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Researchers find racial bias in virtual worlds |
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Amy Stork
Way past use by date
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 646
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09-11-2008 07:50
For those of you that don't read slashdot there was an article in ITNews australia:
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FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
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09-11-2008 08:00
I didn't but my boyfriend is black here and in real life.
And he told me about some pretty awful racist things he ran into in SL exploring. mainly derogatory racist unwanted D/S advances he has experienced by people presenting themselves as females. I asked him if he AR-ed them he said, "What's the point in doing that, there so many who are racist in SL." _____________________
Look for my alt Dagon Xanith on Youtube.com
Newest video is Loneliness by Duo Zikr DX's Alts & SL Art Death of Avatar |
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HoneyBear Lilliehook
Owner, The Mall at Cherry
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 4,500
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09-11-2008 08:03
I read an article once by someone who created a black avatar and was stunned at the racism she was met with.
Personally, I haven't seen it. But once again, it makes me want to create a black alt, just to see for myself. _____________________
Virtual Freebies now has its own domain!
URL=http://virtualfreebiesblog.com The Mall at Cherry Park - new vendors, new look! |
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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09-11-2008 08:05
I don't see a link...did you use IMG tags? If so, that just makes the link invisible for some of us.
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~
I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things. Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut. |
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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09-11-2008 08:07
My mommy, daddy, and brother in Second Life are all African-American avatars, and there is indeed racism in here. Of course, you can also turn on voice for an hour or two in Waterhead and learn that.
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 "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world  " - Prospero Linden |
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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09-11-2008 08:07
ran into it once while shopping. male ava walked up on us and proceeded to mke the usual may we e-sex now type approach, i turned him down and we had a sort of nice conversation, until i told him i was black RL(after he told me his; brazilian). i was called the "N" word and he told me to go back where i belong..
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There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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09-11-2008 08:11
Much as we would like this to be an idyllic world, the people behind the keyboards are still people, and in any demographic sampling of people you'll find some who are racist. Those people are racists here, just as they are in Real Life. Logging into SL doesn't change that.
In theory, the TOS and Community Standards prohibit racist activities in SL. In practice, the only thing you can do is to Abuse Report individual cases of racist behavior, and hope the Lindens will enforce their own policies eventually. _____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Amy Stork
Way past use by date
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 646
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09-11-2008 08:21
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/84525,researchers-find-racial-bias-in-virtual-worlds.aspx
If you cant see img tags I think ppl's RL biases and attitudes carry over to SL, which is a pity but there it is. People don't change just because they are rendered in a computer. |
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Bryony Constantine
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 32
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09-11-2008 08:23
Much as we would like this to be an idyllic world, the people behind the keyboards are still people, and in any demographic sampling of people you'll find some who are racist. Those people are racists here, just as they are in Real Life. Logging into SL doesn't change that. In theory, the TOS and Community Standards prohibit racist activities in SL. In practice, the only thing you can do is to Abuse Report individual cases of racist behavior, and hope the Lindens will enforce their own policies eventually. I wish the Lindens would clamp down on this kind of nastiness. People break their TOS all the time but often people get the feeling the Lindens won't do anything. I've learned all the tricks like chat logs but if I feel the Lindens won't take action, what's the use of that? Second Life has been a wild west style world too long....they need to clamp down on the bad apples now. |
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Xio Jester
Killed the King.
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 813
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09-11-2008 08:24
You know what was a trick I did, back when SL racism used ta "get my goat"? Well here's the situation in a "nutshell":
A few main problems that I consistently experienced almost daily... 1. Being orbitted, "shot", caged, etc in Sims that I visited on a regular basis, and talked to the people how I talked to my RL friends, but I soon learned that if I "retaliated", that was frowned upon...so some of those Sims, I just quit going to. 2. Being "griefed" almost every time I went to any shop, daily, whether I had been there before or not, for the first few months of my account. I would just TP in, start lookin around, & be caged, orbitted, etc in seconds almost everywhere. Most of my non-Black aquaintences said they didn't have that problem, & of course asked "What are you doing?" Just shopping quietly. My "Black" friends (just Black avatar or otherwise) would get griefed all the time, with me, in my abscence, and pretty much "around the clock"...so we chalked it up to racism, & for a while I took to the habit of staying in "Black Sims". I've never been one for separatism IRL though...and that didn't last for long. 3. In the beginning, I was almost always misunderstood because of dialect and ARed and banned from Sims, not knowing why for a while. ...for example, in some areas I've lived in IRL, we tell folks phrases like "Get the hell outta here!" meaning "Wow, are you serious? That happened?", and it gets misconstrued (sp?). There are so many "versions of English" now, u know? or...like I've been called a "cheeky bastard" many times, which I didn't really understand the meaning of, until I sat down for 5 minutes and had an English lady explain it to me, lol. Things like this are bound to happen, and SL as a whole has presented me with a better community than I've found anywhere else on the web. I think that's almost exclusively because of the age demographic, widely varied cultural backgrounds TRYING (putting actual effort into it) to co-exist, and maturity levels of the long standing Residents. If not for the vast numbers of overseas Residents, I think this Californian-run company, if filled with just the typical young American demographic that I can imagine populating the Grid, after looking at the other major MMORPGs, platform, AND PC/Mac-wise...I would think, not to degrade the citizens of my own Country, but I would think we would have a lot more social "drama" (yes that's actually possible). Just go try Kaneva for a day if u need a "flashback refresher". I'm actually VERY glad, everytime I log in, that LL decided to go for an initially more European market, than just the young American obvious targets for a "Mod (game modification build)-based online world". If not for that, I might have left SL alone for good years ago. Just my opinion _____________________
~ In Shakespeare, 'Tis The Fool Who Speaks The Most Profound Truth. ~
http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=37521 |
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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09-11-2008 08:35
You know what was a trick I did, back when SL racism used ta "get my goat"? Well here's the situation in a "nutshell": A few main problems that I consistently experienced almost daily... 1. Being orbitted, "shot", caged, etc in Sims that I visited on a regular basis, and talked to the people how I talked to my RL friends, but I soon learned that if I "retaliated", that was frowned upon...so some of those Sims, I just quit going to. 2. Being "griefed" almost every time I went to any shop, daily, whether I had been there before or not, for the first few months of my account. I would just TP in, start lookin around, & be caged, orbitted, etc in seconds almost everywhere. Most of my non-Black aquaintences said they didn't have that problem, & of course asked "What are you doing?" Just shopping quietly. My "Black" friends (just Black avatar or otherwise) would get griefed all the time, with me, in my abscence, and pretty much "around the clock"...so we chalked it up to racism, & for a while I took to the habit of staying in "Black Sims". I've never been one for separatism IRL though...and that didn't last for long. 3. In the beginning, I was almost always misunderstood because of dialect and ARed and banned from Sims, not knowing why for a while. ...for example, in some areas I've lived in IRL, we tell folks phrases like "Get the hell outta here!" meaning "Wow, are you serious? That happened?", and it gets misconstrued (sp?). There are so many "versions of English" now, u know? or...like I've been called a "cheeky bastard" many times, which I didn't really understand the meaning of, until I sat down for 5 minutes and had an English lady explain it to me, lol. Things like this are bound to happen, and SL as a whole has presented me with a better community than I've found anywhere else on the web. I think that's almost exclusively because of the age demographic, widely varied cultural backgrounds TRYING (putting actual effort into it) to co-exist, and maturity levels of the long standing Residents. If not for the vast numbers of overseas Residents, I think this Californian-run company, if filled with just the typical young American demographic that I can imagine populating the Grid, after looking at the other major MMORPGs, platform, AND PC/Mac-wise...I would think, not to degrade the citizens of my own Country, but I would think we would have a lot more social "drama" (yes that's actually possible). Just go try Kaneva for a day if u need a "flashback refresher". I'm actually VERY glad, everytime I log in, that LL decided to go for an initially more European market, than just the young American obvious targets for a "Mod (game modification build)-based online world". If not for that, I might have left SL alone for good years ago. Just my opinion 1 user agrees _____________________
There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Sassy Romano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 619
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09-11-2008 09:16
Don't wish to detract but you will find <insert your favourite>ist people here, racist, sexist, mysogynist, bigamist etc.
The difference is that here, a) they can't physically hurt you and b) you have a teleport option. You can of course *try* to educate since a lot of so called hatred is based upon absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. While I appreciate most are probably too far gone and will never change, at least you won't get beaten up, knifed, shot trying. |
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Milla Alexandre
Milla Alexandre
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,759
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09-11-2008 09:29
The whole idea sickens me......that people bring that into SL. Obviously people are what they are, and sadly they'll bring their small mindedness into SL with them. But it makes my skin crawl. I'm about as white bread american mutt as they come.....but I've got zero racism in my blood. I have a couple really beautiful dark skinned female avatars I've made (could pass for african or latin depending on how I make em up) and I've never come across anyone taking issue with it.But oh let em try me.....just once let me try!!!! Sadly, SL doesn't have a moron meter that stops these wingnuts from signing up. *sigh* |
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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09-11-2008 09:52
Don't wish to detract but you will find <insert your favourite>ist people here, racist, sexist, mysogynist, bigamist etc. The difference is that here, a) they can't physically hurt you and b) you have a teleport option. You can of course *try* to educate since a lot of so called hatred is based upon absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. While I appreciate most are probably too far gone and will never change, at least you won't get beaten up, knifed, shot trying. I was more referring to what one would call hate speech (like the number of times the ol' "N" word gets said at Waterhead) or other actions of bias (banning. etc.), not virtual weapons. _____________________
"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden |
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Bryony Constantine
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 32
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09-11-2008 09:59
Don't wish to detract but you will find <insert your favourite>ist people here, racist, sexist, mysogynist, bigamist etc. The difference is that here, a) they can't physically hurt you and b) you have a teleport option. You can of course *try* to educate since a lot of so called hatred is based upon absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. While I appreciate most are probably too far gone and will never change, at least you won't get beaten up, knifed, shot trying. Yes...there are plenty of ignorant people. I live near Liverpool and was wearing a tag from a group for residents in Liverpool/Merseyside....minding my own business...chatting to people. This "man" launches into a foul mouthed tirade against Liverpool...unprovoked! He broke his terms of service by doing that and so many other people break TOS and go unchallenged. I wish we could make such people realise that its unacceptable to attack others just because you feel like it. SL has been a laissez faire place for too long....*sigh* |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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09-11-2008 10:19
...Sadly, SL doesn't have a moron meter that stops these wingnuts from signing up. *sigh* Nothing's perfect, and LL didn't set out to screen for idiots. The opposite, in fact -- LL wants Second Life to appeal to "everyman", to be widely accessible. Nonetheless, I think that there IS a "moron meter" working here. First, the user interface isn't all that user-friendly, though LL keeps trying. You have to WANT to be here to learn it. Lots and lots of people try SL for an hour or two, and then never come back. Second, the place is chock full of "deviants". People who are wildly different from the norm...in appearance, language, intelligence, sexual practices, you name it. A lot of the people who can't stand anyone who isn't just like them simply can't take the diversity and leave. Yes, there is racism in SL. And every other human shortcoming. But on the whole, I think there are less of those shortcomings here than out there in RL. (One counterproductive factor though: Where there ARE shortcomings, they tend to be more glaringly obvious than in RL. The social penalties for expressing your true feelings are much lower here than they are on the outside. If a person is a racist, they might hide it most of the time in RL. Here, they feel free to speak their mind. Oh well, it makes it easier to see who your friends are.) _____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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09-11-2008 10:28
...Sadly, SL doesn't have a moron meter that stops these wingnuts from signing up. *sigh* Nothing's perfect, and LL didn't set out to screen for idiots. The opposite, in fact -- LL wants Second Life to appeal to "everyman", to be widely accessible. Nonetheless, I think that there IS a "moron meter" working here. First, the user interface isn't all that user-friendly, though LL keeps trying. You have to WANT to be here to learn it. Lots and lots of people try SL for an hour or two, and then never come back. Second, the place is chock full of "deviants". People who are wildly different from the norm...in appearance, language, intelligence, sexual practices, you name it. A lot of the people who can't stand anyone who isn't just like them simply can't take the diversity and leave. Yes, there is racism in SL. And every other human shortcoming. But on the whole, I think there are less of those shortcomings here than out there in RL. (One counterproductive factor though: Where there ARE shortcomings, they tend to be more glaringly obvious than in RL. The social penalties for expressing your true feelings are much lower here than they are on the outside. If a person is a racist, they might hide it most of the time in RL. Here, they feel free to speak their mind. Oh well, it makes it easier to see who your friends are.) _____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd |
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Dakota Tebaldi
Voodoo Child
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 1,873
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09-11-2008 10:29
But once again, it makes me want to create a black alt, just to see for myself. Actually, I'm seriously considering doing this. John Griffin is like one of my heroes. _____________________
"...Dakota will grow up to be very scary... but in a HOT and desireable kind of way." - 3Ring Binder
"I really do think it's a pity he didnt "age" himself to 18." - Jig Chippewa  |
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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09-11-2008 12:12
As well as racism, there is nationalist and regionalist abuse. Being of British origin, I've had nationalist abuse from an American who said "Oh, your country's the one that loses all its wars!" - but I was quick-minded enough to reply "But at least we don't shoot our allies!"
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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09-11-2008 12:25
I read an article once by someone who created a black avatar and was stunned at the racism she was met with. http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2006/02/the_skin_youre_.html But once again, it makes me want to create a black alt, just to see for myself. I tried it recently. Alternate days for a fortnight. I got laid most days in a white skin and not at all in a black skin. Pep (until I joined one of those "Black bulls for white women" groups) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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09-11-2008 13:20
Don't wish to detract but you will find <insert your favourite>ist people here, racist, sexist, mysogynist, bigamist etc. The difference is that here, a) they can't physically hurt you and b) you have a teleport option. You can of course *try* to educate since a lot of so called hatred is based upon absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. While I appreciate most are probably too far gone and will never change, at least you won't get beaten up, knifed, shot trying. Thankfully there's also an "-ist" missing from this list. As a counterpoint to the idiocy and bigotry, there are also those who are philanthropist. Not linked to the argument, just a counterpoint. I had a black alt briefly, just to see what happened. I didn't get ANY hassle at all with her but no one spoke to her - EVER. I'd say she was probably the prettiest avatar I have ever made but I found I couldn't play her anyway - I have to be myself (more or less - sometimes in RP but it's RP I would do online or off and probably HAVE done offline, lol) - having a black avatar simply seemed untrue to my nature and I felt I was being dishonest somehow towards other people. Same happened with a Japanese av ... _____________________
To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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09-11-2008 13:22
As well as racism, there is nationalist and regionalist abuse. Being of British origin, I've had nationalist abuse from an American who said "Oh, your country's the one that loses all its wars!" - but I was quick-minded enough to reply "But at least we don't shoot our allies!" Don't get me started on "we won the war for you" - anyone who seriously says that it's curtains time ... Conifer hon, this comment can only lead to Godwin tho _____________________
To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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09-11-2008 13:22
Black men are the hot yumness.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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09-11-2008 13:24
As well as racism, there is nationalist and regionalist abuse. Being of British origin, I've had nationalist abuse from an American who said "Oh, your country's the one that loses all its wars!" - but I was quick-minded enough to reply "But at least we don't shoot our allies!" That one unfortunately goes both ways. A lot of people are Anti-American, particularity because of current global events. _____________________
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Senga Tsarchon
Clinging to the future
Join date: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 185
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09-11-2008 15:19
<snipped to include only the part I wanted to address> 3. In the beginning, I was almost always misunderstood because of dialect and ARed and banned from Sims, not knowing why for a while. ...for example, in some areas I've lived in IRL, we tell folks phrases like "Get the hell outta here!" meaning "Wow, are you serious? That happened?", and it gets misconstrued (sp?). There are so many "versions of English" now, u know? or...like I've been called a "cheeky bastard" many times, which I didn't really understand the meaning of, until I sat down for 5 minutes and had an English lady explain it to me, lol. English dialects are tricky enough in RL, but if you're only using text, it's very difficult to know if you're communicating the right idea. For the record, I'm white in RL. I have avatars of different races, and sometimes use them, but I'm afraid that if I do this too much I'll be seen as a fraud - trying to be something I'm not. My alt is a black man, and is apparently invisible. No one talks to him, even if he speaks first. Must be my aftershave. An example of dialects: There are two expressions that have essentially the same meaning. One is from black America, and one is from England. Black American expression: "MM-mm-mm". Said with varying emphasis, depending on what the speaker means. English expression: "Quite". Said either off-handedly or with a particular chill to it. These phrases mean: I agree with you completely. Oh, that's too bad. I understand what you are saying. I don't agree with you, but you are obviously an idiot and I don't want to argue with you. This is pleasant. I don't like this, but won't say so in words. and others, of course. Hard enough to decipher face-to-face. As a side note, I've been shopping for skins, and noticed this interesting thing: Most of the Caucasian skins for sale are remarkably dark. So I guess there's also a slight bias against those of us in the fish-belly brigade, as well. I feel so oppressed.  |
