If LL sells SL what happens to our assets?

If LL makes it big by selling SL to a big corp, what happens to our assets? Are we considered shareholders?

Hard to invest in the long term in SL if future owners could change the rules willy-nilly.

I would imagine any future owner would want the content providers and large land owners who create awesome sims to stay as that is what makes SL a place to visit but maybe I'm being naive.

Would it lower the value of SL if LL makes the server code open source?

And what is the maximum number of visitors that SL can really manage long term? I can't imagine more than 100000 on line at at time in the foreseeable future.

As I spend my high risk investment money here buying and holding land, I'm beginning to consider the long term..any ideas people with biz smarts?

Like anything else that is "virtual"... we're screwed.

Broccoli

I think the best you can do is take a screenshot of everything you've created, and use it for your portfolio (which I already do).

As far as items you've purchased...take a screenshot for posterity?

Hey I thought you didnt like that cyber sechs stuffs.

You're not a shareholder. Lindens don't represent shares of LL. There's been some debate as to what they actually do represent, and I'd appreciate it if we could avoid that. It makes me woozy.

I would think that a corporation wouldn't acquire SL unless there was a profit motive. I would also guess that things would stay largely the same in terms of the types of accounts that are out there, but that the new owner might not "get it" and might try to control the content more heavily. For example, SL relies on tier, of course, but in order for people to be able to pay tier, they need folks on basic accounts like me. I haven't come up with a good reason for me to own land yet, so I have a basic account. I drop $20 into the game when I run short on lindens and consider it an entertainment expense. That money goes to someone selling Lindens so they can pay LL tier (or whatever). In world, I buy stuff with the Lindens and the shop owners use it to pay rent or it goes to their own tier. Eventually, I run short and dump another $20 into the system. Multiply my very, very small impact on the economy times the number of people who do the exact same thing and you have a large support system for the people who pay the most in tier to LL.

The real threat I see would be a big corporation trying to dictate content because they are worried about their image. Disney buys the company and says, "alright - no sex, no violent rp, no Gor, no D/S, no bdsm, no close dancing, no weapons. Everyone's avatar has to look like Prince whomever and Cinderella and we all look like Barbie and Ken when we're naked." This social experiment comes to a screeching halt because the new corporation doesn't get the concept.

The best outcome from an end user perspective is total (client and server side) open sourcing.

If/when the server code is open sourced, then any ISP (even you if you wanted to do so) can participate in providing an SL gateway (e.g. similar to how web servers are deployed today), and the idea of SL as part of the next generation web has a chance of actually succeeding. So long term, I think it would be a good thing for content providers of any size, and would enable the grid to grow at a far faster rate than is currently possible. Also, this would enable private enterprises to build true private grids (similar to a web intranet) while being able to participate in the public grid. However, there is no guarantee this will happen.

The problem, is if SL is sold to a larger company before the server side is open sourced, the open sourcing might or might not happen depending on who acquired SL. There are some large companies out there who are capable of acquiring LL, but who are not big fans of open source. And of course the wild card is whether or not the current investors in Linden Labs would go for the full open source model. It all depends on whether LL have a business model that supports the above full open source scenario, and allows them to make gobs of money.

Brilliant idea Michael! Thanks!

From what I have hear, corps are building their own internal 3D worlds for security reasons (Cisco pulled out of SL to do this). SL is most useful I think as a creative thinktank sort of place..where ideas are shared or a vacation spot for people looking for 3D entertainment.

to call any holdings in SL assets...is indeed quite high risk investment...


" 1.6 Second Life is subject to scheduled and unscheduled service interruptions. All aspects of the Service are subject to change or elimination at Linden Lab's sole discretion.

Linden Lab reserves the right to interrupt the Service with or without prior notice for any reason or no reason. You agree that Linden Lab will not be liable for any interruption of the Service, delay or failure to perform, and you understand that except as otherwise specifically provided in Linden Lab's billing policies posted at http://secondlife.com/corporate/billing.php, you shall not be entitled to any refunds of fees for interruption of service or failure to perform. Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as it sees fit in its sole discretion. "

so they can in fact just shut it down, you lose everything, or make any other change that may render your "investment" worthless... especially pertinent is the final sentence.

Lol what makes you think anyone would buy SL? It is like being concerned San Francisco gets taken out by a meteorite -- unlikely so who cares?

Remember when this thread happened last year and people were talking about Google buying SL? This discussion actually kinda made a little sense back then.

But Phil said "we aren't for sale" when asked about that.

It won't happen. They have the whole "becoming the internet in 3-D" thing in mind which would most definitely go away if another company bought them.

Phil was rich before he started LL so he's not doing it just for money but for an actual idea. He's incredibily idealistic which doesn't always translate into good business decisions (as we've seen) but is definitely hard to shake!

If SL goes down the tubes it will be with LL at the helm and not any other company.

Technically speaking any company down the line that tried to change the SL TOS in a dramatic way would have contract law problems. The courts frown upon any form of contract that wasn't negotiated in good faith. This is why in the Bragg case the TOS was found to be non-binding (or at least this was the gist of it). Since the TOS ensures the copyright owner that they retain the copyright, if the TOS were changed to grab more rights it would undoubtedly not hold up in court. LL can't steal your copyrights but they do lay out provisions in the TOS for content usage. If you haven't thoroughly read the TOS in a long time... now would be a good time to brush up.

Good to know. I'd hate to think we'd all be out on our assets

Well, does anyone know how financially healthy LL is? Are they turning a profit yet?

*shudders* I'd commit sepuku and have a really cool funeral for myself. All you Cinderellas and Prince Charmings would be invited to throw mouse hats and roses on my coffin.

I would think first Bling sales alone are putting them on top.

Yes they are turning a profit but they are poring most of it into the operational budget and hiring new employees.

By the way LL is always looking for smart energetic folk. Being a community member in good standing is something they look for when hiring.

http://lindenlab.com/employment

I actually saw one of those up close IRL on an actual Linden I met at a party recently. They don't really look like big champion nerd medallions like the picture on the web site implies...they look like tiny champion nerd medallions!

Any Large Corporation Purchasing LL would be Purchasing it's assets, it's Liabilitis and Most Importantly, It's CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS. Change of Parent Company doesn't negate the Contracts entered into by LL.

The Courts would have to examine any Major Changes in the Service LL's New Owners wish to Impliment, and Determine If LL's TOS is an enforcable Contract in that specific Circumstance. A Major Company would be Unlikely to make any Sweeping Changes quickly, as their own legal, and Tecnical Departments would have to become thoroughly Familiar with LL's Operations, and Obligations First. A Process i've seen Take a Year in small companies (Numbering Less than 200 employees and Offering Services in only a Few Local Municipalities) In a Company as Large as LL, any Major Changes Could be Two years or more in Coming.

Our Assets within SL should remain Fairly Stable, Unless people begin Panicing and attempting to Withdraw all of them in one weekend.
In such a Case, to preserve the Company AND to give everyone a Chance to Cash out fairly, some restrictions on Trading would probably be Implimented (Why does this sound familiar??) and the LL residents would have something of a cooling off period to Consider what they are doing.

Angel.

Actually there have been examples of private corporations building their own for quite some time. For example, Wells Fargo had their own 3d build in the news late last year, and IBM has been researching this area for quite some time (i.e. not just SL).

Still, 3d is going to struggle to be part of the web in a large scale way until there is standardization at the client and server level. LL could help speed up that process by making the server open source, but whether/how that happens is not certain. Also, SL is still embryonic in size when you compare it to the wider world wide web user base, so in a sense, this market space is still wide open.

BTW, Cisco is still in SL.

I've been with a few startups that have been acquired, and the acquiring company is nearly always buying into the vision of the startup. I think in the case of SL the community itself is a significant part of the value proposition, and thus no prospective buyer is going to nuke us.

Re: open source servers: imho opening the server code would indeed impact LL's value in the eyes of most prospective buyers. However, if their plan is to go public or at least stay private and independent, it could foster growth.

@Strife, terminology issue: even tho SL is making revenue, they are not actually turning a profit, since as you point out they must grow or die. (I did a back-of-envelope revenue calc in another thread, and it looked like they might be doing pretty well, actually, as startups go. But revenue, while impressive, is not crucial to many startups' valuations).

How would that be any different than the current owners?

Actually... I don't really play, but I kind of liked Puzzle Pirates! Which is roughly what you describe. Sort of like home videos and html - the metaverse really *does* have a life of its own beyond exploitation of dark fetishes and naughty bits.

While it's really cool to live on the edge of the digital frontier, there are a LOT of people who would prefer the lack of penis-head avatars and (possibly!) the service reliability that slooowly comes with commoditised mass markets.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you just want to do business without having someone get their freak on across your desk while you are trying to get something done.

* * * * *

With regard to what's ours... honestly folks, from a tech standpoint the big point of everything here is persistence and availability. And persistence costs.

So if the money stops, the persistence stops. If the money stops in a big way, so will the grid.

In 2007, you are paying to have the grid available to you in 2007. Not 2017. Unless people are still paying in 2017. We all bear the risk, together.

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Startups.

There are a few reasons to buy a startup. Most of them aren't 'good'.

First, asset acquisition (usually patents, method and the like). Small companies are bought, crushed into little bits, the nuggets taken out, and the rest tossed on the trash heap of history. I've personally worked for two companies that did this *very* effectively.

One was *quite* evil - strip out and transfer the valuable stuff with a 'merger', then 'spin off' a gutted and sacked entity with green management, liabilities that looked 'okay' unless you had a clue (aged workforce, ending contracts) an issuance of stock. Thus keeping the good and abandoning liability like a flaming bag of something on a neighbour's porch. All the while buying up more peripheral competitive entities.

I've seen the reverse, too - 'good' purchases of businesses, where the purchased business was actually nourished and brought to long term efficiency. But make no mistake, this is like fattening a dairy cow.

I worked for a nourished, purchased company early on - and found that heroic profit was simply skimmed off annually. People rarely buy businesses to make the employees rich. Odds are, if you are dependent on someone else for a raise, you will *never* get rich in that position yourself, at *any* level. You simply have the illusion of security.

This isn't to say that good people don't run companies. There *are* wonderful people in the world - people who really put their heart into their business. For any of you who don't remember, have a look at what Kingston Technology did for their employees in 1996:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Technology

Yep, 100 million USD bonus for the... I forget exactly, maybe 1000 employees they had at the time. Those guys running Kingston earned their angel wings right there and then in my book, and I still buy their products whenever I can. Sadly I didn't work there (I worked nearby).

* * * * *

I see... something different for the Company. The founders already have serious money - making a virtual world is *not*a good way to make more of it.

If they wanted to just cash in more, they could have simply gotten tight with George and Dick and Halliburton Energy Services.

So... what's going to happen? I suspect they will do what many wealthy people generally do - try to change the course of history.

Check out the mission statement. I do believe they are serious, and as such, I don't suspect that mere money will sway their course as long as they are still kicking. I don't forsee a buyout unless it furthers the founder's goals 100-fold.

Even 'losing' to a better, more global metaversal vision of our Second Life will, at this point, still be victory for them.

Is there anywhere I can check my "good standing" rating before applying?

Maybe a Jira or Wiki page?

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of a big fat ass that I can kiss to increase my rating?

it's easy enough for you to self Check, How many Bans, suspensions, Warnings and/or Stern talkings to by Lindens have you received since you Entered SL.

In my case, the answer is Never.
If you can answer the same, then You are in Good standing. A few warnings even, Upon entering SL, By way of a learning process wouldn't be held against you as long as the need for them ceased and didn't become a pattern of behaviour.
A close friend of mine was asked by the Lindens actually to Apply (She declined, RL issues) She was Told that a Suspension Would count against you for gaining employment with LL, But that WAS two years ago, and Rules may have relaxed since then.

Angel.