Why id land so expensive?

Yes, you can.

I usually wouldn't do this but as I don't currently have any unoccupied mainland rentals, It's generally cheaper to rent mainland from me than it is to buy mainland and have a premium account.

i think thats true in most cases.


**i was just suprised marcel didnt know you can rent mainland**


.

US$72/year - L$300/week == US$1.00/month

You rent a 512 for L$260/mo?

US$72 a year == US$72

A 512 from me costs around half that, but I did say generally.

Yes, but you don't *just* get 512m of tier for that. With L$ freely convertible to US$, the L$ that come with the premium account can't be neglected.

36 will always be less than 72, always. If you want to get pedantic why do you ignore that I said "Generally". I offer a weekly rate, Linden Lab do not. My weekly rate works out cheaper than Linden Lab's monthly rate.

I'm not being pedantic... I'm just tired of people acting as if premium accounts were so damn expensive. If you pay per year the net cost over that year is US$1.00/month, for real support and 512 square meters of tier. It would be nice if it was effectively free, like it used to be, but it's still a pretty good deal.

Premium accounts are not expensive, it was never my intention to suggest they were.

I've been meaning to do this for a while, so here are some graphs:


These represent cost of tier plus annual membership fees (US$72) minus L$300/wk stipend. An exchange rate of 260 is used throughout.

What got me motivated to work on this is the recurring claim that Estate fees (US$295/sim/mo) are much higher than Mainland tier--and perhaps there's some validity to such a claim for commercial Estates compared to their very largest competitors in the Mainland rental market. When one examines these charts, however, it's clear that the vast majority of Mainland must be held at substantially higher cost per sq.m. than Estates.

And yet Jack claimed in one office hour that revenue per Mainland sim is very slightly *less* than Estate sims. Granted, there are a lot of bonus 512s out there, and a handful of full-sim-or-larger Mainland rental outfits, and a very few charter members, but looking at these numbers it's damned difficult to see how Mainland could possibly generate less revenue per sim without also deducting Linden infrastructure, water sims, probably Linden Village and the event sims, too. I have a sense that a tremendous amount of stuff is balanced exclusively against Mainland tier.

expensive? to cater to people like you LL devalued mainland holdings by nearly 70%, then turned around a few months later and increased openspace tier by 66%! you think i have any tears left for you?
my advise is not to invest in land full stop. ll WILL screw you over on a whim when the urge overcomes them.

But we are "investing" to use it like when we join a golf club or a swimming club or night club. I dont really expect to get back the money I spent - I just use the facilities. I think a lot of people look simply at the commercial aspects of sl and lose track of the fun.

theres nothing fun about having your openspace stolen out from under you or seeing your mainland holdings drop fron $10 to $3/m.
my advise is that unless you own a business of some sort, rent, pure and simple.

I rent approx 1500 sq. m of mainland: not much, but enough. It costs me about the same as what it costs me to buy one pint of beer in the pub once a week. I don't think that's expensive at all.

Furthermore, whenever any mainland changes hands it is contributing to two residents' tier liabilities.

Wait a second, are you one of those OpenSpace owners allegedly responsible for the drop of mainland from $10.00 to $3.00?

I'm sorry, I can't keep these forum memes straight.

Qie - thanks for this incredibly useful chart!

It wasn't just the Open Space sims that led to mainland prices dropping like a stone. It started when LL decided to create 3 new mainland continents to the East. Open spaces sims between Apr- Sept 08 just compounded to the price being driven down....but the real leveller was LL dumping a few thousand new mainland sims during mid-2007 to mid 2008 which by far had the most impact on reducing mainland pricing.

Try not to change history...if you search hard enough, you'll find RA threads and blogs about it. LL felt that by spring of 2007, mainland pricing had spiralled out of control....and that the entry level for new land owners was far to high......hence the creation of the East mainland continents in their bid to drive prices back down. (Supply & demand)

Sorry I disagree as a buyer and seller of mainland during that time.

Up until the openspace invasion, I was able to buy mainland and sell it at a profit, even to people like Sarah Nerd who pay a lower price because they sell it on.

By far the biggest effect on pricing was the explosion of openspace sims. The next biggest effect was ad farms (thankfully a thing of the past)

Do your research. Their are LL Blogs, where Jack Linden felt that by early 2007 (springtime) mainland prices had escalated out of control.....hence the justification to increasing Mainland supply by adding 1000's of new Mainland sims to the East. It was not uncommon to see small 512 sqm plots going for 15k to 20K....and not necessarily on the protected coastline either.

Open Space sims overall had less impact in driving prices down than increasing land supply over a period of 1 year+ to the East

From a consumer point of view though, this means nothing. I can't buy 1024M of estate land from Linden Lab, the option isn't available, so the only fair comparison to a consumer is how much a full sim's worth of mainland costs compared to estate land.

Hmmh- can't find all the LL Blogs going back to 2006/07...as they have changed the format....unless there is an "Archive" section i miss viewing.


I do however have links to Mainland pricing on XStreet forums where some light is shed regarding mainland pricing.......if you read some of those threads, you'll be able to piece it altogether



the below thread is telling and traces the start of dumping new Mainland sims

[url=https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10278&highlight=mainland+pricing[/url]

and here again...you can pinpoint the start of prices dropping around Feb/Mar 2007 because of the new Mainland sims and the increase in purchasing of Estate sims

[url=https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11176&highlight=mainland+pricing[/url]

It certainly means more than "nothing."

To be a "fair comparison" at the full-sim level, Estates must lose the ability to "sell" covenanted leased parcels, set a prim bonus factor, list those parcels on Land Sales, restart sims, see Top Scripts, region-ban residents, use telehub routing, choose island terrain textures and RAW files, terraform > 4m, change the day-night cycle, choose island location away from neighboring sims, etc., etc.

So, yeah, it is of necessity a bit "apples and oranges"--but in a market where these particular fruits have a lot of substitutability. That is, the very high price of mid-level Mainland tier is the main attractor for a very large proportion of renters, both Estate and Mainland: a more rational Mainland tier structure would hurt Estates and large Mainland rental outfits. (Indeed, I suspect that's why it remains as arcane as it is, and as high-priced.)

And yet the majority of Mainland is owned in those very high priced mid-tier sizes. It's quite correct that any competing offer by an Estate owner could not provide the same "backed by LL" assurance. But they can offer the same number of prims and/or the same parcel size with any or all the aforementioned list of Estate-only features. It's not identical, sure, but it's certainly not a meaningless comparison.

So anyway I'm not arguing that Mainland tier is too high relative to Estates; I agree with Jack that it's a much more intricate and delicate balancing act than that. Rather, my point is to counter the self-serving claims of certain odious Estate owners (you know who I mean) that their fees subsidize the Mainland, or even that it's somehow unfair of LL to finally address longstanding problems of Mainland ownership.

Robin Linden blog Jan 2007. The problem was identified then along with suggested solution



Jack Linden in Feb 2007, clearly states their intentions 2/3rd down ith 1st blog below...and through time has driven the sqm pricing down through land supply.

[url=https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/02/21/first-land-program-to-end[/url]

[url=https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/08/14/rates-of-mainland-supply[/url]

[url=https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/10/18/update-on-mainland-supply-and-auctions[/url]

[url=https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/12/07/land-supply-and-pricing-for-late-2007-and-through-q1-2008[/url]

Basically LL like Mainland sqm pricing to be around 6-7L per sqm.

Is it true that Luskwood has estate powers? Certainly in older sims like Nova Albion and Shermerville you have the better terraform abilities. However we're talking USD$100 a month difference here, USD$1200 a year, it's not good value.



However I simply can't rent estate land at the same price as mainland, no two ways about this. Some companies rent their mainland at the same price as estate, big companies too and fair play to them but at some stage people are going to see that mainland is cheaper. The margins are not the same. So whereas mainland and estate land can offer better deals, mainland always wins.



I agree 100% that estate fees don't subsidise mainland, that's a ridiculous claim and I've said many times that the average take from a mainland sim and an estate sim is roughly the same.