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The Proposed Adult Continent Policy Has Resulted in Good Press for Second Life

Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 17:56
From: Darkness Anubis
The sky is NOT falling. But I do think we will see a short term contraction in the providers of adult content. For the smaller providers the move is going to cause some pause and some will simply decide to close rather than relocate, rebuild, recreate their traffic and rankings. But one thing that has always been true in SL for every business that shuts it doors more will emerge to take their place.

On a similar note depending how the verification process goes in the final version that gets implemented...there might be a contraction in the number of customers these businesses have as folks try to get verified or discover they are unable to ( for whatever reason).

Agreed that there will be some changes and in fact some will be rather painful. I am not saying that I agree with this enforced segregation, I like the grid the way it is now. Just stating that I don't see people going out of business due to this change. Where there is demand, and I think that everyone will agree that the demand is not going to diminish, there will always be supply................................
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Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 18:00
From: Ciaran Laval
Stroker runs an affiliate scheme, this helps fund some clubs. They won't all get away with moving. When all the clubs in the same area are trying to run Strokerz Toyz affiliates to fund part of their tier costs it will simply be unviable.

Add to this that simply moving ruins your search ranking and it becomes pretty clear that some people will suffer financial loss.

But it will have no affect on Stroker and we already know that search rankings are gamed. As I pointed out in my reply to Darkness, I am not saying I agree with the change. Just stating that there will always be demand and hence people will do whatever is necessary to meet this demand...........................Economics 101. The smart ones will adapt to the change and continue to make money. This only affects the ones not smart enough to adapt.................................Basic Law of Nature.
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Ciaran Laval
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Join date: 11 Mar 2007
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03-21-2009 18:03
From: Jesse Barnett
But it will have no affect on Stroker and we already know that search rankings are gamed. As I pointed out in my reply to Darkness, I am not saying I agree with the change. Just stating that there will always be demand and hence people will do whatever is necessary to meet this demand...........................Economics 101.


Of course it will have an effect on Stroker, less affiliate sales = less income and the idea that search rankings are gamed so it's ok if people lose business due to it is ludicrous.

This move has a financial cost.
Ceka Cianci
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Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
03-21-2009 18:07
this is only for mainland right ?
private islands are still pretty much gonna be the same?
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Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 18:12
From: Ciaran Laval
Of course it will have an effect on Stroker, less affiliate sales = less income and the idea that search rankings are gamed so it's ok if people lose business due to it is ludicrous.

This move has a financial cost.

No, If anyone wants Stroker's creations they will still be able to find them. Do you want to bet money on this? Ask Stroker 6 months from now if his sales have changed. Getting the dungeons out of the MG and into an adult grid will mean people can finally, peacefully live in their little homes in the MG, this coupled with the upcoming scripting limits and our present changes in the Asset system will finally allow more people to come into SL. More people == more demand == more sales. The dumb may not survive but the smart will make even more money. This is exactly what has happened after every other major change in SL that everyone has decried.
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Ciaran Laval
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Join date: 11 Mar 2007
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03-21-2009 18:15
From: Ceka Cianci
this is only for mainland right ?
private islands are still pretty much gonna be the same?


Not at all. We're awaiting an answer from LL as to whether whole estates need to be flagged adult, or whether it will be individual islands or even just parcels? The initial implication was it will be whole estates and that will be a big issue because if an estate owner has 10 island, 6 mature, 4 PG and one of his mature islands is an adult venture, to keep it he would have to flag every single island as adult and only accessible by people who opted into adult content. That would mean anyone advertising on that island could only advertise to people who want to see adult content, even if they're on a PG sim selling PG content.
Ciaran Laval
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03-21-2009 18:19
From: Jesse Barnett
No, If anyone wants Stroker's creations they will still be able to find them.


But the people meeting tier payments via Stroker's sales will not, they will go under. That means less income for LL, economics 101 as you said earlier.

From: Jesse Barnett
Do you want to bet money on this? Ask Stroker 6 months from now if his sales have changed.


You're offering to bet me in a time of RL economic turmoil that Stroker's sales in the next six months will be as good as the last six months, are you sure about this?

From: Jesse Barnett
Getting the dungeons out of the MG and into an adult grid will mean people can finally, peacefully live in their little homes in the MG, this coupled with the upcoming scripting limits and our present changes in the Asset system will finally allow more people to come into SL. More people == more demand == more sales. The dumb may not survive but the smart will make even more money. This is exactly what has happened after every other major change in SL that everyone has decried.


"our" present changes? Which Linden are you an alt of?
Ceka Cianci
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03-21-2009 18:20
knowing ahead like this is a good thing..it gives people a chance to get ready and put up signs that they are moving and to join maybe a move group or something to show people where you are heading....
the ones caught sleeping are the ones that it's gonna hurt if they can't take an out of nowhere hit.

as for strokers stuff..
people will go where strokers stuff is and the reason his sales won't change is because the demand is not gonna change..the dealership may but the want for the product won't..someone will sell it to them..
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Ceka Cianci
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03-21-2009 18:24
From: Ciaran Laval
Not at all. We're awaiting an answer from LL as to whether whole estates need to be flagged adult, or whether it will be individual islands or even just parcels? The initial implication was it will be whole estates and that will be a big issue because if an estate owner has 10 island, 6 mature, 4 PG and one of his mature islands is an adult venture, to keep it he would have to flag every single island as adult and only accessible by people who opted into adult content. That would mean anyone advertising on that island could only advertise to people who want to see adult content, even if they're on a PG sim selling PG content.


ya i guess that would be kind of like having a small mainland i guess in their eyes..
probably because people can get on sim edges and look into other sims with a long draw distance..

wow that really does suck for some places.
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Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 18:25
From: Ciaran Laval
But the people meeting tier payments via Stroker's sales will not, they will go under. That means less income for LL, economics 101 as you said earlier.



You're offering to bet me in a time of RL economic turmoil that Stroker's sales in the next six months will be as good as the last six months, are you sure about this?



"our" present changes? Which Linden are you an alt of?

You Betcha!!!!! There is nothing complicated about this. A certain percentage of people coming into SL are attracted to the "adult stuff" and that percentage is actually quite high. The percentage never changes and as more come in the demand itself grows. Just look at how many people are online right this moment, this just a few months after everyone was saying that the OS fiasco was going to be the death of SL.
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Ciaran Laval
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Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
03-21-2009 18:28
From: Jesse Barnett
You Betcha!!!!! There is nothing complicated about this. A certain percentage of people coming into SL are attracted to the "adult stuff" and that percentage is actually quite high. The percentage never changes and as more come in the demand itself grows. Just look at how many people are online right this moment, this just a few months after everyone was saying that the OS fiasco was going to be the death of SL.


The OS fiasco cost me cold hard cash, which Linden are you?
Ciera Spyker
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Posts: 424
03-21-2009 18:32
the OS fiasco is far from being over yet... theres a slew of tier hikes coming up.
Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 18:37
From: Ciaran Laval
The OS fiasco cost me cold hard cash, which Linden are you?

But you are still here.

You have been in the forums long enough and seen enough of my posts which are critical of LL to know that I am no one's alt, especially a Linden.
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Clarissa Lowell
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03-21-2009 18:39
From: Darkness Anubis
The sky is NOT falling. But I do think we will see a short term contraction in the providers of adult content. For the smaller providers the move is going to cause some pause and some will simply decide to close rather than relocate, rebuild, recreate their traffic and rankings. But one thing that has always been true in SL for every business that shuts it doors more will emerge to take their place.

On a similar note depending how the verification process goes in the final version that gets implemented...there might be a contraction in the number of customers these businesses have as folks try to get verified or discover they are unable to ( for whatever reason).


It isn't only businesses and customers, but players, sims, guests, socialising, a lot of other things, and the ripple will go grid-wide. What the end result will be, no one can really say, but to underestimate it might be a big mistake.

It won't be restricted to 'adult businesses' and saying that it is just makes me think of the tones used in this country against certain groups in society in the past. "Oh it's only going to affect THEM" doesn't seem accurate, to me.

What if there isn't room enough for everyone on this new continent. Will they create more land?

This is different than adding voice, or banning gambling, as it will affect every single resident, the personal info thing alone. The second issue is moving adult sims and businesses or changing rules for them. And the third issue is bringing kids into SL. It is about a lot more than a few businesses leaving SL, (and maybe new ones entering it), which happens routinely anyway.
Ciaran Laval
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03-21-2009 18:40
From: Jesse Barnett
But you are still here.

You have been in the forums long enough and seen enough of my posts which are critical of LL to know that I am no one's alt, especially a Linden.


Nobody says "our" when they mean "Their". I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. I'm also spending less on SL since the OS fiasco and will absolutely not expand my investment.
Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 18:51
From: Ciaran Laval
Nobody says "our" when they mean "Their". I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

WTF are you talking about and have you taken your meds today?

From: Ciaran Laval
I'm also spending less on SL since the OS fiasco and will absolutely not expand my investment.

So? Your investment, no matter how large has no impact as long as others are coming in. Sorry Ciaran but this puts you too at the end of the long list of "the sky is falling" people.
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Clarissa Lowell
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03-21-2009 18:53
I agree that may be what LL isn't able to see. People who had wished or intended to spend more in SL or to invest in SL in such things as Sim purchases, but waited out the OS thing to see how the cards fell. And now, this.

I don't even think the 'adult continent' is the worst of it...I think requiring personal info given of everyone wishing to visit any adult sim, is.

Why not simply label it, and put up all kinds of "enter at your own risk" types of signs as someone teleports in. Legally, isn't verifying they are over 18 when they join SL, enough? Aristotle offers insurance against lawsuits relating to such things, I've heard. Is that the case?

Since it will be segregated anyway, what is the purpose of requiring personal info? *Just do not go there* seems simple enough. (Even for kids!) Adding something about not going to the adult land if you do not wish to see adult things, or are a minor, to the *main contract* users must agree to seems to cover things too. (Except, contracts with minors are not enforceable, so back to square one? Even if kids are age verified as kids, the law on contracts with a minor holds...what will protect them from dirty IM messages?)
Ciaran Laval
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03-21-2009 18:55
From: Jesse Barnett
WTF are you talking about and have you taken your meds today?


This:

From: Jesse Barnett
Getting the dungeons out of the MG and into an adult grid will mean people can finally, peacefully live in their little homes in the MG, this coupled with the upcoming scripting limits and our present changes in the Asset system will finally allow more people to come into SL


"Our present changes in the Asset system" Our? Really? I'm sorry, I'm not having it that you're not a Linden after a comment like that.
Brenda Connolly
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03-21-2009 18:58
Got the Stella working tonight , Ciaran?

*BTW, the gang in Kearney all say hello. :p
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Clarissa Lowell
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03-21-2009 19:00
"Sky is falling group" seems patronising at best. Just because people offer critiques of the current plan as-is, does not mean they have lost all perspective on life. Or that they stopped realising this is a pastime, a hobby.

But also remember this is a financial investment for many: a real-life income, partially or fully paying their real-life bills. IMO people have every reason to voice and be heard.

I had hoped to invest in a sim. To me, lowering land price and tiers, would be one way to *stimulate* and *boost* the SL economy. But I can also understand how someone might be hesitant to offer that at a meeting in LL and perhaps stake their job or promotion on the outcome.

I think it would work wonders but if it failed that person might be out of a job.

Lastly, too many changes too quickly gives users the impression this is an unstable place in which to invest.
Ciaran Laval
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03-21-2009 19:00
Haha Brenda, I'm overdue a visit to Kearney, that would have been an awesome place to be tonight with Ireland winning the Rugby!
Darkness Anubis
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03-21-2009 19:01
From: Clarissa Lowell
It isn't only businesses and customers, but players, sims, guests, socialising, a lot of other things, and the ripple will go grid-wide. What the end result will be, no one can really say, but to underestimate it might be a big mistake.

It won't be restricted to 'adult businesses' and saying that it is just makes me think of the tones used in this country against certain groups in society in the past. "Oh it's only going to affect THEM" doesn't seem accurate, to me.

What if there isn't room enough for everyone on this new continent. Will they create more land?

This is different than adding voice, or banning gambling, as it will affect every single resident, the personal info thing alone. The second issue is moving adult sims and businesses or changing rules for them. And the third issue is bringing kids into SL. It is about a lot more than a few businesses leaving SL, (and maybe new ones entering it), which happens routinely anyway.


I was responding specifically to a point about adult businesses. Surprisingly I do think there will be big ripples BUT looking long term Just like the following predicted demises of SL : Free Accounts, Gambling ban, Payment info on file in profile, end of stipends, the OS debacle... SL has a history of surviving. New people, businesses, activities etc. fill the gaps of those that have gone the way of the dodo. Get enough creative driven people together and they have an uncanny knack for adapting.

To Jesse...
It is not just the stupid that will close but the tired as well. Many will simply decide the small return is not worth putting themselve through rebuilding thier businesses (in some cases for the umpteenth time). I am in that category. I am far from stupid. I just can't find the energy to do it all over again if I have to move my little shop.
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Jesse Barnett
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03-21-2009 19:04
From: Darkness Anubis
To Jesse...
It is not just the stupid that will close but the tired as well. Many will simply decide the small return is not worth putting themselve through rebuilding thier businesses (in some cases for the umpteenth time). I am in that category. I am far from stupid. I just can't find the energy to do it all over again if I have to move my little shop.

And this I would sorely miss. I don't think you know, but I have been a neighbor of yours in Sesia these many years. I used to own the garden on the north side and Katt's sandbox is still where I rez everyday. For the first couple of years of my existence there, anytime you could not move because the lag was soooo bad, it was probably because of some horrid scripting experiment of mine that went wrong :p
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Clarissa Lowell
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03-21-2009 19:08
From: Darkness Anubis
I was responding specifically to a point about adult businesses. Surprisingly I do think there will be big ripples BUT looking long term Just like the following predicted demises of SL : Free Accounts, Gambling ban, Payment info on file in profile, end of stipends, the OS debacle... SL has a history of surviving. New people, businesses, activities etc. fill the gaps of those that have gone the way of the dodo. Get enough creative driven people together and they have an uncanny knack for adapting.


I understand. You are saying in part that those who have been in-world actively during all of that have a perspective different than those who have only seen the OS debate and now this one.

I can see a reason for free accounts: Boost membership. Gambling ban: U.S. law forbid online gambling. LL is a U.S. company. Payment info on file in profile: What were the issues pro/con there? Stipends - I am also unfamiliar with that debate. OS, stands to logic many would be unable to afford it. But I could sort of agree with the part which enforced the existing rule about number of prims and light usage.

I agree people can adapt but as you pointed out in the second paragraph of your post, will they want to? Also, many will not be able to, since they simply like being able to choose for themselves where to go.

The assertion some are making 'there are more where YOU came from' (i.e. new users will fill in gaps left by the soon to be exodus) seems a tad arrogant and assumptive - I (sort of) hope for LL's sake it's true but either way, it will be SL's loss. If that is the tone behind this it is unfortunate.

Anyone who remembers the Moral Majority trying to decide for everyone else, based upon their own sensibilities and qualms, flinches at this whole thing instinctively. Until more is explained just how this will all go down.
Gordon Wendt
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03-21-2009 19:17
From: Clarissa Lowell
"Sky is falling group" seems patronising at best. Just because people offer critiques of the current plan as-is, does not mean they have lost all perspective on life. Or that they stopped realising this is a pastime, a hobby.


Although I agree with Ciaran most of the time his/her/their views do sometimes cross into "omg the sky is falling" territory sometimes but all things considered I for one have lost the will to criticize people for it.

I think the difference between criticism and speculation is that criticism is based directly on things that have happened or that are announced as a future change/endeavor. Speculation on the other hand is based loosely on what has happened on the past or what is announced but it involves attempting to predict future events based on previous statements and events which is foolhardy in my opinion.


Edit: Ciaran, my apologies for not remembering your gender because I distinctly remember that you've told me before. I'm not good with names when told them, I'm so so with faces, and online I stink at remembering the right gender pronoun for people.
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