....but I think I'll take another Tour tonight.
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How to help newbies financially? |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 12:25
I might too. I identify with something you said earlier - that it's interesting to see where you'll end up _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 12:59
If I'd been going round collecting money as fast as I could, I wouldn't have wandered round New Brighton wherever the cone was placed. It's only because I had time to kill that I decided to wander round - and was impressed. Ah! But the *fastest* that you can collect money is,say, once every 11 minutes. You can do a 30-second visit at a place, but that leaves you with 11 minues - 30 seconds to spend somewhere before you can initiate the following 11 minute interval. You can get out of a place immediately, but you're still stuck with the 11 minutes wait - somewhere- with "time to kill". Now if a pattern emerged of significant numbers of people going to a cone to collect L$2 and then abandoning the cone chain and heading off into SL.... That would be a bummer. The system is predicated on people who want to spend hours collecting L$2 every 11 minutes - the ex-campers. Would there be many people who just used it to collect L$2 every once in a random while? How about something like... If you are given a LM to a place and do not click the cone there within 30(?) minutes, then the next time you click a cone, you just get a LM to where you can start a chain. _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:12
There are two aspects 1. How to identify people who one feels will spend it onwards. Largely this could be a bot-blocking issue. Multiple-Alt-detection isn't really possible I think. You could pay people to be the bot-filters. You'd have to trust them not to pass their own alts. They would need to cover all the language groups. 2. Where does the money come from? Residents who put up the level of money to replace current camping levels are likely to require a benefit to themselves in return. There are residents who give to others without condition, but I doubt that their pockets would be deep enough. There is no guarantee that they will spend it. However.....why would the bother touring, if they were not going to spend it. Unless they have a team of alts collecting in order to cash it in, and withdraw it from SL...but I can see where this particular set up would make that difficult for most users. Yes....I want a return. I direct outright donations without conditions to other causes. As for the store tools...I want a return. The money they receive does not have to come back to me directly....but I want some other benefit....as I would suspect most do. One of the aspects that I like most about this cone system, is that it involves a network of cooperation. As long as the random function is not manipulated....it would seem to even things out more effectively than a tool offered by LL that could be manipulated by heavy hitters. Using three cones in my store may seem like an unfair advantage....but I saw several others doing the same thing...and it's necessary to cover a large area, as opposed to someone who has a store on a 4096 sqm plot. The "opt out" feature would take care of this, if you ended up somewhere twice that you didn't want to spend more time in. As for another suggestion.....I'm thinking along the lines of a co-op system that is similar.....but I want more control or choice over the selection of places in the network. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 13:14
My reply was to the idea of not having to spend time at the place. If I have to spend 11 minutes at the place, your question about the location of the cone wouldn't have arisen.
I'm not interested in a system that doesn't compel the user to spend time in my place for the money. I want their eyeballs on my stuff, whether they like it or not. You're the only one in this thread who has spoken in favour of your idea. Isn't time to let it go? _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 13:16
As for another suggestion.....I'm thinking along the lines of a co-op system that is similar.....but I want more control or choice over the selection of places in the network. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 13:21
As you wish. I'm not going to argue the toss with you. In this thread, the intention of the cones is to get eyeballs into places, and not to gain traffic points. There is nothing unfair about that. Jack can say what he likes - it's nothing to do with me. The problem with that, and with Mickey's post directly above, is that Traffic is still a ranking factor. If here is a system that pays a fixed amount for a fixed amount of traffic points.... What will all the camping operators, who used to be bot runners, do? They're in there like a flash, paying for traffic exactly as they paid for camper traffic. Now I put my self in their minds.... How to really game this thing? (Whether it's fixed stay or not.) How about running bots that appear to be coneheads, arriving and going through the motions of clicking their own cones, then staying for 11 minutes or a bit longer. The bots don't have to actually pass whatever bot-test the cones present. They are not after the payment (to themselves) They simply use the genuine cone-heads as a cloak and are actually pure traffic bots. They just have to disappear every once in a while. Bummer!  If LL can't detect 'bad' bots, the thing has become the perfect cloaking device. _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:26
Explain please. The Perfect System for me would be: A design other than a cone...that would blend into a store better. Selection of Tours: 1) Newcomer Tour would have a random selection of places like the Botanical Gardens, a popular Dance Club, a Building Tutorial location, a great Info Hub location, a great Freebie Location, a few places like Desmond's Caledon.....all to hold their attention and keep them here. But - I want the Excellent Places to be determined. No crap allowed. 2) a Mall Tour. Again....malls that are packed....not empty malls....your mall has to be "approved" 3) Store Locations. 4) Club Locations - Live Music Event Venues - Dance Clubs - (no escort clubs, not the place for it - when you are jumping randomly, this throws some people off, and they will simply end the tour) 5) Meet and Greet Locations - Info Hubs - Social Centers 6) Land buying and renting Locations - Home Prefab stores 7) a Completely Random Tour of all of the above And a Conehead Club Group - a group in which those who got addicted to it....could get announcements or offers....the participating locations allowed to send notices or offers once a week, similar to the way the freebie clubs do. Add a Pre-Packaged Tour Center Option to rez on your propery. I'm having to build one now. A square room with ad boards on the walls....a few racks/displays for products...TP devices to get you to the rest of the store or venue.....all the tools built in....just rez it. I want the ability to put my own ads on the ad boards for places I approve of....not an ad board network. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 13:27
I'm not interested in what *can* be done with it, Sling, or that it increases traffic points. I'm only interested in what it can do for me in terms of real eyes seeing my stuff. The rest of it is of no interest to me. What LL makes of it is of no interest to me. If I use the system, and LL declares it be a no-no, then I'll stop using it but, until then, I'll use it for my own purpose (if I use it at all), which is nothing to do with traffic points.
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Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:32
Sling....have you taken The Tour yet?
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 13:35
It sounds good, Mickey, but I do see one problem. If the places are to be approved, and only the better ones get in, then the user potential will be seriously diminished because a lot fewer people will see and use the system. For it work at all, it needs as many coneheads as it can get, so that different people are visiting the places, which means as many cones out there as possible. It's no good at all if the same people just do the rounds, even if it takes 2 weeks to complete a round.
Also, who decides which places can be included, and which are rejected? Imo, most places are of some interest to some people. I don't like the idea of only approved places. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:42
It sounds good, Mickey, but I do see one problem. If the places are to be approved, and only the better ones get in, then the user potential will be seriously diminished because a lot fewer people will see and use the system. For it work at all, it needs as many coneheads as it can get, so that different people are visiting the places, which means as many cones out there as possible. It's no good at all if the same people just do the rounds, even if it takes 2 weeks to complete a round. Also, who decides which places can be included, and which are rejected? Imo, most places are of some interest to some people. I think that if you are going to offer a "Newcomer" Tour....you better show them the right stuff. Last night, I was sent to several malls that were completely empty. Total waste of time. I was thinking along the lines of whenever I do Cross-marketing with other stores. Effort and thought goes into that network among us all. We generally do not include direct competitors....but some times we do. It's most effective when all involved are entirely different types of businesses. It was generally with less than a dozen stores/venues....but just a tad bit more effort, and it could have been increased many times over. We just didn't have a simple tool that would make it easier for us every week. The organization required some time and effort that some people can't find every week. |
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 13:48
My reply was to the idea of not having to spend time at the place. If I have to spend 11 minutes at the place, your question about the location of the cone wouldn't have arisen. I'm not interested in a system that doesn't compel the user to spend time in my place for the money. I want their eyeballs on my stuff, whether they like it or not. You're the only one in this thread who has spoken in favour of your idea. Isn't time to let it go? The only real issue that the few others posting have with it is the question of the mandatory stay. "I'm not interested in a system that doesn't compel the user to spend time in my place for the money." A rose by any other name - Camping. Manuel/Phil: Ezz a Siberian Hamster Fawlty/Jack: It's a bleedin' RAT!! The mandatory stay makes it a mobile camping system. Continuing the discussion without taking that into account in the light of stated LL policy make changes the discussion to an interesting academic exercise that might possible throw up an alternative workable idea. "Isn't time to let it go?" We're heading back towards a spiral of you trying to slap me down, and me refusing to be slapped down. It doesn't work. This would be a good time to stop trying it. _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:51
Sling - Phil is "on tour" now.....why don't you join him?
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 13:57
This cone ain't big enough for the two of us!
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 13:59
This cone ain't big enough for the two of us! But the 11 minutes would go by so fast! And the things you could discuss! |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 14:00
I could "chaperone"
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 14:27
Nah! I'm to busy looking at his web page.
# ~ Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture - Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture (195, 117, 24  # . ~ Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture - Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture (195, 118, 24 # . ~ Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture - Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture (194, 117, 24 # . ~ Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture - Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture (194, 118, 24 # . ~ Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture - Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture Furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture furniture (194, 119, 24 # . ~ Low Prim Furniture, furniture, low prim furniture, furniture - low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture furniture (195, 118, 24 # . ~ Low Prim Furniture, furniture, low prim furniture, furniture - low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture furniture (194, 118, 24 # . ~ Low Prim Furniture, furniture, low prim furniture, furniture - low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture low prim furniture furniture furniture (194, 119, 24 The other top rankers beside him in All search have chunks of the same style. Some people might find this confusing as Phil ridiculed me for suggesting that such a thing could have any good effect. Anything I had to say about search engines was to be ignored. This deserves an explanation. Maybe.. He and his top-ranked competitors have put that stuff in their pages to prove that it actually damages ranking???? Sort of cooperative scientific research in which they all agree to suffer an equivalent amount of rank reduction in order to prove what they already knew full sure was true? _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 14:44
This deserves an explanation. ? I have a zillion vases. My parcel ad could read: large vase, small vase, tall vase, orange vase, yellow vase, red vase, square vase, round vase, modern vase, art deco vase, floral vase, marble vase......etc...... If I want to use a parcel description in that way....you're probably not going to approve. I assume the above is a parcel description? |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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05-29-2009 14:55
I spoke to Jan....i think we cna forget it ever being a large audience product
Bottom line he doesn't have the funds at the moment to make it big, as its need backend server support ...he mention something about website and what ahve you. I joined a new system instead which is catching on like wildfire (3 weeks old), involves no payment to visitors...more geared to shoppers as oppposed to freebie hunters. |
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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05-29-2009 14:59
I have a zillion vases. My parcel ad could read: large vase, small vase, tall vase, orange vase, yellow vase, red vase, square vase, round vase, modern vase, art deco vase, floral vase, marble vase......etc...... If I want to use a parcel description in that way....you're probably not going to approve. I assume the above is a parcel description? It's nothing to do with approval or not even if one or more of your zillion vases flagged for search had a description of "vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase " It's simply that there are conflicting messages coming out on the topic of the technical value of doing that. This is totally separate from any consideration of 'approval'. _____________________
Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589 |
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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05-29-2009 15:26
It's nothing to do with approval or not even if one or more of your zillion vases flagged for search had a description of "vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase vase " It's simply that there are conflicting messages coming out on the topic of the technical value of doing that. This is totally separate from any consideration of 'approval'. OK....just seemed odd popping up in the middle of the topic we were discussing. I haven't followed the "conflicting message" discussion....is that in this thread about "Helping Newbies Financially?" or in another thread? |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 15:35
The only real issue that the few others posting have with it is the question of the mandatory stay. "I'm not interested in a system that doesn't compel the user to spend time in my place for the money." A rose by any other name - Camping. "Isn't time to let it go?" We're heading back towards a spiral of you trying to slap me down, and me refusing to be slapped down. It doesn't work. This would be a good time to stop trying it. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
|
05-29-2009 15:36
I spoke to Jan....i think we cna forget it ever being a large audience product Bottom line he doesn't have the funds at the moment to make it big, as its need backend server support ...he mention something about website and what ahve you. I joined a new system instead which is catching on like wildfire (3 weeks old), involves no payment to visitors...more geared to shoppers as oppposed to freebie hunters. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
|
05-29-2009 15:39
Nah! I'm to busy looking at his web page. The other top rankers beside him in All search have chunks of the same style. Some people might find this confusing as Phil ridiculed me for suggesting that such a thing could have any good effect. Anything I had to say about search engines was to be ignored. This deserves an explanation. Maybe.. He and his top-ranked competitors have put that stuff in their pages to prove that it actually damages ranking???? Sort of cooperative scientific research in which they all agree to suffer an equivalent amount of rank reduction in order to prove what they already knew full sure was true? _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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05-29-2009 15:42
I just finished a tour of about 8 places. The first 2 were to HQ, and one of the others was to a satellite of HQ. The rest were to places I hadn't been before - no stops at Mickey's. The system itself does seem to get an unexpectedly high number of visits.
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Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |