play is nice too..sometimes.. the whole feel of losing oneself and letting it all go.. but hey, I'm just that twisted in my mind. I'm sure I'm not the only one.. I love the blood and the image of death.. so maybe I'm a little sick, who knows.

It is about dark expression, art and even life... poetry of the mind. This creativity that you claim to protect is my outlet as it is many others.. for me it helps to release the demons so that I can write.. create.. even breathe and I speak as a writer, artist, musician... and also human.

I protest this act of ignorance on the part of Linden Lab and will wear my cut goth skin made by Munchflower proudly. I refuse to be forced into the holographic underground when we pay 300 USD + (Also other land fees, premium fees, etc) a month for something which only exists in our minds.

For those of you witch hunters out there, yeah I'm one of "those" too.. I guess my pagan alter is forbidden also? haha Funny.

Define your terms rather than throw some broadly loose rules at us that basically can be interpreted by the user at whim. One day broadly offensive can mean no male avis with long hair or another day, no dark skinned avis or another day no bi-racial couple avis.. BE clear.

By the way, I personally find it offensive to see avis with the perfect tan or builds poorly created or horrible textures without taste.. give me some time to create my list and I'll give you more.

According to Linden Lab.. we need to keep it safe by reporting that which is broadly offensive: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/31/keeping-second-life-safe-together/

"Please help us to keep Second Life a safe and welcoming space by continuing to notify Linden Lab about locations in-world that are violating our Community Standards regarding broadly offensive and potentially illegal content. Our team monitors such notification 24-hours a day, seven-days a week. Individuals and groups promoting or providing such content and activities will be swiftly met with a variety of sanctions, including termination of accounts, closure of groups, removal of content, and loss of land. It’s up to all of us to make sure Second Life remains a safe and welcoming haven of creativity and social vision."

To help keep SecondLife safe, I'll do my civic duty by reporting myself first and you know where to find me Linden Lab.. because I'm not a borg and I refuse to conform to this nonsense...

I'm guilty of the following crimes:

Having these two images in my profile of my avi Vryl Valkyrie:
www.vryl.eu/forbidden1.jpg
www.vryl.eu/forbidden2.jpg

Being Goth, being into vampirism, wearing goth skin sometimes, such as cut, bleeding, etc.. having bloodbaths and even having BDSM items in my inventory.. having goth clothes which could also be seen as violent or graphic, etc.. Sometimes wearing sexy clothes which could be seen as broadly offensive.. having torture items for my medieval castle dungeon.... having friends who are gay, lesbian, of other races than myself, furry friends, being witchy and yes having virtual sex...cursing and just too many things to list..

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

This is a typically sit on the fence Linden reaction, because they can't comprehend why we didn't want to make us vunerable to wire fraud in their attepmt to 'clean up dodge'

Let make it safe

Yes lets

Let clear out the people who use the Grind to abuse children you'll have my backing 100%

Ohh yes the only reason their are children in the adult grid, is because their parents can't be bothered to take an interest in their own children.

ohh there maybe Adults in the teen grid, well thats purely down to the lindens not doing their job properly and making sure only minors got their in the first place.

So now we have this nonsense lets make it safe, lets get rid of offensive people

You know the newbs(sorry for the broad attack we we're all newbs once) the ones that just walk into you and shove you 20-30 meters and not even bother with a sorry, the ones that wander into your virtual home and then try to move your items around, or question you like you have no right to be there. Or lets make it safe against the griefers who cage people, who hack people, or just distrupt others enjoyment to forefill their own sad little agenda.

Linden labs you want to set rules then set rules tell US what YOU desided is acceptable in your grid, then police it to ensure the rules are not broken.

But, no you don't, you want residents to grass on eachother, to tell tales, on each other,

ohh so and so has a yogi bear custume and his virtual girl friend dresses up as Suzi bear, and they Yiff on weekends.. its so disgusting, I had to try really hard to get my veiwer into their house so I could see what was going on, because I don't have permissions to enter their land.

So basically what you've done is to let loose every small minded person who may at some point have a grudge against another resident and try to get them banned for something they don't really find offensive, but will say they do in the hopes of ruining that persons enjoyment and costing them the friends they have made here.

Yet again Linden labs you've put your bank acount before sound judgement.

Isn't it funny how people have no problem speaking out in support of something they disagree with, but when it's applied to their own kinks and fetishes? Not so much.

THIS is why I and others spoke out against all the "OMG AGEPLAYERS ARE PEDALFILESES" threads. THIS is why we fought with you, Vryl, on your threads.

Mickey, did you come here to start drama? This is not an "let's attack Vryl because she was against child pornagraphy.. virtual or otherwise thread.. simply because I am bored and get a rise out of it." This thread is to Linden Lab, not Mickey and it is reference to their new blog which means it belongs in the townhall feedback area like other similar threads. I had ONE thread and I stand by my feelings on protecting children. That hasn't changed.

Unlike you, I don't believe one has anything to do with the other. Please don't violate the TOS by dragging up old threads in a new thread where it doesn't belong and don't troll and incite me or make personal attacks with comments like that or I'll report it. I don't stalk your threads or anyone else's threads.. I only post when I feel I have something worthy to input otherwise I stay out of the forum politics and don't care to get involved it, not now, not ever.

As Ceejay said, this is Linden Lab not having the balls to just do the right thing because they don't really know what the right thing is because they need better management and better legal advice .. it appears to me they are listening too many people while as Ceejay pointed out, afraid to lose money .. In the end, they will lose it all if they don't make wise decisions now.

I agree, Vryl. As you, my avi is a vampire as well..I'm minding my own business with likeminded ppl. I don't bother others and they don't bother me...I'm not offensive towards other ppl and have friends who are Neko's, furries, mechs etc. Every time LL gets mentioned in the media they change the rules, distancing themselves from their own slogan more and more.

Mandy C

As Ceejay said, this is Linden Lab not having the balls to just do the right thing because they don't really know what the right thing is because they need better management and better legal advice .. it appears to me they are listening too many people while as Ceejay pointed out, afraid to lose money .. In the end, they will lose it all if they don't make wise decisions now.

....

oh come on Vryl, you were told the ageplay thing was just the start of a snowball that would impact on other freedoms, but you failed to acknowledge that. now the boot is on the other foot, and you're complaining because somebody couldn't help saying I told you so!

as you weren't supportive of that stance at the time, I'm not really sure why you expect anybody to support you when you protest the very same thing now.

if you need to communicate directly with Linden Lab, Resident Answers is not the place to do it.

You are not given the freedom to dictate who does and does not participate in threads you started.

No, it applies. YOU were the one who repeatedly brought up, and have again, a link between ageplay and paedophilia. They are two separate things.
Those of us who have spoken out against folks like you who keep promoting this "banning ageplay protects kids" line, have also spoken out against banning your kinks, too. In the "discussion" you and I had, I spoke out against your "lifestyle" as hyperbole, trying to explain the flaws in your logic and the hypocricy of linking SL and RL.

I just find it hypocritical to be so gung ho about banning one person's kink (and I'm not talking about paedophiles or kiddie porn being passed around, I'm talking about a kink, just like yours) then all outraged when yours is beat down.

And, yes, I will continue to post my disgust at this hypocricy.

You're disgusted at ageplayers and think that it leads to danger in RL, so they should be banned.
Someone else is disgusted by your vampiric kink, with the bloodletting etc, and think it leads to danger in RL, but you're into it, so it shouldn't be banned?

(By the way, this is on topic, as you brought up your "lifestyle"...)

The moral of the story is unless you are a "Normal" looking avatar, engaging in "Normal"
activities, they will come for you eventually. Band together people. If this is a reaction to the outcry over Verification as the OP thinks (not a bad theory) it does show that we do have some voice, and someone is listening to it, however briefly. Let's figure out a way to derail this scheme, or at least to make it go more to our benefit.

I agree. Sure, we could waste time saying "told you they would come for you too", but stopping this nonsense is way more important. This budding persecution has to stop NOW, and that won't happen if we start fighting amongst each other instead of fighting the persecution itself.

I think the OP is on to something in terms of protest. Why don't we, instead of hiding our stuff for fear of being discovered, wear our perceived 'offensive' weirdness as a badge of pride? Why don't we ALL AR ourselves and flood LL with our so-called 'offences'? That might be a greatly effective way of telling the Lindens that the Community in majority regards this kind of persecution as broadly offensive.

My own offences during my time in SL include rapeplay, bdsm, possession of bdsm props, bestiality, bisexuality, transgendering, crossdressing, designing and selling crossdressers merchandise, swearing, witnessing slavery without interfering, whoring, and undoubtedly some other 'broadly offensive' behaviour I fail to think about this instant. Who will come out of the closet with me to send the Lindens a message?

I knew there was something about you I liked Suzy.....

I can't help but laugh and laugh and laugh. This is so true, and while I know I'm losing many of my freedoms as I type this, there is some kind of disturbed pleasure at watching Vryl get what was coming to her.

In the mean time, I'm watching the LindeX for the beginnings of a drop in the value of the L$, as I would like to get as much out of my L$500,000 as I can--if the market really is going to crash. It's been stable, even after the not-so-recent announcement, so I don't think I have to worry just yet.

Suzy you are so not taking my dog for a walk.

Ok serious things.

Linden Labs, stop putting the onus on the people that come here for enjoyment. Make up a EULA telling us what you will and willnot allow to take place on your grid.

If you don't want graphic sexual acts taking place (whether it be rl photo's, Av photo's or animated poseballs, seems pictures of topless slavegirls is ok though, as they were up on flikr when I logged in) then add it to the rules.

If you don't want BDSM taking place then add it to the rules.
If you don't want same sex marriages on the grid then put it in the rules.
If you don't want bestiality ( sorry Suzy) then add it to the rules.
If you don't want people to dress up as Vampires then add it to the rules.
If you don't want people to wear pink on thursdays then add it to the rules ( sorry )

Then implement them.

Then let us as adults decide if we wish to continue to participate in activeties in your grid.

The blog announcement, which at a basic level gives citizens carte blanche to snitch on their neighbour, destroys the last residue of respect that there was for the way you run the grid over moral issues.

No Pink on Thursday!!!!
Screw you guys, I'm going home.

This does not bode well for my Turqoise Sunday's!

You've been messing with that.."Voice Changer" again, haven't you?

LOL! here Brenda...

http://www.screamingbee.com/product/MorphVOXJunior.aspx

...isn't it time you became Brendan?

This is a plain and simple "retarded move" by Linden Labs they will lose allot of money over this and it is possible that they may never recover from it. Its just plain stupid to have the majority tell every one what is or is not right; What can and can't be said and how one should act in a video game based on a persons individuality I mean come on now I can't be myself in a video game I can't talk about what I want? Oh yeah it is also wrong if one person can tell me what I can or can't look like in a video game or tell me what I can or can't say. What do i do if the person will not stop bothering me tell him nicely to go away? And god forbid I offend someone by talking about a subject that they just walked into without and have no real idea what we are even talking about. This is just a stupid idea... Because they will just ban people for being different. Im going to stand by what I said and be against this and will not budge on it.

Just a little hypotehetical, submitted for your approval: All lewd and lasciviousness is cleansed from SL and a large chunk of residents, the unwashed non creative masses (AKA Average Americans)leave. remaining are the Corporations and the Colony of enlightened artists and thinkers and maybe a stray Political Candidate or two. One day, the drone that runs the sim that XYZ Corporation paid Electric Sheep a wad of cash for, sits empty. for days, weeks months. Why?, he asks. He calls up the Candidate, and the Candidate admits no one is visiting him either. Why? Well, all the residents of SL V2 are artisans and philosophers. Philosophers don't need material things and the artisans can make whatever they need and trade amongst themselves. Besides these type never participate in the crass consumerism of those "other" people anyway. So XYZ Corp pulls up stakes and heads back to the real world. The Candidate realizes, being Amereican that hey, the Americans left here are all too smart to fall for any of my bullshit, and all the Europeans here can't vote for me. All the cultural troglodytes I came to bamboozle (AKA Average Americans) have gone. So he pulls out. Now all the Europeans are left with are the American Cultural Elite who are still vastly inferior to them , so out of boredom they leave. At this point the remaining Americans realize they are alone, with no one to buy thier creations or feel superior to, and they go. All we have left is a flaming bag of dog poop on the front porch and the Lindens standing around in bare feet.

:wonders when Linden Labs IPO is going to be announced::

Do you suppose if we bought stock we could influence how things are run?

Which will come first -- Chapter 7 or Chapter 11?

Naw, dude. Sony will buy them out first.

No EA will

Ah well, my computer seems to have a moral problem with bestiality anyway. When it witnessed me being assaulted by a well-hung snow fox, it promptly decided to crash in shock to stop that 'broadly offensive' scene. It took me a minute or two to figure out the fox wasn't the silent type, my system had just frozen. The last thing I remember is the Blue Screen of Death...

This is what was posted 5/31:



And so it begins.

We've been hearing the arguements about "ageplay" in SL for a while now. The Lindens had turned a blind eye towards it in a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for about three years now. They knew it was there, but they didn't do anything. Suddenly, they're becoming a larger company and the news does what it does to anyone or thing that becomes popular, it digs up dirt. Now the Lindens are scared and looking at their pocketbooks and wondering what to do.

Let's first talk about "ageplay". In the United States, the Communications Decency Act was passed in Feburary 1996 and struck down in June 1997. Under the CDA's provisions, images of pornography that depicted anyone who could be mistaken for a minor engaged in sexual acts, or even just nude, was illegal even if the person involved was 18 or older. When the law was struck down as unconstitutional, I took that as a sign that the government thought that we, as adults, could use good judgement and intelligence to actually tell the difference between the real thing and the fantasy.

Linden Labs is based in the US and all its servers are currently based there. I believe (and this is only speculation) that it may want to expand its servers overseas. And here lies the problem. In most countries in Europe, they have not had their versions of the CDA struck down. In many European countries, they do not recognize the difference between actual children being abused and two adults "ageplaying". This has led the Lindens to crack down on "ageplay" as they have defined it. It's their toy and they can do what they want. I disagree with their position.

Yes, they should crack down on the exchange of images of real life children being molested. In fact, they had groups of "ageplayers" right there in the open to monitor for this; no need to even hunt them down. Now they will all go elsewhere or underground and may never be caught. But interfering with consenting adults? No. Not unless they plan to expand into Europe where they can actually be held accountable by the law. (On a personal note, were I running SL, I would just keep my servers US based and let the European authorities police their own people. The American government has decided we can be treated like adults on the subject and make our own decisions.)

Now we get to the other part, rape and violence. While I believe we can all agree that the distribution of RL images of those behaviors is upsetting and should be curtailed, it should be allowed to be expressed in art and avatars. Personally, I am stunned that the Lindens even touched on this subject. Except RL images, there is no such things as rape in SL at all. Period. Can't happen. All sexual activity by the nature of SL is consensual, therefore there CANNOT be anything such as rape. There cannot be a real victim, because the "victim" of such activity in SL can always leave or mute a harrassing aggressor and report his activity. Something that can't happen in a real life rape.

And what about images of rape and violence? Are they disturbing? Yes, and they're supposed to be. But that's all they are, images. Form with no substance or power, only that which we give it. People express violence in artwork to evoke strong reactions out of us. They remind us that we do not live in a perfect or safe world.

SL for me and many others is about exploring different aspects of our own psyches that we don't express in real life, either because it isn't physically possible or isn't normally safe. SL is already safe. It doesn't need these mandates to make it safe.



"Broadly offensive". That term will haunt all of us. It isn't defined. What seems fine to one person may be offensive to another. Our tastes are all individual.

Yes, the advocates of "ageplay" had it right, they will come for you too. No matter what your kink is, someone on this earth finds it offensive. Period. The "ageplayers" were saying, "if they ban us and curtail our freedom, where will the Lindens stop? What else will they find offensive?". I'm sure the furries are sweating today, as people will probably be looking at them next.

What we will see in the months to come is a flood of complaints and reports on peoples' in-game activities. And the vast majority of them will not be valid ones. We're looking at a police state where people will be informing on their neighbors. Sound familiar to anyone?

None of us made the real world. We cannot control it. Many things in the world we will not like, or their images will disturb us, or we'll find other people's taste offensive to our own. But we, as adults and human beings, must learn to live with other people's differences. If you don't like what your neighbor is into, stop using the <alt> button to look through his/her walls! We're supposed to be adults, start acting like one instead of a tattle-tale child who can't look after themself.

I'm sorry Jordan, I totally disagree and feel one has nothing to do with the other and personally find anyone having fantasies about having sex with children not acceptable and don't want to be lumped into the same category with these people either. Allot of people participating in "sexual" ageplay create images and market them as virtual simulated child porn. Even if real life children are not involved, it's still feeding the predators out there who seek out the real thing but hey that's just my personal opinion.

This thread had nothing to do with that subject. I created this thread to address Linden Lab in their town hall questions to please define "broadly offensive" and other terms used in their most recent blog... to be more specific with the public.


Vryl Valkyrie