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Offshore SL: Good Idea or Not?

Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
09-25-2007 09:56
From: Colette Meiji
US customers would.


And then good luck following the money trail to ol' Slimey, when they buy (or earn!) their L$ elsewhere, long before visiting Tijuana. Maybe that is doable, and demonstrable in court, but I have to ask somebody to show me how. And if it is doable, seems to me it is then the US citizen who is at risk.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-25-2007 10:01
From: Har Fairweather
And then good luck following the money trail to ol' Slimey, when they buy (or earn!) their L$ elsewhere, long before visiting Tijuana. Maybe that is doable, and demonstrable in court, but I have to ask somebody to show me how. And if it is doable, seems to me it is then the US citizen who is at risk.


Its not necessary - If "Second Life" becomes labeled a gambling site - Sammy will never see any money from US customers.


The only way Offshore anything can work is if "Second Life" becomes decentralized , like the web is.

Which will NEVER happen with Linden Labs controlling the only currency and the asset server.
Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
09-25-2007 10:57
From: Colette Meiji
Its not necessary - If "Second Life" becomes labeled a gambling site - Sammy will never see any money from US customers.


The only way Offshore anything can work is if "Second Life" becomes decentralized , like the web is.

Which will NEVER happen with Linden Labs controlling the only currency and the asset server.


Never say never. Decentralization in some form and to some degree is exactly what I am thinking of. I suspect LL is too, long term.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-25-2007 11:04
From: Har Fairweather
Never say never. Decentralization in some form and to some degree is exactly what I am thinking of. I suspect LL is too, long term.


I think so too

But I think decentralization wont really happen until 4 things take place

- Open Source (of course) while maintaining the ability to move from one part of the grid to another

- Removal of the need to Log on through the LL/Second Life system.

- Removal of the monopoly of the asset server.

- Removal of LL as the Payment Portal ( Elimination of the L$)
Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
09-25-2007 11:12
From: Joy Iddinja
Just an idea I thought I'd throw out. I know I have no say in this whatsoever, but I was wondering if you all thought it might be a good idea for LL to move offshore to get away from all these laws that seem to crop up and risk or ruin the quality of the SL experience.

First there was the Ageplay thing, not personally my cup of tea, but if they can ban ageplay, what's next? Well, we now know what was next, gambling. Now, you won't even be able to run an sexually oriented or violent business on MATURE land or even your own mature-rated PRIVATE islands without first banning those who won't verify their ages, in an environment that isn't even supposed to be used by those under 18 to begin with.

So, if LL decided to take the plunge, shut down the grid for a few weeks, and set up shop on an abandoned offshore oil rig (offshore oil rigs are better for computer oriented businesses, as retrofitting them for the controlled environment needed for large numbers of expensive servers, is often easier and cheaper than most offshore islands, or so I've read), or a tropical island with laws making it a privacy haven, would you support this? Would you feel the cost of illegal entities using Lindens to fund their activities would be more of an inconvenience than loosing the right to visit a casino? If you've worked in offshoring businesses, I'd like to know if it would even be possible for LL to do (I haven't a clue, as I have VERY little knowledge of offshore business ventures, outside of what is commonly showcased in mainstream American media, and some PBS documentaries.


Well it seems like a good idea to get rid of some of the hassle but wont it only protect them from the legal ramifications not second life members? And one more thing aren't all the lindens who work for second life living in America? Will they be willing to move to a foreign country ? Probably not.

Elinah
AntonSam Independent
Registered User
Join date: 2 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
09-25-2007 11:32
Well, if there was a way for other people to host some of the grid so that it's more like the www, then the thought police would no longer have a single target.

"If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant."
Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
09-25-2007 12:59
From: Qie Niangao
You keep posting this but it's just not correct. It's not even close to that simple. .



It is entirely that simple. You are mistaken.


From: Qie Niangao
Please read the many responses folks have posted to this claim, and try to understand them. I'll try one more time, as briefly as I can: As long as any company provides a service paid for by a US credit card or wire transfer, that service must not allow gambling for anything of value--whether that value is convertible to currency or not. And that service in the case of LL includes membership and tier; L$ purchase is beside the point..


Without Lindens$ being convertible to dollars, there is nothing (legally) "of value" involved, except for LL's business, or in some cases, if your game equipment, digital creations, or account was stolen (and LL should be the one's policing this) Everything else in-world, is legally all a fiction, just as much as monopoly money is a fiction or that you own Park Place or the Boardwalk.


From: Qie Niangao
(Offshoring is also irrelevant, as has been exhaustively addressed in about a hundred threads before this.).


They could avoid and forstall some issues by off-shoring, but I think persisting with this fictional currency being tradeable will eventually bring it down, because all countries have laws and regulations about creating currencies and internationally, would not be tolerated without regulations, licensings and complications, of the most stringent kinds. Entropia Universe in Sweden will have a better chance to avoid more major regulations for a while, but the style of that "game," is more blatantly based on making a real world income.
From: Qie Niangao
I'm sorry, but this constant, repetitive pining for the halcyon days of gambling is really getting tiresome.


The beating of the dead horse, with all of this, is the incredibly naive desire to keep promoting the need for the Linden$ to be exchangable and the only viable way for SL to continue.

The fact that some people do not get how absurd this is, given the nature of RL versus a fictional world, frankly, is mindboggling.

The day that the government bans Monopoly as "illegal gambling," would be the day the thought police get their way.

I should once again add, that personally I couldn't care less about "gambling," that I am not and never have been into gambling with real money or fake money.

With some of the silly ideas and interpretations I have seen posted, defining "illegal gambling," every kid's game involved with a roll of dice or a spin of an arrow, would be outlawed and that anything "of value" one wins in Monopoly is no longer a fiction.

To illustrate, say that there is a Milton Bradley sponsored, SL in-world Monopoly game that used Lindens$ as the Monopoly money---no one is going to care --unless that fictional money can then be officially (not disallowed by the TOS) traded for real dollars. So a ten year old kid can play Monopoly all day in real life, but do it in SL using Lindens$ and now it is gambling, because the Linden$ can be cashed in like a poker chip at a casino in RL

What part of "Get Unreal" is not being grasped here?
Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
09-25-2007 14:33
If we buy land in SL we can leave it empty and put ban lines on it so it's never used by anyone if we want - in short we can make the rules on our land. So LL own the grid so they can make whatever rules they like so long as they comply with the law.
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