What do you do when the 'why's' just don't add up?
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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02-23-2009 11:19
From: Yumi Murakami Ugh - the example on that page is really horrible, though. I learned the term from a book called "The Undercover Economist" (which is really good), and it used the following example: Think about the market for used cars. A good used car ("a peach"  is, for this example, worth $2000. A bad one ("a lemon"  is worth nothing. The market is roughly 50% peaches and 50% lemons. The seller knows if their car is a peach or a lemon, but the buyer doesn't. Of course, every seller advertises that their car is a peach. So, suppose you're a buyer. How much would you pay for a used car? You would probably think it'd be reasonable to pay $1000, since it has a 50% chance of being worth $2000 and a 50% chance of being worthless. The problem is, if a seller has a peach, they know it is worth $2000, and there is no way they will sell it to you for $1000. The result is dramatic: there is NO MARKET for peaches! No seller will sell one for less than $2000, but no buyer will pay that much for a car that might be a lemon. The only way the peach sellers can sell their cars at a price that's acceptable to them is to do something that a lemon seller cannot do, to prove to buyers that their car is a peach. This can be "allowing the buyer to run tests on the car", but it can also be other things, such as having a fancy and expensive showroom. A heathly marketplace economy takes care of this problem through free flow of information. What drives your example is the fact that there is very little information that the customer has to use to make the purchase. The reason we don't see those dramatic results in the real world is that people can give themselves some basic education on how to choose a car; they can read consumer reports; they can ask their friends; and consumer laws protect them from that fifty-fifty proposition. The reason that the SL economy is so perilous is because consumer information just doesn't flow. It has in part to do with anonymity (one can dodge a bad reputation easily by creating an alt). It has in part to do with meaningless search results. It has in part to do with the steep learning curve of figuring out how SL works. One of the previous ideas you mentioned about providing a way to track actual sales isn't a bad idea. It's really one of the most important means of information generation in the real life market. A lot of consumers assume that if everyone else is buying it, it must be good; and it's not a bad assumption. Implementing the idea in a meaningful way is, of course, another problem.
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whyroc Slade
Sculpted and Blended
Join date: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 315
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02-23-2009 11:42
Speaking from the content creation side of things, you will really need to pay attention to the marketplace and how demand for content changes with literally every new user that signs up. Also recognize the life cycle of your products, looking for trends that will give you some clues as to what to make that people need. When you are thinking about content from a making money standpoint motivation becomes alot harder. What you may want to make will most likely not be bought up by the masses, some things that you make which may suck in your view may sell beyond your dreams. IN short, just keep making stuff... A simple rule I have found is fluffy cute and pretty sells better than grungy dark and nasty. IN my own creations (what i want to make) i like grungy stuff having spent alot of time in games like fallout gta etc.. but the market here is not the video game market, its something to remember when you are planning any project. I think what we are seeing now is a general confusion on the part of would be shoppers as to what quality content is, openness to customers support and education is even more important. After a saturation of new business erupted and invaded SL a year ago, its tapering off a little leaving plenty of holes IMO for a smart creator to fill. I think the average new user has a little more to spend in fact, perhaps they are a little older and possibly less tech savvy, but islands continue to sell, that concurrency number keeps climbing. SL is after all primarily a social world.. its always been a bit of a paradox to me that for my business to be successful as a creator i need to spend so much time away from SL, in Blender, PS etc. I really do enjoy chatting with people .. i try to find a balance i guess. In this respect it is sometimes a good idea to spin off a 'fun' business .. open a club for the fun of it.. find some way to re-engage with SL. A certain level of reinvestment is important either in time or money. A slightly ironic question I would pose to people who have noticed sales slipping etc.. what was the last thing you bought in SL? Me, it was the perfect sitter a couple weeks ago(fyi i have no relation to the creator  ) but it given me tons of enjoyment and allowed me to remember earlier days in SL and rediscover some of the basic things that made SL fun for me when i joined.. ie having some friends sit around a campfire and shoot the shizz. my 2 bits.. -W
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Nyoko Salome
kittytailmeowmeow
Join date: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,378
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02-23-2009 12:28
From: Amity Slade A heathly marketplace economy takes care of this problem through free flow of information. What drives your example is the fact that there is very little information that the customer has to use to make the purchase. The reason we don't see those dramatic results in the real world is that people can give themselves some basic education on how to choose a car; they can read consumer reports; they can ask their friends; and consumer laws protect them from that fifty-fifty proposition. The reason that the SL economy is so perilous is because consumer information just doesn't flow. It has in part to do with anonymity (one can dodge a bad reputation easily by creating an alt). It has in part to do with meaningless search results. It has in part to do with the steep learning curve of figuring out how SL works. :0 super-fascinating and interesting... now so how does the net/googling a car dealership come into play? past customer responses to previously buying there? assuming there's enough of a sampling size, then the customer -should- have some more info to go on... From: Amity Slade One of the previous ideas you mentioned about providing a way to track actual sales isn't a bad idea. It's really one of the most important means of information generation in the real life market. A lot of consumers assume that if everyone else is buying it, it must be good; and it's not a bad assumption. Implementing the idea in a meaningful way is, of course, another problem. and this is super-fascinating... does hippo or jevn have an overall '10 billion served' function, ala mcdonald's famous signage?? :0 i rolled my own, hmmm... hafta think about that... ;0 (p.s. well it wouldn't account for returns without some managerial input, but still a fun idea. 
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 Nyoko's Bodyoils @ Nyoko's Wears http://slurl.com/secondlife/Centaur/126/251/734/ http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/index.html "i don't spend nearly enough time on the holodeck. i should go there more often and relax." - deanna troi
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Nyoko Salome
kittytailmeowmeow
Join date: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,378
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02-23-2009 12:32
From: whyroc Slade A simple rule I have found is fluffy cute and pretty sells better than grungy dark and nasty. lol! ;0 just to say, people here tend to put on their fluffy cute to -go- to places grungy, dark and nasty... ;0 not that that's not a legitimate thing to do. at least, for themselves, where and when they feel like it. 
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 Nyoko's Bodyoils @ Nyoko's Wears http://slurl.com/secondlife/Centaur/126/251/734/ http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/index.html "i don't spend nearly enough time on the holodeck. i should go there more often and relax." - deanna troi
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
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02-24-2009 06:36
Atom, I really sympathise with what you are going through. It's rough when you feel demoralised like that. I'm not familiar with your work, but from trying to read between the lines it looks like you are doing design work - textures and so on. i think that trying to make a RL living wage from SL is a long shot at bets - it might work for a while, but it's not a viable long-term strategy for most. What I would suggest is that you leverage you SL work to boost up your resume (CV) to get a RL job that can earn you enough money so that you don't have to worry about SL any more. Then you can reinvent your SL activities to make it fun, and fresh and push yourself further. It sounds like you feel like you have got yourself into a rut and you need something different, but are concerned about changing anything and impacting your livelihood. Don't know if this helps - armchair therapist, here 
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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02-24-2009 11:02
From: Nyoko Salome :0 super-fascinating and interesting... now so how does the net/googling a car dealership come into play? past customer responses to previously buying there? assuming there's enough of a sampling size, then the customer -should- have some more info to go on... One of the things that I think XStreetSL provides as a good service is customer ratings. I can list all kinds of flaws with such a system- it can be gamed; not everyone is going to give a serious review; no consensus on how stars match to quality; small sample sizes; probably more if I sat and thought. However, taking clues from the stars has worked well for me. When I have bought items with 4+ stars, I have been pleased with those products. The buyer comments are even more valuable. I get an easy sense from reading comments how credible they are, and a surprising number of them are actually helpful. XStreetSL provides about the only means of good consumer information on Second Life products that I can find. And, after being burned on purchases early in my Second Life career, I probably would have stopped consumer spending there altogether had I not discovered XStreetSL. The review system on XStreetSL is something I hope Linden Lab doesn't mess up. If there were more such sources of consumer information (and consumers were aware of the information), the Second Life "economy" would greatly benefit. Googling is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, readily available information greatly benefits consumers. On the other hand, it is only a benefit if consumers can meaningly sort through it (good search tools) and can evaluate it (proper education and understanding of how the search works). I find that most people aren't very good at using Google to find information. Further, having had to give myself a crash-course in Search Engine Optimzation recently, I have some new insight on how search results come up. It's not as much about "information making itself free" as I had previosly thought.
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Dnali Anabuki
Still Crazy
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,633
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02-24-2009 16:53
I think that being on SL and doing a biz here while you are in school before you get a RL job is could be useful for the following reasons:
1. Shows you how you manage time..do you spend a lot of time on a texture that is small? Sells for very little? Research? Waste time?
2. Shows you how you like to do business.
3. Teaches you customer service.
4. Money management and biz planning.
5. Marketing and networking.
There is probably more (like dumping something that doesn't sell for something that does, etc).
So that when you do go out in the RL you will have learned some things that will help you be more competitive and successful without having spent the money or time a RL business would have cost.
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The price of apathy is to be ruled by evil men--Plato
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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02-24-2009 18:43
I think the reason we put up with it is because many of us it as entertainment and a hobby. I would think 99% of the content creators are doing it on a hobby basis? There is so much stuff out there, most is crap, but some use months to get something right and then are thrilled to sell something, even for almost nothing. Some create great stuff over and over but still see SL as a hobby and not an income. That will bring the price down. For many things, aside from what I wear, I never buy anything either, its easier to make it than to look for it. I am not saying you are wrong to feel how you do. I used to sell things as well (enough to buy me a sim and a WAY to large inventory), but I made the choice when sculpties came along to keep SL as a hobby project and not to invest too much time and money in trying to compete. If you can compete ... good for you, look at what sells and create the same style (not suggesting you should rip someone of (rather the opposite), but if cutish fluffy pink outfits sells better than dark jeans then make cutish fluffy pink outfits , if villas and beachhouses better dungeouns then make them etc). Or better yet, read fashion mags, interior mags etc and see what is coming and put your personal touch on that. Or just accept SL as a hobby and take another job. I am not saying this is true for you (the OP) , but too many people dream of making an income from SL, while very few actually succeed or could expect to do so. I used to share that dream too (while I was taking money out, now I am happy as long as it still covers all costs and give me some pocketmoney). If you really want to make an income here, you would have to be very talentend, very skilled, either come up with one great idea that seperates you from the rest or to have a commerical, still personal touch. In addtion you have to have enough money to buy the programs needed to keep up to speed and support an area where you can sell these things. If you arent willing to do that, just see it is a hobby, as somewhere you will learn skills that you can use later, as somewhere to have fun. I still love creating, but I dont sell anymore. However the skills I got in SL landed me my RL dreamjob. 
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Tabliopa Underwood
Registered User
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 719
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02-24-2009 19:19
Atom, now is the time for you to dig deep into yourself and go even harder.
Being a designer is no different to being a musician. When we are young, we all want to be a rockstar and we get all the gears and we give it go ya =) But we soon find out that being a rockstar is hard work because to be a super rockstar (like get paid) we also have to be a musician, and a 3-chord strum in the school hall that our parents applaud us for, doesnt cut it in the bigtime. (i not saying that you only got a 3-chord strum k, I just using this as an example)
In real a few years ago there was a band of young guys in highschool and they enter their band Blindspott into the School RockQuest like 1000s other kids do every year. They never won anything, but they keep coming back and never won anything ever. But they kept on practising and doing it.
When they leave school they get no help from anyone then either. They not get any industry grants like lots other young bands did. They got no record contract or even any interest from that direction. They didnt get any mentions in the music mags either. They did it hard.
But they not quit. They grit their teeth and sucked all up the disappointments, and kept on practising their craft, because they believed in themselves. And because they did they grew into musicians. They end up making their own debut album, videos and support tour all by themselves, that they paid for themselves out of their day jobs. And their day came. And they went on to make it onto the mainstage at the Big Day Out along with their international peers just like them, with all of the rewards that come with that.
And when they played to 1000s and 1000s that day, I stood in the crowd with some of their highschool peers who had the raw talent, the promise and won all the prizes way back then. And while they were enornously proud of their friends accomplishment there was a liitle bit of hurt in their eyes for themselves over what might have been had they not given up when it got hard. And I have seen the same mix of pride and hurt in peoples eyes in the crowd, when local bands like The Tuesdays, Motocade and The Datsuns have also played on the stage at the Big Day Out along with the big international acts.
In the great big world of digital design, SL is not the mainstage. Is more like a underground club that bands fresh out of school play in for peanuts if theyre lucky. Its where they cut their teeth. A few make it. Most dont. Make it where? Make it to a paying gig at the pub down the road (a designer for a game company) where the demands of the audience are even greater and the competition really starts to kick in. And most dont make it out of that pit either onto the mainstage of the bigtime.
Like these peanuts-earning musicians and hopeful rockstars, we all reach the point that you are at now, many times even. Recognise that you are a student in real playing the underground club practising your craft. Even if the PA is crap and the few people in the club are more interested in getting off their faces than in what youre doing, as good a musician (designer) as you are now. If you quit playing the club now, you maybe end up in the crowd in front of the mainstage with hurt in your eyes.
Now, at the darkest moment, is the time to suck it up and go even harder. The mainstage is waiting. Someone is going to be on it. Might as well be you ya.
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Anya Ristow
Vengeance Studio
Join date: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,243
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02-24-2009 21:12
FWIW I got your profile and visited your top pick, which says From: someone Commercial buildings, mall systems, cinemas, sim development kits and terra maps, 40 prim theme homes, original art, and a few random themed items and household items. and couldn't find those things. Are the shops at Mouseworld yours or do you rent them out?
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