Second Life Forums Archive - This is H4 Week: Are You Ready?

Marianne McCann

Feted Inner Child

Join date: 23 Feb 2006

Posts: 7,145

04-01-2008 13:23

From: Madhu Maruti

Is there a good forum post, blog post, or article somewhere that explains what Havok4 is? I understand it's something relating to the server-side simulator code but that's all I know. People seem optimistic that it will increase grid stability - I'd love to be directed to some basic information about why that is too.

I'm not any kind of programmer, but I'd love to read something that would give me a basic sense of what this change to SL actually is. I'm not asking anyone to write me a book about it, especially if the information is already out there - just some help finding out about it.

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/havok4-is-here-on-the-beta-grid/

_____________________

"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world

" - Prospero Linden

Lee Ponzu

What Would Steve Do?

Join date: 28 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,770

04-01-2008 13:45

From: Madhu Maruti

Is there a good forum post, blog post, or article somewhere that explains what Havok4 is?

Google Havok 4

_____________________

So many monkeys, so little Shakespeare.

Milla Alexandre

Join date: 22 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,759

04-01-2008 14:33

From: Atashi Toshihiko

The two are not related. Your RC viewer will continue to work fine. I use the RC viewer most of the time as well and one of my regions is already on the 1.20.whatever havoc4 release, there's no (new havoc4 related) problems with the RC viewer in the new simulator software. All the normal SL problems we know and love, remain equally uneffected.

-Atashi

Yay. And hey look...I have an avatar pic in here now. *sigh* all is right with the world......
crap...a thunderstorm.... lol

Smoke Gordonstone

-------------------------

Join date: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 371

04-01-2008 14:44

I know this has been asked before and I did a search for the previous thread but came up empty. How do you know if the sim you are on is H4?

Kathy Morellet

Registered User

Join date: 26 Jul 2006

Posts: 809

04-01-2008 14:45

Does anyone know where they are on the roll out? There has been nothing on the blog post to indicate if they even did the 1200+ regions yesterday and nothing at all about if they are updating the rest of the grid today?

Would be nice to know where things stand.

Imnotgoing Sideways

Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=

Join date: 17 Nov 2007

Posts: 4,694

04-01-2008 14:52

From: Smoke Gordonstone

I know this has been asked before and I did a search for the previous thread but came up empty. How do you know if the sim you are on is H4?

I was told you could check the sim version number in Help>About... But I forgot the number. (>_<

I know that Kuula and most welcome areas are updated... You can get the number from those places and compare. (^_^)

_____________________

Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94

IsabellaRosa Capalini

That Aussie Gal

Join date: 15 Apr 2007

Posts: 129

04-01-2008 15:03

If you click on help in world, then 'about secondlife' in that box, look for this

"Second Life Server 1.20.0.83683"

and if it has those numbers you know its havok4

_____________________

♥
In Australia, we like to feed vegemite to the dropbears

Raudf Fox

(ra-ow-th)

Join date: 25 Feb 2005

Posts: 5,119

04-01-2008 15:03

My home sim hasn't changed yet, but I'm looking forward to it! I've noticed that the mega prims that are at least 20x20x20 on the Beta actually work properly even when not phantom. I'm probably gonna spend some time testing that before I.. umm.. take apart my shop and rebuild it the way I want it.

_____________________

DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176

Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065?

Chaz Longstaff

Registered User

Join date: 11 Oct 2006

Posts: 685

04-01-2008 15:10

It appears that older servers are in 1.19.2.83236 etc range.

and that Havok Servers report as 1.20.0.83683 and upwards (based on Help - About at Ahern and Kuula.)

Smoke Gordonstone

-------------------------

Join date: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 371

04-01-2008 15:31

Thanks, I'm going to check my home sim this evening.

Jordguitar Flasheart

Registered User

Join date: 26 Nov 2005

Posts: 65

04-01-2008 15:47

Was the rollout paused or what? Asked the mentors in the mentor channel and didnt get a response. Anyone know if it is still going on?

Tristin Mikazuki

Sarah Palin ROCKS!

Join date: 9 Oct 2006

Posts: 1,012

04-01-2008 17:39

Good question would be nice if a blog was made with % done already.. hope they do it

_____________________

Usagi Musashi

UM ™®

Join date: 24 Oct 2004

Posts: 6,083

04-01-2008 18:01

For over 3 years yes! Its about time.

Ollj Oh

Registered User

Join date: 28 Aug 2007

Posts: 522

04-02-2008 02:44

Image shows over 150 1-prim boats, scriptet to scan for me, rotate and acellerate to my position, they also squeak on colission.
This was the limit BEFORE havok4, resulting in time dilation averaging at 0.4 on an otherwise empty "protected land" linden ocean.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7387/150lapraspx0.jpg

Now with Havok4 I can place at least 500 1-prim boats that follow me, and time dilation averages on 0,8.

I could not place more boats on the simulator because, what is the point of covering the whole ocean surface with boats that all collide while they navigate themself to a single target, 20 of such are already creepy; The region server could handle that without much of a fps/dilation drop, but the client viewer gets really low fps due to w-poly count and lack of bandwidth for all the coorinates and movement vectors of all the boats.

Beady Voom

Registered User

Join date: 31 Jan 2007

Posts: 148

04-02-2008 05:20

I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is?

_____________________

Regards,
Beady Voom

Dekka Raymaker

thinking very hard

Join date: 4 Feb 2007

Posts: 3,898

04-02-2008 05:42

From: Beady Voom

I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is?

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkability_Rules

Nika Talaj

now you see her ...

Join date: 2 Jan 2007

Posts: 5,449

04-02-2008 05:44

From: Beady Voom

I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is?

Totally true! You can relink your larger builds and eliminate whole linksets.

For an overview of all the changes in Havoc4:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/What%27s_Changed_With_Havok4

Here is the full description of the new linking rules:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkability_Rules

But here's a synopsis:

From: someone

Whether two prims can be linked depends only on their scale and position. Other properties (such as rotation, hollow, cut, etc.) are ignored. This means that linking calculations are done as the prim were an undistorted rectangular box (with the same X, Y, and Z sizes, but everything else 'normal').

Exception for megaprims: If any side is more than 10 meters, treat that side as if it were 10 meters.

At the small extreme: two tiny prims can be linked if they are within about 2 meters from each other.

At the large extreme: the largest linked object that can be created must fit within a sphere with a diameter of 54 meters.

Marianne McCann

Feted Inner Child

Join date: 23 Feb 2006

Posts: 7,145

04-02-2008 06:37

/me mutters somethign about her playground slides being bork-y

_____________________

"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world

" - Prospero Linden

Beady Voom

Registered User

Join date: 31 Jan 2007

Posts: 148

04-02-2008 07:27

Thanks for that.

I'm a little concerned about the bottom 2 items in the what's changed list:

LSL collision() events are broken
LSL VolumeDetect feature is broken

specifically, does anyone know in what way collision events are broken? They seem to be working in my bowling alley, but its worrying all the same.

_____________________

Regards,
Beady Voom

Atashi Toshihiko

Frequently Befuddled

Join date: 7 Dec 2006

Posts: 1,423

04-02-2008 08:00

From: Beady Voom

Thanks for that.

I'm a little concerned about the bottom 2 items in the what's changed list:

LSL collision() events are broken
LSL VolumeDetect feature is broken

specifically, does anyone know in what way collision events are broken? They seem to be working in my bowling alley, but its worrying all the same.

The wiki seems like it's about 6 months out of date - a lot of the text on ther has not been changed in ages.

Both collision events and volumdetect functions are working now as far as I know.

-Atashi

_____________________

Visit Atashi's Art and Oddities Store and the Waikiti Motor Works at beautiful Waikiti.

Reed Steamroller

Registered User

Join date: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 13

Horse "vehical" (physical, sculpted prims) falls through the ground and off the sim

04-02-2008 15:06

We've been developing walking, ride-able horses for the past few months now. Until today, they worked fine.

Their bodies are built out of sculpted prims and they are animated with a system that calculates the positional and rotational offset needed to achieve a pre-described animation (or set of animations), based on the world position/rotation of the root prim.

They are phantom while standing, but the second you jump on one, they go physical. So, in effect, while you are riding, the legs push you along as they go through their animations.

Or at least they did, until today, when i jumped on one and FELL THROUGH THE GROUND AND DISAPPEARED!

Not 4 days ago, I was on the havok 4 test sims, and the horses worked fine (if not better)!

What has changed from then until now? More importantly, what is this new problem dealt to us by LL, and how do we work around it?

Nika Talaj

now you see her ...

Join date: 2 Jan 2007

Posts: 5,449

04-02-2008 15:16

Reed, welcome to the forums!

Wow, grim problem. If I were you, I would post this question over in the Building Tips forum, where it may get some more focussed attention. Sounds like you need some help pronto.

Also, if there's any possibility you or a friend can make it, you can talk directly to the Havok4 team in SL at their next office hours, from Sidewinder Linden's blog post:

From: someone

Physics Office Hours
We will be continuing our office hours for scripters and builders to discuss physics-related issues directly with the physics development team. These office hours are scheduled at the region “Content to Hover” on Tuesdays at 11:00-12:00 PST and Thursdays at 17:00-18:00 PST

Presumably they can fill you in on recent changes.
.

This is H4 Week: Are You Ready?
Marianne McCann Feted Inner Child Join date: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 7,145	04-01-2008 13:23 From: Madhu Maruti Is there a good forum post, blog post, or article somewhere that explains what Havok4 is? I understand it's something relating to the server-side simulator code but that's all I know. People seem optimistic that it will increase grid stability - I'd love to be directed to some basic information about why that is too. I'm not any kind of programmer, but I'd love to read something that would give me a basic sense of what this change to SL actually is. I'm not asking anyone to write me a book about it, especially if the information is already out there - just some help finding out about it. http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/havok4-is-here-on-the-beta-grid/ _____________________ "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
Lee Ponzu What Would Steve Do? Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,770	04-01-2008 13:45 From: Madhu Maruti Is there a good forum post, blog post, or article somewhere that explains what Havok4 is? Google Havok 4 _____________________ So many monkeys, so little Shakespeare.
Milla Alexandre Milla Alexandre Join date: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,759	04-01-2008 14:33 From: Atashi Toshihiko The two are not related. Your RC viewer will continue to work fine. I use the RC viewer most of the time as well and one of my regions is already on the 1.20.whatever havoc4 release, there's no (new havoc4 related) problems with the RC viewer in the new simulator software. All the normal SL problems we know and love, remain equally uneffected. -Atashi Yay. And hey look...I have an avatar pic in here now. sigh all is right with the world...... crap...a thunderstorm.... lol
Smoke Gordonstone ------------------------- Join date: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 371	04-01-2008 14:44 I know this has been asked before and I did a search for the previous thread but came up empty. How do you know if the sim you are on is H4?
Kathy Morellet Registered User Join date: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 809	04-01-2008 14:45 Does anyone know where they are on the roll out? There has been nothing on the blog post to indicate if they even did the 1200+ regions yesterday and nothing at all about if they are updating the rest of the grid today? Would be nice to know where things stand.
Imnotgoing Sideways Can't outlaw cute! =^-^= Join date: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 4,694	04-01-2008 14:52 From: Smoke Gordonstone I know this has been asked before and I did a search for the previous thread but came up empty. How do you know if the sim you are on is H4? I was told you could check the sim version number in Help>About... But I forgot the number. (>_< I know that Kuula and most welcome areas are updated... You can get the number from those places and compare. (^_^) _____________________ Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94
IsabellaRosa Capalini That Aussie Gal Join date: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	04-01-2008 15:03 If you click on help in world, then 'about secondlife' in that box, look for this "Second Life Server 1.20.0.83683" and if it has those numbers you know its havok4 _____________________ ♥ In Australia, we like to feed vegemite to the dropbears
Raudf Fox (ra-ow-th) Join date: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 5,119	04-01-2008 15:03 My home sim hasn't changed yet, but I'm looking forward to it! I've noticed that the mega prims that are at least 20x20x20 on the Beta actually work properly even when not phantom. I'm probably gonna spend some time testing that before I.. umm.. take apart my shop and rebuild it the way I want it. _____________________ DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176 Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065?
Chaz Longstaff Registered User Join date: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 685	04-01-2008 15:10 It appears that older servers are in 1.19.2.83236 etc range. and that Havok Servers report as 1.20.0.83683 and upwards (based on Help - About at Ahern and Kuula.)
Smoke Gordonstone ------------------------- Join date: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 371	04-01-2008 15:31 Thanks, I'm going to check my home sim this evening.
Jordguitar Flasheart Registered User Join date: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 65	04-01-2008 15:47 Was the rollout paused or what? Asked the mentors in the mentor channel and didnt get a response. Anyone know if it is still going on?
Tristin Mikazuki Sarah Palin ROCKS! Join date: 9 Oct 2006 Posts: 1,012	04-01-2008 17:39 Good question would be nice if a blog was made with % done already.. hope they do it _____________________
Usagi Musashi UM ™® Join date: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 6,083	04-01-2008 18:01 For over 3 years yes! Its about time.
Ollj Oh Registered User Join date: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 522	04-02-2008 02:44 Image shows over 150 1-prim boats, scriptet to scan for me, rotate and acellerate to my position, they also squeak on colission. This was the limit BEFORE havok4, resulting in time dilation averaging at 0.4 on an otherwise empty "protected land" linden ocean. http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7387/150lapraspx0.jpg Now with Havok4 I can place at least 500 1-prim boats that follow me, and time dilation averages on 0,8. I could not place more boats on the simulator because, what is the point of covering the whole ocean surface with boats that all collide while they navigate themself to a single target, 20 of such are already creepy; The region server could handle that without much of a fps/dilation drop, but the client viewer gets really low fps due to w-poly count and lack of bandwidth for all the coorinates and movement vectors of all the boats.
Beady Voom Registered User Join date: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 148	04-02-2008 05:20 I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is? _____________________ Regards, Beady Voom
Dekka Raymaker thinking very hard Join date: 4 Feb 2007 Posts: 3,898	04-02-2008 05:42 From: Beady Voom I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkability_Rules
Nika Talaj now you see her ... Join date: 2 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,449	04-02-2008 05:44 From: Beady Voom I'm sure I read somewhere that objects could be linked at greater distances, is this not the case? And if so is there any information on what the change is? Totally true! You can relink your larger builds and eliminate whole linksets. For an overview of all the changes in Havoc4: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/What%27s_Changed_With_Havok4 Here is the full description of the new linking rules: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkability_Rules But here's a synopsis: From: someone Whether two prims can be linked depends only on their scale and position. Other properties (such as rotation, hollow, cut, etc.) are ignored. This means that linking calculations are done as the prim were an undistorted rectangular box (with the same X, Y, and Z sizes, but everything else 'normal'). Exception for megaprims: If any side is more than 10 meters, treat that side as if it were 10 meters. At the small extreme: two tiny prims can be linked if they are within about 2 meters from each other. At the large extreme: the largest linked object that can be created must fit within a sphere with a diameter of 54 meters.
Marianne McCann Feted Inner Child Join date: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 7,145	04-02-2008 06:37 /me mutters somethign about her playground slides being bork-y _____________________ "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
Beady Voom Registered User Join date: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 148	04-02-2008 07:27 Thanks for that. I'm a little concerned about the bottom 2 items in the what's changed list: LSL collision() events are broken LSL VolumeDetect feature is broken specifically, does anyone know in what way collision events are broken? They seem to be working in my bowling alley, but its worrying all the same. _____________________ Regards, Beady Voom
Atashi Toshihiko Frequently Befuddled Join date: 7 Dec 2006 Posts: 1,423	04-02-2008 08:00 From: Beady Voom Thanks for that. I'm a little concerned about the bottom 2 items in the what's changed list: LSL collision() events are broken LSL VolumeDetect feature is broken specifically, does anyone know in what way collision events are broken? They seem to be working in my bowling alley, but its worrying all the same. The wiki seems like it's about 6 months out of date - a lot of the text on ther has not been changed in ages. Both collision events and volumdetect functions are working now as far as I know. -Atashi _____________________ Visit Atashi's Art and Oddities Store and the Waikiti Motor Works at beautiful Waikiti.
Reed Steamroller Registered User Join date: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 13	Horse "vehical" (physical, sculpted prims) falls through the ground and off the sim 04-02-2008 15:06 We've been developing walking, ride-able horses for the past few months now. Until today, they worked fine. Their bodies are built out of sculpted prims and they are animated with a system that calculates the positional and rotational offset needed to achieve a pre-described animation (or set of animations), based on the world position/rotation of the root prim. They are phantom while standing, but the second you jump on one, they go physical. So, in effect, while you are riding, the legs push you along as they go through their animations. Or at least they did, until today, when i jumped on one and FELL THROUGH THE GROUND AND DISAPPEARED! Not 4 days ago, I was on the havok 4 test sims, and the horses worked fine (if not better)! What has changed from then until now? More importantly, what is this new problem dealt to us by LL, and how do we work around it?
Nika Talaj now you see her ... Join date: 2 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,449	04-02-2008 15:16 Reed, welcome to the forums! Wow, grim problem. If I were you, I would post this question over in the Building Tips forum, where it may get some more focussed attention. Sounds like you need some help pronto. Also, if there's any possibility you or a friend can make it, you can talk directly to the Havok4 team in SL at their next office hours, from Sidewinder Linden's blog post: From: someone Physics Office Hours We will be continuing our office hours for scripters and builders to discuss physics-related issues directly with the physics development team. These office hours are scheduled at the region “Content to Hover” on Tuesdays at 11:00-12:00 PST and Thursdays at 17:00-18:00 PST Presumably they can fill you in on recent changes. .

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

This is H4 Week: Are You Ready?