Trying to understand ghosts

I've never thought too much about them before, but, exactly what IS it that goes on with ghosts?

How do they happen? Is there any way to deal with one other than a sim restart, or bringing in the active avatar?

Can we interact with them at all? How do they stay online so long? Why do they keep people from logging in? Why do they show up as online, but not on my radar?

Incidentally, I've learned about a way to see "invisible ghosts" Open up your mini map and fly away from the ghost till it's out of your draw distance Then fly back.

I've seen ghosts and on one occasion I became one. I crashed and relogged and the other people at the place where I'd been said I was still there but not responding. After relogging I returned to the place I'd been and the ghost disappeared.

There must be different kinds of ghosts. Because I've experienced ghosting where once my avatar's ghost was within my draw distance, SL would immediately crash. Even when approaching from the other side of a region border from the ghost.

That one required restarting of both regions to finally resolve. I don't exactly understand why, unless the child agent data was not updated when the adjacent region was restarted since the ghost was obviously bad data to begin with.

I see dead people.

I always thought ghosting was due to a connection to a sim that the sim or whatever isn't letting go of. So, when someone complains of it, I usually tell them to restart their modem/routers first and then if that doesn't work, ask LL or the estate owner/manager to restart the sim.

But if you want to have fun with a ghost, you can dress 'em up with prims and go from there.

I was ghosted very recently and didn't realise for quite a while, as I'm unable to log in frequently at the moment. I knew there was a problem when friends started emailing to ask if I was OK, because I was showing as permanently online but not responding to anyone!

I've experienced temporarily remaining online when a region has gone down unexpectedly, but there was no apparent instability in this case. Clearing cache and all the usual stuff had no effect, so LL restarted the region (mainland). I knew the coordinates of my last location, but the re-start didn't work, which LL couldn't explain.

It was only when I sent an alt inworld to do a bit of detective work that I found myself hovering a whole region away. Apart from the prim hair and shoes, I was a grey ghost that my alt could pass completely through, yet I continued to 'breathe' - very spooky.

Re-starting that region solved the problem, but I still have no explanation for why it happened in the first place, nor how I ended up in the next region.

I'm used to avatars sticking around for a few seconds after they log off. And I've seen things like avatars stuck in walls and bouncing that created a ghost that wouldn't let someone log in. I shot that one with a push gun and it disappeared--solving the problem.

Lately I've been encountering different sorts of ghosts. Invisible ones. And, yeah--the ones you can walk through.

A few friends of mine have been caught in the ones that wouldn't go offline and kept them from logging in.

But what does it tell us when an avatar shows up as online, can be seen but not touched, but doesn't show up on lsl radar devices?

Be afraid... be very afraid...

I just saw a new improved ghost a couple of days ago. We where on a canoe and she decided to paddle. We both crashed. I relogged and she was still in boat paddling. She showed online and showed on radar, yet she was sitting next to me in RL and not even running SL client. What was really strange was that the canoe was still being paddle which takes a keyboard input to move. After she relogged, she was placed in another region, but her ghost was still happily paddling in cirlces from my point of view. IM, pay, etc. all still worked. I sent her a TP and when the real avatar showed up the ghost faded away.

"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is realm as vast as space, and as timeless, as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow; between science and superstition; and it lies between the pit of man's fear, and the summit of his knowledge. These are dimensions of the imagination... it is an area which we call... The Twilight Zone."

Yep, happened to me the same way one time.

Also, the region next to my parcel is Linden ocean. Frequently I see a single green dot in the exact center, and when I go to see who it is, it's always a "Caspered" avatar who does not respond to IMs--never the same avatar twice. The ghost can remain for days unless I put in a ticket to restart that region. I figure these ghosts are avatars who crashed sailing across a region border, but I don't know. I never see the green dots in the center of the other Linden ocean regions to either side of that region. It's like that region is the Burmuda Square.

Sometimes an IM to the ghosting person will knock them completely out of world as the computer catches up with the idea of them not being there. It doesn't always work though.

If they are a true ghost - you can walk right thru them - then I've only seen a sim restart or the true avi showing up as working to get rid of the ghost.

The other type, where there is still a physical avatar there that you can push around, if the options of paying them money or sending an IM ro TP request does not work, orbitting them almost always does. Note that this type of ghosted avi usually keeps the person from logging back in until it goes away, whereas a true ghost quite often does not.

So. . .I guess ghosts are just more SL wierdness that doesn't necessarily follow any specific pattern, and no one really understands.

/me rummages through inventory looking for orbiter.

or you could come over and we'll have a SLeance...

i hear this all the time..

She must be a ghost..she has been here for hours and has not moved..

then when they get really really close i do this

Oh i think she moved...

they start to look even closer...then BOOOOOO!!!! run away run away!!!!

it takes a while to set up..but the facial expressions and color changes in the avatars are well worth it..

How do they happen?
Most likely an improper log out procedure (a crashed client for example).

dealing with them...
From my chair, a sim restart is probably the only way to do it, or maybe relogging.

Can you interact with them?
Short answer, no. However IMing them might help 'finish' the log out process, allowing someone not being able to log in to get back on.

How do they stay online for extended periods?
Well, there's quite a few different servers that come together to make second life happen. Mainly, you have the user server, grid server, asset server, inventory server, message server, and the region server (the simulator software). All of these entities are made aware of your presence when you log on, and what's happening with ghosts is a client crash at the right time, or possibly some other glitch, is causing certain servers to think you're still online, hence, appearing to be online in your communicate window. Somehow, because of the glitch, the simulator seems to think you're still there, therefore you still see the ghost being rendered when perhaps the user server thinks you're logged off. I'm not sure what server or servers the LSL function that powers radars (sensor functions and events), but apparently, that server thinks you're not there, so your name doesn't get returned from a sensor sweep.

In short, there's multiple parts to SL, and some parts think you're still there while others don't.

given the inconsistency of when it happens and the trouble reproducing it, I'd guess it's a race condition with some unchecked reference, placing the avatar at a location in sim after it's left. since no other sim sends a message that it's now being handled there, it just doesn't go away. or possibly some malformed out of order presence timestamp (and the cleanup code misses it because of the malformation or missequencing).... that's my guess anyway

cool

IM and Pay still worked?

This time last year you could send a ghost an IM and it would disappear.

These ghosts are getting above themselves; they will be demanding money with menaces soon! They must have been watching too much Phantom of the Opera!

I noticed that ghosted avatars show up as blank names on my radar. The radar senses an agent, even shows its location, but there is no name. That might also explain the quite high number of blank names that show up in my slbuzz.com stats list.

Thanks for starting this thread DW.... good to get everybody's input. There are just so many variables to take into consideration, there does not seem to be one reason why a ghost would be created.

My expensive radar device doesn't show up a name, just a location, when a green dot is present, indicating some kind of ghosting - but the free radar from Crystal gadgets will show up a name.

When the real avatar returns to the place where they have ghosted, it causes a paradox and usually clears the ghost. Unfortunately there are many who cannot log in (I was unable to log in for 3 days before my presence was found and the region reset).

So, if you see a ghostly presence, try and find out who it belongs to and just send them an IM to say, if they are having problems logging in, to contact http://www.secondlife.com/support. They should then get it in their email.

Those mysterious green dots that are placed in the centre of Linden protected oceans are landbots. They are usually at around 205m high or 750m high. Often appear as clouds.

There is currently a really beautiful ghost at Mare 110,159, a little way in the air. The avatar it belongs to seems to be having no problems logging in at all, fortunately. So if you've never seen a ghost before, go take a look. But be gentle with her, remember ghosts are real people too (LOL)

That explains the one I kept seeing a few months back, hovering over the Linden ocean sim next to the one where I have a plot. At first I thought it was someone's ghosted av as it had a name tag and a profile box just like anyone else - although that was blank - but nothing to indicate a Linden bot, as far as I recall.
It was always just a cloud you could fly through and couldn't push, but was there for several weeks and survived at least one rolling restart. Last time I thought to look on the map it had gone.
--
Aes

She was a beauty...
But there is a nice one at Picus SIM... right on the SIM edge.. where the road meets with Alompra SIM.
If anyone wants to go and see what a ghost looks like
(they're people just like you or I)

And I "saw" a ghost today. When I logged on, there was an avatar showing up in my minimap and my MystiTool Radar not far from my house, not moving. She was about 15 meters up. I got as close to her as I could (according to the radar and minimap) but was totally unable to see any sign of an avatar. I IMd her and SL said she was offline, but she didn't disappear from the sim.