If you want a shock go to Popular places and count the Alts!

Why do you worry about it? There are so many places in SL to visit I personally think some just love starting drama or or they are just plaiin bored.

Hmmm. It would be interesting if only Premiums counted as traffic. It would be very interesting, actually. (I agree it'll never happen, but... that would be traffic data even I would be interested in.)

That would be interesting, I bet we would see total login drop drastically LOL

or a lot more premium accounts

The problem with implementing this is that it would have a domino effect. Most bot accounts are unverified, basic alts; and the hardware hash ban won't work on bots either (they can lie). So this would essentially have to mean getting rid of unverified accounts, and we've already seen that the Lindens don't want to do that (because - this is what I recall them saying - way back when all accounts had to be verified, something like 70% of people backed out of account creation at the verification page)

5 avi`s per IP at a time, they want to hassle with proxies? let them kill the proxies with the amount of data that will be going over them

Preimum accounts matter--they own the land--put wonderful homes on it (businesses too)
I think a lot achieve here what is impossible for them in RL. I wish they were given the
respect they deserve.

On person asked why do I worry about it--That's simple for me to answer. I worry about it for the same reason I worried about the meth lab that was operating down the street from my place in RL. Several people complained about that meth lab and nothing was done about it.

Until the night a guy was shot there.......

Well--this is SL--not that, but it's very much the same thing. I have an investment in SL, just like you do and I think we have a right to try to stop it from becoming a virtual disaster. I have seen countless complaints here about what we have talked about tonight. And I have not heard one word from the people that could stop it.

Have any of you?

I guess I'd better shut up or I will get my ass banned or something. LOL

Lion

It's easy to forget, but humans don't control avatars, software programs do. At this point the idea of "automation" must be based on someone's knowledge of what the Linden SecondLife Viewer can do, which with time, people add more and more.

Back to the topic... it would seem with the new search service being placed so prominently in the newest viewer, traffic gaming may be on its way down. But there's still the matter of the several pages titled "Popular Places Directory" ( ) in the new search system, who all provide "link juice" to popular places and influence their rank in search...

As Yumi said, those "Mini" Versions of client like "Ajaxian, Sleek, etc) are all ment for less power consumption and more or a builder within the game. But sad facts are many AFK users are writing in their profiles they don`t chat back because they either don`t understand english by explaining writing it in their profiles.But the facts are they can`t chat back because they don`t have the ability to. Now any smart club owner nows this. Infact those same club owners are running them to add their their traffic counts. Even LLABs themselves runs avies in this fashion. But running these client you need to be very alert, because anytime these client can be hacked. You want to cheat with inthe game, but also be willing to be hacked as well.

need to put a small defense for the freebies

i found SL when free accounts were recently introduced and went member pritty soon after with buying land
had an island for half a year
spend roughly $1300/$1400 USD on items, clothing, skins&stuff in my SL lifetime
BUT
i`m back at freebie again while keeping to spend more then is good for me lol

the free accounts is good, it allowes people to try SL, rent or "rent" on private estates without membership and spend money in shops
it`s the competition between some shop/mall owners that is killing it, why some? with the amount of shops in SL 100/200 but runners don`t count for many

Is it too much to ask to have the popular places list moderated by the Lindens? I mean can they just go visit the top 10 traffic areas and see if they have bots/campers and remove them from the list if they are? It's not like they would be dealing with a lot of work here... it's the top TEN. Ten lousy places to visit...maybe 20 or 30 if they have to kick off the places that have fake traffic. The popular places list is being seriously gamed and it shows badly on SL and LL because those are places that new people will try first.

Ok--let's say there is no programmable way to stop this nonsense with alt bots. I don't really believe that--but let's say it is not possible for the sake of argument.

What is possible?
1. A TOS statement that gaming the system to the obvious detriment of the general citizenry of SL is cause for bannishment. Second Life is for the enjoyment of Real People
not computer zombies that are programmed to take advantage of the Real People here.

2. Trips like I took tonight and many of you have taken by a Linden in WORLD--------
(The places we've talked about here are not hard to find after all).


Then the statement:

"Hmmm guys, I see 92 people here and at least 70 of them can't repond do me... and They all seem to be in a sardine can upstairs. Also, most of them have 10 pictures to this place to create inbound links. I will be back in 24 hours--If I see this again, everyone involved in this group will be banned, inventories will be deleted, and the land will be forfetted."

End of comment.

If people want to give things away--the that is their right to do so. I know I do that all the time. Freebies are good--as long as they were meant to be free items in the first place.

If someone can make a better mouse trap then more power to them--that is how things advance. Better things are good.

Also, there is nothing wrong with someone that wants to come here and just socialize, go dancing and make friends either. Friends are good.

This is'nt about that--this is about cheating everyone in SL that is spending huge amounts of time, trying to do things fairly and honestly, and have spent small fortunes to do it as well.

If traffic figures were eliminated I think the bots and zombies would soon die.

That's an interesting thought. It seems like an interesting way to combine the automated ranking system with some human judgment. The LL staff wouldn't have to go around hunting good places. The place operators would want to get a high score in the automatic ranking system, but not in a way that would trigger rejection by a human using judgment.

Sounds good, trouble is good griefing weapons aren't cheap to loose with alts

BTW these are traffic bots, not all alts camp.

When are Pinkin Noops actually going to do something interesting and useful?

I like that idea. It makes sense to moderate it. Especially as they are going to end up alienating a lot of people if this carries on for too long.

I don't have any problem with alts - if they are used as I know some people in the forums have alts. But bot/alt farms annoy me. Camping isn't so bad. As long as it is used to help newbies by giving them money and not just to game traffic numbers. And I live off freebies so I don't see anything wrong with them either...

Does anyone remember this thread? The lake zombie army?
/327/9e/215659/1.html

Amen.

The oddest thing of all is that some places are using so many bots that it's impossible for potential customers to TP there. Where's the sense in that?

That's something I have never understood either Chas. High traffic numbers may get me there due to a listing high in search, but if I am lagged out due to lots of campers using all the sim resources, I head straight back out and find somewhere else.

Hey Ya'll! (sorry, I have a Paula Deen obsession - she's just so darn cute!)

Thought I might toss my .02 into the pot.
I am in agreement with and have complete sympathy for the viewpoints being expressed. I think however when it comes to SL it can be hard to know how to handle things - that were they to occur in RL the solutions would be clear. In my short time here I have seen that I have to ask myself again and again how I would handle this situation in RL. My understanding is LL wants SL to evolve as a society would with as little interference as possible. I agree with that strategy for the most part - but it can leave good folks with a feeling of helplessness - looking to LL to fix it. But perhaps what needs to happen regarding bots and businesses such as this is exactly what is taking place here - a dialog amongst those that it bothers, and then perhaps a strategy. I dont believe it is against the TOS if say 50 or more people who found one of these bothoardingtraffichog locations abhorent all wrote politely but firmly worded notecards in formal protest to that land owner and dropped them on them. Maybe it would help maybe it wouldn't - but there are other strategys - all "legal" and moral that can be applied. Additionally what about a way of competeing? I know when I was a newbie I was just disgusted at the quality of what was supposedly the most popular places. What if we started rotating locations amongst those of us that hate these practices - some organized sit ins at locations that deserve some higher notice. Anyway I am rambling I just think that perhaps there are some things that can be done - much in the same way of your local business association - if we stick together.

Call me Pollyanna

LL should only count premium members in traffic

As posted above, this is the only real way to stop gaming the traffic numbers

These issues really bother me. I thought Secondlife was a place to share knowledge and had a strong TOS to stop spamming and other such wasteful activities.

I run two forums and moderate another forum all similar to this one. My main forum gets hit 20 to 30 times a day with Robot SPAMMER accounts. The all have the same goal selling drugs, sex or bogus Ponzi schemes. My true membership level is around 150 people. During heavy periods the spammers get as high as 150 hits per day. I block, ban IPs and delete everyone one of these bogus accounts. No one gets an account until I verify who they are.

The best way to combat these characters is to publicly identify the names and urge LL to ban them. Sounds like they are making inroads with their age verification system or other validation processes.

LL makes it clear that head counts matter. Storing 70 alts on a Sim is violating the spirit if not the letter of the TOS in my humble opinion.

You can't have it both ways. Some type of account verification should be required, ALTs banned and SPAMMERS banned. If not these types of abuses will continue.

IMHO - "G"

This would probably harm the Shelter's traffic numbers, since the primary folks that visit us are new residents - most of whom haven't gone premium yet.

That said - I still think this is a fantastic idea. We've never really cared that much about our traffic anyway, and this might even make other elements of the search feature more useful.

I agree that there should at least be a free trial period. Say, 30 days. But then everyone should pay a subscription. We're using a lot of resources here...servers, data lines, power, maintainers (sometimes). Or, in SL terms, prims and land. It's only fair that everyone pay a share.

LL: Get rid of unlimited free accounts! Either a free trial, or a limit on the number of alts per user, or both. Your lust for "registered users" is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

I agree, Let's make it real. LL is treating me like crap (Premium) until I have an account for thrity days. While ALTs are just hogging resources. Once I plunk down my hard earned and verified $USD I should have full rights and priveleges.

I don't have any ALTs and don't use them. Everything I do Inworld is really me not a program or robot.

"G"