Seeking a script and wondering how much to pay a scripter

This is a twofold question.

1, I am seeking of a script that will refresh temporary rezzed items so they are not deleted and stay rezzed. If one exists please send me a landmark or post a link here. I want to attach it to some items I design for my land.

2, If not then I would like to know the going hourly rate to pay a scripter so I can offer the correct amount, a few opinions would be useful.

Thank you for your time.

1. you can`t
2. can`t be done

temp rezzed prims are deleted by the server and for them to stay rezzed, they need to be rerezed
making them normal prims and back to temp and they will count towards the prim limit and as you go over it, some nasty side effects will happen like random prims being returned

dedicated temp rez = evil, these buggers are laggers
temp rez to only rez when touched (product review) = good

Thank you for your answers, I will elaborate on my question.



1, Then I am seeking the dedicated temp rez, I have bought two such items from shops, containing many prims that stay on the land through each garbage routine, without being touched. I had thought this would be done with a refresh of the item but however its done, that’s the script I want to purchase.

2, I am seeking the going rate to hire a scripter roughly or people's experiences, that’s all in my second question. Do I pay 10k an hour or 2 etc, do people pay for the finished work or as they work on it?

I have begun advertising more formally in the thread below but answers are still appreciated in this thread

/118/9b/287365/1.html

I would expect such scripts to be available for free. They're trivial, and you shouldn't have to pay much for it.

But the point of the first response is that these temp rez mechanisms can easily introduce unreasonable lag, and are often used in a way that violates the spirit and intent of prim limits. I won't say always, and there are plenty of discussions in the forum on the subject. But because they get abused so much - probably much more often than their legitimate uses - people are likely to question your intent.

Once upon a time, when we had renter stalls at The Mausoleum, one renter used a temp rez script to keep his prim intensive build in place. He told me the script was carefully timed to rerez the build so that it looked like it was there continuously. But if you watched it awhile I could see the graphics flicker every few seconds myself. At the time, there were many threads about the ethical use of those scripts and I determined it probably wasn't good for the Echo sim or fair to the other renters. So I asked him to take it down. My point is that it can be done but like the above posters, is easily abused, and I do not know who scripted it for him nor is he around much anymore.

I have a lotus pond. The blossoms are temp rezzed at a random location and rotation (so they don't all look alike). Every 50 seconds, they are re-rezzed t the same location and rotation. Yes, there is a barely noticible (to me, anyway) flicker.

Many people are strongly opposed to any use of temp rez.

IM me and I will drop a lotus garden on you...

lee

Thank you, I will have a search.

There are temp prim limits on land and a formula for working them out, so they cannot be abused. I don’t see how you can violate the spirit of your own land when working to the limits set by the system, if your renting someone elses land and working to another set of rules, then fair enough you conform to their systems.

I think I was pretty clear but I will state again clearly. My intent is to decorate my large estate with some temporary prims, under the limit allowed by linden labs. I am buying up the sim bit by bit and will continue to do when able.



The ones I have don’t seem to flicker but I’ll pay attention, I suspect there has to be some refresh under the minutes time ticker.



Thank you, I’ll drop you an IM if I still have no luck.

Finally to all, I will not get into an ethical debate on working within a system I’ve paid good money for, its not treading over some unwritten line, temporary prims are allowed and legislated within the current system. I am respectful when on others land but equally whether people like what I build on my own land is not a concern of mine, especially as I own a huge part of the sim.

Back on topic, I’m still looking for a scripter or a script, I’ll post when I have found one.

It used to be safe to use 60 seconds to rez new prims. When they changed the limits on temp-on prims they also made it so that the prims are deleted faster when the sim is under a heavier load. I now use 50 seconds like Lee does and it is pretty safe. But there are still times when still this isn't exactly fast enough.

It will also help if your rezzer has a sensor and will only rezz prims if there is someone around instead of non-stop 24 hours per day.

Just a minor note here: The hard sim limit is still 15000, whether temp or not. So temp-rezzed prims will block new "normal" prims from being rezzed if that limit is hit, and the formula for calculating the temp limit was changed a while ago, without much of the documentation being updated. So it is possible to rez a quite large amount of temps (half the parcel prim limit plus 400, to a maximum of 1000).
It is sort of hinted that temps will be removed to make room for "normal" prims when needed, but that is not actually the case.
So that is one possible abuse; rezzing 400 prims from a 16 sqm parcel and thus limiting the sim's "normal" prims to 14600.

Another possible "abuse" is the question of whether temp rezzers cause a lot of lag or not. Practically, it is not the script which causes lag, but the communications spike when prims are rezzing. Again, that's mostly an issue when rezzing a ridiculous amount of prims.

Where the line between "reasonable" and "abuse" goes has been the cause of many flame wars, so I'll keep out of *that* discussion, but don't drive temps as hard as the formula actually allows, or you *will* smack the sim badly.

I assume you're referring to the per sim limits, which can't be assigned to individual parcels. Thus they can be abused by one parcel owner at the expense of other parcel owners on the same sim. I think Tali's post explains this well.


If 'your own land' refers to an entire sim, then you're quite right. This is the main situation where temp rezzers are acceptable, even if they introduce lag. But if it refers to a parcel on a sim, then you can violate the spirit of prim limits because the system limits aren't perfect.


Actually, this is the first time you've used the words 'estate' and 'sim', so until now, it's never been clear whether you were talking about all of a sim or part of it.

The problem with relying on these limits is simple: It's not possible for Linden Lab to implement a perfect limit and still allow the features provided by temporary objects (not to be confused with temp rezzers, which are a particular way of using temporary objects). That's why the TOS has phrases such as "unreasonable or disproportionately large load". The limits imposed by the software are a good starting point, but they're not the only limits.


I don't want to get into a debate either. I'm simply explaining the situation as best I can. Certainly once you own the entire sim, you should feel free to use them all you want. Until then, it's important to understand that some of the things you do on your land can have a negative impact on the other land owners on the sim. You may not run into any problems, your usage may not have any such impact, your neighbors may not even care. But if they do, and they complain to LL, it's possible that LL will make you take them down. That's not a value judgment, it's just the way things are.

Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised that this hasn't turned into a flame war. Once upon a time, a request for temp rezzers would likely result in a large quantity of name calling, with brief interruptions for intelligent debate.

Firstly, can anyone answer my second question? As it seems were moving a bit further off topic from my request and I could use the advice before paying anyone too much or being too cheap.



This would be something I’d pay a scripter for certainly, a sensor built into the prims to only rez when someone is there, I don’t have a huge amount of people over so this would be an acceptable compromise for when they were.



Are you 100% certain on everything your posting? From your tone it sounds like you’re a bit unsure as to what happens when temp prims reach this hard limit. For instance if you buy a 1 prim thing product, the store which got me interested (and now have a free plug), they state that although the prim limits can go over the threshold for the land, there are no adverse effects. I know this doesn’t specifically state the sims limit as a whole but when you say its hinted, can you be more precise? Do the temporary prims get deleted first or not? It will be one or the other.



As far as lag goes I don’t care about lag on my own land, nobody else apart from one other person is currently allowed on either parcel or area I own anyway. Both area’s are large enough for people to be too far away for it to effect anyone, so its simply not an issue.



True, there is a lot of conflicting information out there on the limits and such, now I am more aware of their overall place within the sims limit I will use more measured amounts. That said, I will be using temp rezzers in proportion to the amount of land I own within each of the two regions I am in, so I still require a scripters services.



I would argue it is perfectly possible for them to do so, taking the main reasons for concern to be ‘an unreasonable or disproportionately large load’, they just haven’t yet. You could simply reduce the amount of temporary prims significantly or better still have them be the first to be removed if a sim reaches the prim limit. If this is not the case already of course, if it is then there is no problem and the majority of the point of our discussion is mute.



Of course some things you do on your land can hurt your neighbors, there scores of things you can do without thought. I’ve bought and sold many parcels before with my older account and I’m often willing to work with them. However many people are mature enough to speak to you about their concerns before going over your head, as nobody likes to cause bad feeling to the person next door.




I would not waste my time answering an obvious bait or nonsense comment so have no fear *smiles*, I only answer people who think about what their posting or have something constructive to say.

I don't mean to speak for Tali, but: It will be one or the other *today*, but whatever it is today, it was different before, and may be again. To be honest, I thought there was a recent change that allowed temp prims to exceed the 15000 prim sim limit, sorta like attached prims can (and as vehicles were at one point intended to but AFAIK still don't). Anyway, the point is that no responsible scripter would promise the ability to exceed these limits for any extended time, the limits themselves (especially on parcel temp prim count) having changed rather dramatically several times in recent memory.

All that said, I once made a script that tracked visitors and activated temp-rezzers only within reasonable draw distance of them as they moved around. With different traffic patterns, I'd do that differently, and rez and delete permanent prims; that may be a better option for most applications. I think that if the typical visitor dwell exceeds two refreshes of the temp prims, it would be better to rez and de-rez permanent prims, at the expense of having to include an llDie script in the rez'd objects. (Rezzing scripted objects seems to be much more costly than the same objects unscripted--at least when I was doing this, pre-Mono.)

(Sorry, I have no idea what you should pay a scripter. I stopped scripting for pay, and never could figure out what to charge.)

Yes, I'm sure. My point is that the original documentation is a bit vague, hinting that the intended functionality is to remove temps when room is needed for "normal" prims, but that is *not* how it currently works. The formula I cite is given by Andrew Linden here: /54/28/132362/1.html#post1247906
and the 15000 prim hard limit is well documented here:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1166


One problem here is that most resources are shared across the entire sim, not across parcels, so script and IO hits everybody in the sim.

As for the second question, about prices, I think people are rather wary about quoting anything here, because it is *wildly* individual. Some script for the challenge, as a hobby; others charge something in, say, the 15000-30000 L$ range, which seems fairly expensive in SL terms but is really peanuts in RL wages, and others again see it as a RL project and charge RL salaries accordingly.
The problem is that SL is really geared towards mass production and micro-transactions, so one-off, exclusive custom jobs are rarely viable.

I think that's a really good idea, both likely being cheaper in sim resources, and circumventing any discussions about using "too many prims", using only what the parcel normally allows, but focusing the details where needed.

Caveating this with what everyone has said about lag, etc, here is what the scripting library has:

/15/a3/126304/1.html

I do think one can use temp rezzers intelligently, but you would definitely want to check with your neighbors and sim owner before installing one.

Unfortunately there is no set answer for question #2. Some scripters who could handle this script may charge as little as $L50, while we have some scripters who charge in excess of $L20,000 per hour.

Qie is correct (as usual). Temp prims are no longer counted in a sim's 15,000 prim limit, so using temp rezzers to exceed a parcel's normal prim limit no longer uses the prims that other parcels should have available to them.

There are temp good rezzers available to buy, so there's no need to pay a scripter to write one, and question #2 doesn't need an answer. Just do a search on 'temp rezzer' and you'll find them easily.

Then I apologize for the wrong information. I was referring to the still-open and internally assigned Jira issue. Can somebody in the know say anything about why it is still open? Something more to be done until it's entirely handled, or simply an oversight?

I've no idea about that. The only information I have about it is that it was listed in the blog as of the things that changed in an update a few months ago.

Jesse is correct - there is no set going rate. It depends a lot on the complexity of the script, the scripter creating it and resale rights that you negotiate. What you are asking for doesn't seem to be too complex.

You will pay far, far more for exclusivity. Some scripters will take on a project just for the challenge and charge you minimal fees -- especially if they see a lot of resale value in the script. If you put a post in Products/Services Wanted at this forum and SLU, usually you will find someone.

Be sure to write out a full scope of work so that potential scripter can evaluate exactly what it is you want the script to do, which permissions it will be delivered with, etc...

Thank you for the answers all and I am glad we established how temporary prims fit in with the regular prim limit, there is so much misinformation about, some solid answers and discussion was appreciated.

The blog announcement mentioning it is here:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/07/havok4-early-adopter-update-rc0-of-the-new-second-life-simulator-with-15-fixes-2008-03-07/
and in another Jira:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1477?focusedCommentId=49026#action_49026
Kelly Linden talks about having fixed both (the context being a mention of SVC-1166), so I guess the still-open SVC-1166 is simply a mistake, unless something has been rolled back since the Havok "early adopter" releases.

In any case, my actual point still stands: Don't rely on "the formula allowing you" something and expecting that to be the limit for non-abusive "reasonable use". In fact, under the current rules as stated, the *formula* allows you to cut a sim into 4096 16 sqm parcels, each rezzing 400 temps, for a grand total of more than 1.6 million prims!
-Anybody has a sim available for running a test of that? It would be fun to see what actually happens.

...not 15,000. 15,000 are reserved for hair, shoes, jewelry, and talking genitals.

A few hundred or even a thousand temp rez prims is not the problem.

Why bother finding a scripter, why not just buy a temp rezzer? I had a lot of success with the JVA one, only rezzes when an av is in view. always seemed low lag when I watched it in debug settings and didn't suffer from flashing prims.