Chest vs. spine

I know there have been a lot of attachment point debates already, but I couldn't find a specific one about this on the forum, so I thought I'd ask.

I always kind of assumed backpacks should go on your chest and necklaces on the spine. I'm sure I went through my inventory once and, based on that, chose to make my backpacks go on the chest. But now I've noticed a lot of the necklaces I've bought actually attach to the chest as well.

I know there's no right or wrong here, or even a general consensus, but where do you want/expect your necklaces and backpacks to go? And do you like it when designers include two versions of a product for different attachment points? Do you often have a need for it? I'm considering doing this for a necklace type thing I'm making. My only concern is that I'm going to end up with huge file names. (Considering they already consist of a - short - mention of my store name, name of the product, color.)

I thought of maybe including two versions, but mentioning the attachment point in the description box instead?


I'd be interested to hear your thoughts or experiences

I'm surprised that this is even an issue. You can attach anything anywhere you choose to. And surely everybody needs to adjust the designer's positioning and sizing to some degree, wherever their chosen attachment point might be.

Sure, of course. This is not an 'issue' really, because it's not like you can't change an attachment point. However, having to reattach and reposition something is a lot more tedious than just having to move it an inch left or right.

That's why I was wondering what people's preferences were

If that's the case, then you should supply a version for every possible attachment point. A bit like clothing that comes on undershirt, shirt and jacket layers.

Well, just considering providing a chest and spine version

I'm not the most avid shopper in SL, not at the moment anyway, so I wouldn't know what common practice is. I have a few items in my inventory that come with 2 attachment point versions.

Almost all my necklaces attach to the chest attachment point. But, I also have several outfits that will also occupy that spot (prim collars, prim silk tops, etc.), and then I can't wear my necklace with it.

It's pretty easy for me to change the attachment point when I need to; but for someone who is new to sl, it might not be. And as you pointed out, having to change that over and over would be a bit tedious.

I love when creators--when possible--include a chest and spine version of their products in the folder when I buy an item or outfit. At the very least, it gives a sense of added value to the customer, in addition to saving them a bit of time. Too, it doesn't take much extra effort as a creator to include two versions in the package.

As for the naming convention, you could use and [C] (or something like that) at the end of the item name, with an explanation in a notecard.

It wont do any harm to provide them for different attachment points.

The more experienced people who are used to edit/positioning attachments wont see any benefit to them unless the items are NoCopy/Transfer (two for the price of one then). The less experienced will find it useful in the first instance and it does show, at least to them, that you were thinking about them when your product was packaged.

Any kind of jewelry that rides high on the neck, like bands, collars, cameos, etc.. I attach to chest. Shorter necklaces also get the chest spot. Longer chains and any kind larger attachment gets the spine spot. I do it that way because I seem far more likely to wear a band or collar if I have a set of wings or a backpack or whatever on, which are almost always a spine attach by default from what I've seen. It's cool when a creator cares enough to ask what people prefer.. a point not lost on me.

Hmm..interesting to listen to this...I make my necklaces chest attachments, and believe that has become the industry standard. Most prim clothing attachments I have seen go on spine, so this makes it possible to wear a sculpty jackey with necklace for example...Have creators settled into an unspoken arrangement that stops us fighting for attachment points? I think it may have happened that way, in the same way that glasses and lash makers seem to have it sorted out.

It's really easy to use any point you desire, regardless of what the creator has chosen. Just copy, and wear it on a different unused point. you will need to adjust its position and rotation, but it's the work of a minute or two.

I've never worn a backpack..had no idea they went on the chest rather than, well..the back.

(Ohh, side note..jewellers have long dreamed of a proper neck attachment point for necklaces and collars. The chest is the next closest place.)

but really is a moot point. When I make a necklace I put name, (chest) or name (spine).
That way one knows where it is going...and can change at will.
Great for you to want your customers opinions tho, and for me necklace (collar)goes to spine.

Or people could use this hidden gem of a script, which I find invaluable: /15/58/145509/1.html

That is truely the work of a genius. So simple, and in hindsight so obvious!

Innula..brilliant..I never knew about that

Does spine move slightly differently from chest?

As a female neko, I am no stranger to attachment point conflicts. More often than not, it is my tail that vanishes. Thankfully, tail makers have started to see the light and more of them are positioning tails to attach to the stomach (yes, I know this sounds silly, but it works). This is good because it has the lowest chance of conflicting with an item of clothing, though I still lose my tail with some complex dresses. My worst conflicts happen when I encounter a prim skirt that does NOT attach to the pelvis, or tails that DO attach to the pelvis.

That multi-attach-point script sounds like a godsend, though I am concerned about creating even more script-induced lag, especially with hair and skirt makers going uber-paranoid and making their products no-modify and relying on resizing scripts instead of allowing customers to size their own items (nothing like 200 listening agents in a single hair object to bring a sim to its knees or make region crossings unbearable)... but this is a rant for a different thread.

Pelvis attachment points for skirts is pretty much standard now, though I still encounter exceptions. However, I'm curious to know what everyone considers a standard attachment point for neko tails...

no.

Upper torso attachment points: Spine, Chest
Middle torso attachment points: Left Pec, Right Pec (poorly named)
Lower Torso attachment points: Pelvis, Stomach

Reminder... the "Shoulders" are their own separate bones, but the "Hips" are not (the Hips attach to the Upper Leg bones)

It is great that scripts can do things for you. But they also do add to the lag.
I would never buy an object with unnessecary scripts, unless I have mod rights and can delete the script.

Almost all my necklaces attached to chest when I got them, so to make life easy on myself I have changed the attachment point for the few that were originally spine.

I do have some things that I sometimes want to wear at a different attachment point. Fortunately all copy, so I just make copies for every attachment point I need.

For less experienced people I find the idea of giving 2 versions the best. As Bear said, it shows that you have been thinking of them. I always have a high opinion of people who do it this way. I see it as a sign that this person is considerate and helpful, somebody I would gladly buy from.

I've been told you can attach tails to the pectoral points because they (for no good reason I've been able to tell) pivot with the lower body.

Let me suggest every creator designer for whom this could be useful make a copy of that right now and keep it - as the destiny of our forums is written in water.

I was going to ask, Innula, how you felt about the script - if u considered it laggy or not- you know my lack of script skilss but I trust your judgement.

What problems do you say a single small script like that, which is only active for a fraction of a second when the item containing it is attached or unattached, would cause to a sim, particularly if it's not compiled in mono (which this particular script, dating from 2006, obviously doesn't need to be)? As compared, say, to a single poseball with an open listener on channel 1?

I completely agree about unnecessary scripts, but if you're worried about your sim's performance, I'd start by looking at stuff that actually does have a significant impact, at least cumulatively, like poseballs with open listeners on frequently-used channel or stuff using llSensorRepeat with too frequent repeats (or, indeed, using it at all if there's a viable alternative like detecting collisions).

ETA -- Amaranthim posted at the same time I did.

80% of the prim skirts I get attach to the pelvis... So, Nekotail goes on the stomach. (^_^)

My collar is on my spine, so, that attach point is simply not available for other things. Any and all upper body attachments must be on chest. (^_^)

In both cases, each pair of attach points are on the same bone, just at different angles.

Chest = Spine.

Pelvis = Stomach.

Left pec = Right pec.

Pecs are more the chest-to-stomach secondary pivot bone, so, they're great for high belts and babydoll frills. (^_^)y

Yep, stomach is what I expect/have seen around. I'm often a neko myself.

And wow, thanks for the input everyone

Innula: that little script is awesome! I didn't know about it. Just had a test and it works great. The only weird thing is that when I switch attachment points, the item will show in an incorrect position at first. It's only when I right click it, to edit, that it snaps to the position I previously stored. When I then deattach and just 'Wear' it again, this doesn't happen. It's nifty either way, makes duplicate copies unnecessary. I might consider using it. I agree: how much lag can it cause anyway? I'm generally mindful of script lag. I have a resizer for instance that works with only one script in the root prim.

What I'll take away from this convo as well is that you guys seem to mind all the reattachment hassle a lot less than I thought. I figured it annoyed people a lot more if stuff doesn't attach where it's 'supposed' to, but it's true that any product requires some fiddling anyway. And all my products are copy, and most mod, so no problem there with renaming and making duplicates.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. (Not that it's a big deal, I just consider my options way too long ) If there's a solution for the 'snapping' with that attachment script, I'd gladly use it.

I am not sure I can properly reproduce the problem you describe. I think it might be that you're re-attaching it too quickly after taking it back into your inventory; stuff needs to stay there a few seconds before re-attaching to allow any changes you've made to percolate back to the asset server and then back to the new instance (which is what it is) of the object the next time you wear it.

In other words, give it 10 seconds or so in your inventory to "set".

As to lag, I can't see this script causing any sort of problems. It's not actually doing anything except at the moment you attach and detach the object. Really, to my mind -- though I am open to correction -- I can't see anything about that particular script that would make a noticeable difference. And if there were enough scripts and avatars on the sim for the minuscule demand it places -- simply by existing in a rezzed object -- on sim resources to matter, I can guarantee there will also be several hundred scripts on the sim causing far more problems than that ever will.

I will give a run on my lashes tonight- I sometimes get folks that want a different attachment because of piercings and such- this wd be a boon! Thanks again