Second Life Forums Archive - Mirrors!

Kepster Cure

Paradigm Shifter

Join date: 7 Jan 2006

Posts: 198

02-02-2007 11:17

WHAT!!!! I am literally jumping outta my seat, can't wait to get home, Thanks Suze!!!

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-Cure

Aaron Edelweiss

Registered User

Join date: 16 Nov 2006

Posts: 115

02-02-2007 11:23

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

It should be an object property. The old shiny should still be available. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive, and transparency should work well with both.

The old shiny should be improved so it's not so zigzag looking but otherwise remain the same.

Reflection might should also be a parcel property, in case a landowner has reason to not want mirrors on their land.

no, this should be a setting in preferences, such as turning shiny on and off, not per parcel.

Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-02-2007 12:56

No, reflective surfacing rendering should be a client preference.
Having shiney XOR reflective should be a prim property.
Reflective surfaces as a land/parcel/sim/region property would not effect avatars.

Foo Spark

alias Bathsheba Dorn

Join date: 8 Nov 2006

Posts: 110

02-02-2007 13:23

From: paulie Femto

I don't know what I'm doin right, but I see framerates of 20+ fps with reflections on or off. No difference. Woots!

Reflections are undoubtably pure client-side. What you did right is you've got a bitchen client!

From: someone

Some thoughts on the "reflections vs shiny" issue: What if shiny was changed to have 6 levels instead of 3, with the first 3 levels (the levels we think of as "shiny low", "shiny medium" and "shiny high"

being very minimal reflection. The upper 3 levels could be the new highly reflective effect.

That'd work for me; anything so that shiny and reflectiveness are separate. They are in every renderer on Earth, and they should be here too.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

02-02-2007 13:52

From: Nargus Asturias

That look neat, the code. Though i don't think that exact method would work with SL -- see if the client has to render the whole screen (the DrawNinja() function) again for every mirror in the scene! o.o

You have to pay the cost of doing that extra rendering no matter how you implement reflections, because that's what happens, optically, when you render a reflective surface.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

reflective objects in HUDs are weird.

02-02-2007 13:54

I tried making a rear view mirror, and what I got was a mirror that rendered whatever was west of me no matter which way I was facing. Hmmm...

Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-02-2007 15:25

Lol.

Fa nyak

>(O.o)<

Join date: 8 Oct 2004

Posts: 342

02-02-2007 16:53

i just crash to desktop soon as i enable this in debug ;.;

Kepster Cure

Paradigm Shifter

Join date: 7 Jan 2006

Posts: 198

02-02-2007 18:18

Cant find the option in my client, what exactly is first look viewer? Thanks in advance.

_____________________

Keeping the boundaries distant.

-Cure

Nargus Asturias

Registered User

Join date: 16 Sep 2005

Posts: 499

02-02-2007 18:49

Activate debug menu with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-D and go for Client menu ;p

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Kepster Cure

Paradigm Shifter

Join date: 7 Jan 2006

Posts: 198

02-02-2007 19:10

What I meant was that I cannot find it under Client>Rendering, any ideas why it isnt there I am currently using version 1.13.3(2) updated January 30, 2007 under Rendering>Features I have Dynamic Textures but not Dynamic Reflections...

_____________________

Keeping the boundaries distant.

-Cure

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

02-02-2007 19:15

You need to be using the First Look viewer, here.

Kepster Cure

Paradigm Shifter

Join date: 7 Jan 2006

Posts: 198

02-02-2007 19:24

Do'h!!!!! TY Cutter

_____________________

Keeping the boundaries distant.

-Cure

Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-02-2007 19:57

From: Nargus Asturias

Activate debug menu with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-D and go for Client menu ;p

Don't need the shift key, btw.

Lee Ponzu

What Would Steve Do?

Join date: 28 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,770

Patent Leather Shoes

02-03-2007 07:45

look out, Catholic School girls.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

02-03-2007 08:00

From: Draco18s Majestic

Don't need the shift key, btw.

There used to be a bug that caused some folk's systems to not toggle the Debug menu when pressing Control Alt D; the workaround was to press Shift Control Alt D, which appeared to work for everyone.

I don't know if Control Alt D works for everyone, like it should, or not.

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

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Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-03-2007 12:59

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

There used to be a bug that caused some folk's systems to not toggle the Debug menu when pressing Control Alt D; the workaround was to press Shift Control Alt D, which appeared to work for everyone.

I don't know if Control Alt D works for everyone, like it should, or not.

Ah, interesting, I did not know that.

Yiffy Yaffle

Purple SpiritWolf Mystic

Join date: 22 Oct 2004

Posts: 2,802

02-06-2007 07:37

I was hoping to see mirrors. I've been asking for them for 2 years. So far i haven't been pleased with firstlook at all. This was one thing i was hoping would change that. It only works on water for me, totally disables shiny, makes things extremely laggy, and the water looks like acid. Sorry but this really sucks. I can run mirroring perfectly when i play everquest 2. My home in EQ2 has mirrors everywhere...

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paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

mirrors cant be done

02-06-2007 08:48

Everyone knows that.

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Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-06-2007 12:42

From: paulie Femto

mirrors cant be done
Everyone knows that.

Mirors can be done, they are just hard to do at a real-time speed for a dynamic world.
What they've done here is found a way to trick the eye without needing much overhead (one extra render as opposed to one extra render PER MIRRORED SURFACE, not per prim, per surface).

Sly Antfarm

freewebs.com/poetry4us

Join date: 22 Dec 2006

Posts: 106

02-06-2007 22:21

I tried it out in a science program and it was cool

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Yiffy Yaffle

Purple SpiritWolf Mystic

Join date: 22 Oct 2004

Posts: 2,802

02-07-2007 06:51

I figured out how SOE does their mirror trick in EQ2. In the options panel in EQ2 it gives you options to turn on shaders for the water (EQ2 has the best water i've ever sean in any MMO). When you turn on the shaders for the water, it also enables mirrors since the ocean also reflects. Might be another way LL could go about it i guess.

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Fer Ikarus

Registered User

Join date: 14 Jan 2007

Posts: 8

02-07-2007 14:18

Someone knows why I can't find Client -> Rendering -> Dynamic Reflections option in the First Look client? Between which options should be?

nvm. I just read they disabled the option.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

02-07-2007 17:08

They're not disabled. You have activate "RenderDynamicReflections" in the "Client->Debug Settings" option.

Draco18s Majestic

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 2,744

02-07-2007 21:59

From: Yiffy Yaffle

I figured out how SOE does their mirror trick in EQ2. In the options panel in EQ2 it gives you options to turn on shaders for the water (EQ2 has the best water i've ever sean in any MMO). When you turn on the shaders for the water, it also enables mirrors since the ocean also reflects. Might be another way LL could go about it i guess.

Go about enabling and disabling it. Doesn't give us any insight into how EQ renders their mirrors though.

Mirrors!
Kepster Cure Paradigm Shifter Join date: 7 Jan 2006 Posts: 198	02-02-2007 11:17 WHAT!!!! I am literally jumping outta my seat, can't wait to get home, Thanks Suze!!! _____________________ Keeping the boundaries distant. -Cure
Aaron Edelweiss Registered User Join date: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 115	02-02-2007 11:23 From: SuezanneC Baskerville It should be an object property. The old shiny should still be available. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive, and transparency should work well with both. The old shiny should be improved so it's not so zigzag looking but otherwise remain the same. Reflection might should also be a parcel property, in case a landowner has reason to not want mirrors on their land. no, this should be a setting in preferences, such as turning shiny on and off, not per parcel.
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-02-2007 12:56 No, reflective surfacing rendering should be a client preference. Having shiney XOR reflective should be a prim property. Reflective surfaces as a land/parcel/sim/region property would not effect avatars.
Foo Spark alias Bathsheba Dorn Join date: 8 Nov 2006 Posts: 110	02-02-2007 13:23 From: paulie Femto I don't know what I'm doin right, but I see framerates of 20+ fps with reflections on or off. No difference. Woots! Reflections are undoubtably pure client-side. What you did right is you've got a bitchen client! From: someone Some thoughts on the "reflections vs shiny" issue: What if shiny was changed to have 6 levels instead of 3, with the first 3 levels (the levels we think of as "shiny low", "shiny medium" and "shiny high" being very minimal reflection. The upper 3 levels could be the new highly reflective effect. That'd work for me; anything so that shiny and reflectiveness are separate. They are in every renderer on Earth, and they should be here too.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	02-02-2007 13:52 From: Nargus Asturias That look neat, the code. Though i don't think that exact method would work with SL -- see if the client has to render the whole screen (the DrawNinja() function) again for every mirror in the scene! o.o You have to pay the cost of doing that extra rendering no matter how you implement reflections, because that's what happens, optically, when you render a reflective surface.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	reflective objects in HUDs are weird. 02-02-2007 13:54 I tried making a rear view mirror, and what I got was a mirror that rendered whatever was west of me no matter which way I was facing. Hmmm...
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-02-2007 15:25 Lol.
Fa nyak >(O.o)< Join date: 8 Oct 2004 Posts: 342	02-02-2007 16:53 i just crash to desktop soon as i enable this in debug ;.;
Kepster Cure Paradigm Shifter Join date: 7 Jan 2006 Posts: 198	02-02-2007 18:18 Cant find the option in my client, what exactly is first look viewer? Thanks in advance. _____________________ Keeping the boundaries distant. -Cure
Nargus Asturias Registered User Join date: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 499	02-02-2007 18:49 Activate debug menu with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-D and go for Client menu ;p _____________________ Nargus Asturias, aka, StreamWarrior Blue Eastern Water Dragon Brown-skinned Utahraptor from an Old Time
Kepster Cure Paradigm Shifter Join date: 7 Jan 2006 Posts: 198	02-02-2007 19:10 What I meant was that I cannot find it under Client>Rendering, any ideas why it isnt there I am currently using version 1.13.3(2) updated January 30, 2007 under Rendering>Features I have Dynamic Textures but not Dynamic Reflections... _____________________ Keeping the boundaries distant. -Cure
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	02-02-2007 19:15 You need to be using the First Look viewer, here.
Kepster Cure Paradigm Shifter Join date: 7 Jan 2006 Posts: 198	02-02-2007 19:24 Do'h!!!!! TY Cutter _____________________ Keeping the boundaries distant. -Cure
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-02-2007 19:57 From: Nargus Asturias Activate debug menu with Ctrl-Alt-Shift-D and go for Client menu ;p Don't need the shift key, btw.
Lee Ponzu What Would Steve Do? Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,770	Patent Leather Shoes 02-03-2007 07:45 look out, Catholic School girls.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	02-03-2007 08:00 From: Draco18s Majestic Don't need the shift key, btw. There used to be a bug that caused some folk's systems to not toggle the Debug menu when pressing Control Alt D; the workaround was to press Shift Control Alt D, which appeared to work for everyone. I don't know if Control Alt D works for everyone, like it should, or not. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-03-2007 12:59 From: SuezanneC Baskerville There used to be a bug that caused some folk's systems to not toggle the Debug menu when pressing Control Alt D; the workaround was to press Shift Control Alt D, which appeared to work for everyone. I don't know if Control Alt D works for everyone, like it should, or not. Ah, interesting, I did not know that.
Yiffy Yaffle Purple SpiritWolf Mystic Join date: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 2,802	02-06-2007 07:37 I was hoping to see mirrors. I've been asking for them for 2 years. So far i haven't been pleased with firstlook at all. This was one thing i was hoping would change that. It only works on water for me, totally disables shiny, makes things extremely laggy, and the water looks like acid. Sorry but this really sucks. I can run mirroring perfectly when i play everquest 2. My home in EQ2 has mirrors everywhere... _____________________ YouTube channel -+- Website -+- RezzedNet Profile
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	mirrors cant be done 02-06-2007 08:48 Everyone knows that. _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-06-2007 12:42 From: paulie Femto mirrors cant be done Everyone knows that. Mirors can be done, they are just hard to do at a real-time speed for a dynamic world. What they've done here is found a way to trick the eye without needing much overhead (one extra render as opposed to one extra render PER MIRRORED SURFACE, not per prim, per surface).
Sly Antfarm freewebs.com/poetry4us Join date: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 106	02-06-2007 22:21 I tried it out in a science program and it was cool _____________________ freewebs.com/poetry4us Sign the g-book please
Yiffy Yaffle Purple SpiritWolf Mystic Join date: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 2,802	02-07-2007 06:51 I figured out how SOE does their mirror trick in EQ2. In the options panel in EQ2 it gives you options to turn on shaders for the water (EQ2 has the best water i've ever sean in any MMO). When you turn on the shaders for the water, it also enables mirrors since the ocean also reflects. Might be another way LL could go about it i guess. _____________________ YouTube channel -+- Website -+- RezzedNet Profile
Fer Ikarus Registered User Join date: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 8	02-07-2007 14:18 Someone knows why I can't find Client -> Rendering -> Dynamic Reflections option in the First Look client? Between which options should be? nvm. I just read they disabled the option.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	02-07-2007 17:08 They're not disabled. You have activate "RenderDynamicReflections" in the "Client->Debug Settings" option.
Draco18s Majestic Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 2,744	02-07-2007 21:59 From: Yiffy Yaffle I figured out how SOE does their mirror trick in EQ2. In the options panel in EQ2 it gives you options to turn on shaders for the water (EQ2 has the best water i've ever sean in any MMO). When you turn on the shaders for the water, it also enables mirrors since the ocean also reflects. Might be another way LL could go about it i guess. Go about enabling and disabling it. Doesn't give us any insight into how EQ renders their mirrors though.

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