Why, exactly, is there still camping?

I've often thought what would be cool is if LL could hire out Google to handle the inworld searches.

[11:16] Robin Linden: We're building a new search tool. It will index from a variety of places and give you one set of search returns for key words.
[11:18] Robin Linden: It sits on a GSA (google search appliance) and it looks like google to me
[11:19] CL: With the google adwords on one side?
[11:19] Robin Linden: Classified ads will be on one side.
[11:19] Robin Linden: We're developing the algorithms to be specific to Second Life
[11:19] Robin Linden: So for example, what do you think the equivalent of links would be?

[11:19] KF: That means profile information *can* be searchable.
[11:20] Robin Linden: Yes KF.

[11:20] Robin Linden: One idea was that picks would be one equivalent of links.
[11:20] Robin Linden: SLURLs will show up

[11:20] CL: Is this going to be linked to be able to search slurl's from a web browser?
[11:20] Robin Linden: Yes, I believe so CL, although that might be in the next iteration.
[11:21] Robin Linden: I think it will index text fields - so for example it will pick up data from parcel descriptions, profiles, event descriptions
[11:21] Robin Linden: etc.

[11:23] Robin Linden: For me the biggest challenge is advertising.
[11:23] Robin Linden: That's why I asked you all about ads last week.
[11:23] Robin Linden: And whether or not to bring RL ads into search.
[11:23] CL: I want RL ads
[11:23] KF: RL ads are fine with me
[11:24] KF: If they pay for them

[11:24] Robin Linden: PN: classifieds will be in 'paid ad' positions on the right hand side of the page.

[11:24] AV: Well RL brands are slowly moving into SL, so it's natural to have RL ads
[11:24] Robin Linden: The question about L$30 for parcel listings is a good one, and it's on my list of open questions.
[11:24] KF: So it'll be like reading Stratics without a paid account
[11:24] Robin Linden: No banner ads, evah!
[11:24] PN: people use the $30 search ads and search from search places more than classifieds Robin
[11:24] AS: will we be able to opt out of the search results? for either profile or parcels?
[11:25] KF: But then you could charge us a weekly sink to not see the banners
[11:25] Robin Linden: Good qustion AS - let me find out.
[11:26] Robin Linden: If all the search results are in one place CL, I'm not sure it will make that destinction.
[11:26] KF: Oh so there'll only be one tab?
[11:26] CL: Ye Gods no categories!
[11:26] KF: Kind of like communications are now?
[11:26] PN: yeah this sounds awful, maybe what's not broken now shouldn't be fixed
[11:26] Robin Linden: KF - I think that's the plan but please don't hold me to that.

[11:26] Robin Linden: Anyone who publishes that search has only one tab has to do so knowing that I never said that.
[11:27] Robin Linden: Like I said, the prototype I saw looks like google.

[11:27] DL: is Google involved?
[11:28] Robin Linden: No DL. Only to the extent that they sell the server.

[11:28] You: is the point to make it more shiny and flashy? or actually more accurate by reducing the possiblity to game search as well?
[11:29] Robin Linden: More accurate, and certainly less prone to gaming that say, popular places.
[11:29] You: that's good news then

[11:29] KF: Are changes in the traffic calculations slated as well?
[11:29] Robin Linden: I think so KF, but please don't hold me to that just yet.
[11:30] KF: The Pravda will print that you said traffic is being eliminated.
[11:30] Robin Linden: Perhaps KF. Then they'll be wrong.

[11:33] Robin Linden: If you were building search, how would you decide what the position of listings should be. Remember, paid ads will be separate.
[11:33] PN: by traffic! works fine now, you can skip over the first two categories
[11:33] Robin Linden: It's quite possible that traffic will be a key factor.
[11:33] PN: because without traffic, no actually merited stores will show up Robin
[11:34] PN: because every Linden from Cory on down has said they will be removing parcel traffic from search
[11:34] PN: if you aren't, great!
[11:34] Robin Linden: I don't think it's a done deal PN. But I don't think it will only be traffic.

Right, but are you going to be walking around with the campers and interacting with them? NO! Theyre campers, drones...... Theyre not there for you, theyre there for the money, they get it then leave.

Let's all be clear: camping in and of itself is not what gets everyone into a froth. What is wrong and f'd up is that "traffic" is a parameter that games the Search function. Most of us don't care if people want to hand out money and/or benefits to induce people to hang around - without this concept we would all be deprived of the beloved instition of "happy hour." However, it is just wrong that anyone can "buy" position on Search. It is nothing more than payola.

However, it is just wrong that anyone can "buy" position on Search. It is nothing more than payola.

I disagree with this bit. The problem with "buying position" in the SL places search is that it's actually *not* possible to buy position. I cannot send Linden Lab money to enhance my position in the places search. The only way I can enhance my search position is to game the traffic system.

That isn't payola, that's crapola

I cannot send Linden Lab money to enhance my position in the places search. The only way I can enhance my search position is to game the traffic system.

That isn't payola, that's crapola

I have always thought the reason why certain links to sites show up on Google and others don't is because they paid more.

I actually prefer to go to sims that aren`t crowded.

My problem is people using camping to jack up their traffic count.

Actually, it is exactly how payola works.

Your place in the "Places" tab shouldnt be money based though.

Thats what the Classified is for.

Basically as it stands now if you have the money

You buy a huge classified ad -

And you pay campers.

And you go to the top of two indexes.

Yeah, I am not advocating a switch to paid positioning on the places tab ... just suggesting that would be less convoluted than this traffic game we are playing. Honestly, I just wish they would switch to a more standard methodology like the Google algorithms that Isablan has mentioned. If they want to keep traffic in the mix, fine ... just make it far less important that all of the other factors.

The problem is that it's almost impossible to have a business in SL and not have campers, if you want it to show up anywhere on the first few search result pages. The alternative is to have some sort of club that attracts people on a regular basis - to do that you have to have events and staff and those cost a lot more than campers.

Even if you have a really good store, you're just not going to rank anywhere unless you plough some money into camping. It's a great shame that the search system has to be built that way, but apart from making it totally egalitarian and random, what realistic choice is there?

But I doubt anybody goes to a dance club when no one is there. There are several types of venues in SL that are relatively useless if you are alone. Hence, camping chairs get employed to make "green dots," which is a different motivation from gaming the search engine and traffic stats.

Not true. I have a 2 businesses - I don't use campers and both are on the first page of search results.

however, if you do go to a venue populated with campers ... you are in effect still alone.

*waves to jesse*

I know this to be untrue. I run the #1 website world wide for information on a certain medical condition. I don't advertise. At all. Anywhere. Yet if you Google the term, my site crops up in the top 5 results. The analytics of Google use a formula of relevance and number of people who searched on the term and who ultimatly click on the results linked to order their searches. There is also a component of how many other sites link to yours that factors in as well (but won't matter in SL.)

The fact remains, you CAN pay Google to be the first thing people see when searching for certain keywords.

but its still one point...... if the person loves the place .. they will come back again and again .... but apart form clubs ... why would ANYBODY spend 5 - 12 hours in ONE place unless they are campers. If somebody really hates the build .. they wont come back and that point is lost forever .... it might also encourage people to make attractive builds rather than horrible shit thats popular for 2/10 rather than its a nice place.
Sorry but if anybody can come up with a better way... EVERYTHING gets gamed .. of course it does... but in reality SHOULD there be a system that registers popularity for time of stay rather than amount. After all a RL shop owner and thier staff stay at the store all day everyday... doesnt make it popular, yet if they have 50 people visit it ... we would deem that as popular IRL. As I said its a hard system NOT to be gamed .. but you have to make it as difficult as possible.

Yeah Jesseaitui, I totally agree with you on the traffic count and overall dislike of camping. I'm just trying to answer the OP's question and thread title with some observations. My saying that this is why camping works should not be confused with thinking I advocate it.

Crowded sim or not: if I'm shopping for furniture or something, then yes I prefer it not to be too laggy and don't worry whether there are people around.

But I doubt anybody goes to a dance club when no one is there. There are several types of venues in SL that are relatively useless if you are alone. Hence, camping chairs get employed to make "green dots," which is a different motivation from gaming the search engine and traffic stats.

This is again, just an observation, Jesseaitui, so I'm not disagreeing with you. When I find that I've been suckered by camping zombies, I leave.