Second Life Forums Archive - "Pay" versus "Buy" contents

RockAndRoll Michigan

Registered User

Join date: 23 Mar 2009

Posts: 589

12-02-2009 06:18

From: Kitty Barnett

Or have both "Buy" for buying and "Pay" for gifting on the same prim.

And this method still uses the advantages to the consumer of using "Pay." So you do believe in "Pay" as a boon to the consumer or there'd be no reason for this, would there?

Kitty Barnett

Registered User

Join date: 10 May 2006

Posts: 5,586

12-02-2009 06:38

From: RockAndRoll Michigan

And this method still uses the advantages to the consumer of using "Pay." So you do believe in "Pay" as a boon to the consumer or there'd be no reason for this, would there?

From: Kitty Barnett

From the consumer's point of view there are nothing but downsides to "Pay" over "Buy".

Note that I said "

choosing) Pay *over* Buy".

If you use both methods on the same prim you're leaving "Buy" as an option so you're not dropping "Buy" in favour of "Pay" in that case.

And of course you ignored the other three that don't involve "Pay" at all

. (Although two of those still rely on llGiveInventory(List) so they're still not quite as reliable as the first solution using permissions)

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

12-02-2009 06:42

From: Kitty Barnett

A simple license check would solve that problem though if you're worried about someone ending up with a no mod/no copy copy of the script (without state since it's "Contents"

.

I don't want my inventory filled up with a dozen copies each of thirty different vendors credit card scripts. It's already enough of a hassle throwing out their damn landmarks and notecards.

_____________________

Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore

Innula Zenovka

Registered User

Join date: 20 Jun 2007

Posts: 1,825

12-02-2009 06:47

From: Kitty Barnett

"Buy" hasn't failed even once in 3.5 years for me ("Stale transaction" aside since that doesn't end up taking/keeping the money).

"Pay" on the other hand has failed literally dozens upon dozens of times. Couple that with the not-uncommon sentiment that "it's all LL's fault, nothing to do with me, just buy it again or go away!" or the ridiculous "it'll come, just relog a few times" hollow excuses all make "Pay" inherently unreliable.

In contrast, I've had maybe half a dozen transactions, as I recall, fail on me in the last couple of years in the sense the vending prim took my money and didn't deliver. The most recent was with a pay system, one was with buy and the others I can't recall what.

The "buy" I remember distinctly because, despite my following my usual practice of sending a notecard the transaction details and a polite request for delivery of the goods, it was the only one where I had difficulty getting delivery -- the merchant as good as accused me of lying to him because "buy" transactions "don't fail" (this despite my pointing out that the transaction took place about 10 minutes before an in-world warning against buying and selling stuff because the servers were having a fit of the vapours).

In all the other cases, merchants have been perfectly reasonable and forwarded replacement goods without question.

Viktoria Dovgal

…

Join date: 29 Jul 2007

Posts: 3,593

12-02-2009 06:59

Yep, I had a "Buy contents" failure a couple of months ago too, partial delivery. Fortunately the seller was a sweety, and our shared ineptitude with each others' languages made it fun.

Suki Hirano

冬の温暖

Join date: 30 May 2008

Posts: 172

12-02-2009 07:28

From: Indeterminate Schism

The idea that 'buy' lets you see what exactly what you'll get is laughable. OK it might work for non-prim clothes, body-parts and other specific types but "an object" is "an object". I could, for instance, call my creation "genuine Ferrari with RL keys" and put it in a fancy vehicle set 'for sale, contents'.
It would still be a plywood cube though - and you couldn't tell until you bought it and rezzed it.
More normally, anything made of prims will just show as 'an object' and you can't tell anything about its construction or any animations, scripts, etc. that it itself contains.

Actually, thinking about it, unless you're buying a copy of something the contents could always be misrepresented - you're trusting a pretty picture and, possibly, description on the vendor. That fabulous looking skin could actually just be a renamed freebie and nothing like it is shown.

Given that, I can't think of ANY real advantages to 'buy', except when set to 'original' or maybe 'copy', although I'm not even sure about that one.

As the consumer, either you trust the merchant or you don't. As a merchant 'pay' has many, many advantages because it is scripted so can, simply, do more. My favourite reason for using 'pay' is for anyone that has more than one store-location: networked vendors mean you only need to update the stock in the server(s) and not in every individual vendor.

I did not say you can actually see the item, but at least it gives you some form of reassurance that at least you're getting what you think you're getting. Yes there are lots of those despicable shop owners on the grid, who photoshop extravagant ads, and in the end what do you get? A simple shirt layer and a skirt layer, while on the ad it looks like some expertly made sculpty-fest. Also it gives description about the permission doesn't it? Some shop owners are just so hopelessly forgetful that they don't include ANY INFORMATION on the ad. It's simply a picture slapped with the store name. Are you buying the necklace? Or the dress? Or the shoes? Or the eyelashes? Or some empty box? The buy option lets you know. The third major disadvantage is that lots of shop owners are very irresponsible (I seriously want to name some here, but too bad that's against the rules). They're never ever online, and neither does their staff. Wtf are you doing in SL as a creator if you're never online? This means that there won't be re-deliveries, or any help on the product for that matter.
I seriously hesitate to use the Pay option, due to so many dreadful experiences with shop owners who do not deserve to be that on SL. It's a matter of trust; if I didn't have that many experiences I would have a different opinion on the Pay option.

_____________________

空想の旋律

RockAndRoll Michigan

Registered User

Join date: 23 Mar 2009

Posts: 589

12-02-2009 09:32

From: Argent Stonecutter

I don't want my inventory filled up with a dozen copies each of thirty different vendors credit card scripts. It's already enough of a hassle throwing out their damn landmarks and notecards.

If the scripters practiced good coding practice they'd never have the customers receiving their scripts. Gotta love people who script without attention to detail.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

12-02-2009 09:36

From: RockAndRoll Michigan

If the scripters practiced good coding practice they'd never have the customers receiving their scripts.

They don't, if you buy it using their script.

But if the seller used Buy instead of Pay they wouldn't be able to avoid it because there's NO SCRIPT INVOLVED with Buy.

_____________________

Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore

Indeterminate Schism

Registered User

Join date: 24 May 2008

Posts: 236

12-03-2009 02:13

Somewhat differently - it's good to be consistent! Stores that mix 'buy' and 'pay' are just confusing.

"Pay" versus "Buy" contents
RockAndRoll Michigan Registered User Join date: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 589	12-02-2009 06:18 From: Kitty Barnett Or have both "Buy" for buying and "Pay" for gifting on the same prim. And this method still uses the advantages to the consumer of using "Pay." So you do believe in "Pay" as a boon to the consumer or there'd be no reason for this, would there?
Kitty Barnett Registered User Join date: 10 May 2006 Posts: 5,586	12-02-2009 06:38 From: RockAndRoll Michigan And this method still uses the advantages to the consumer of using "Pay." So you do believe in "Pay" as a boon to the consumer or there'd be no reason for this, would there? From: Kitty Barnett From the consumer's point of view there are nothing but downsides to "Pay" over "Buy". Note that I said "choosing) Pay over Buy". If you use both methods on the same prim you're leaving "Buy" as an option so you're not dropping "Buy" in favour of "Pay" in that case. And of course you ignored the other three that don't involve "Pay" at all . (Although two of those still rely on llGiveInventory(List) so they're still not quite as reliable as the first solution using permissions)
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	12-02-2009 06:42 From: Kitty Barnett A simple license check would solve that problem though if you're worried about someone ending up with a no mod/no copy copy of the script (without state since it's "Contents". I don't want my inventory filled up with a dozen copies each of thirty different vendors credit card scripts. It's already enough of a hassle throwing out their damn landmarks and notecards. _____________________ Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/ "And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Innula Zenovka Registered User Join date: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 1,825	12-02-2009 06:47 From: Kitty Barnett "Buy" hasn't failed even once in 3.5 years for me ("Stale transaction" aside since that doesn't end up taking/keeping the money). "Pay" on the other hand has failed literally dozens upon dozens of times. Couple that with the not-uncommon sentiment that "it's all LL's fault, nothing to do with me, just buy it again or go away!" or the ridiculous "it'll come, just relog a few times" hollow excuses all make "Pay" inherently unreliable. In contrast, I've had maybe half a dozen transactions, as I recall, fail on me in the last couple of years in the sense the vending prim took my money and didn't deliver. The most recent was with a pay system, one was with buy and the others I can't recall what. The "buy" I remember distinctly because, despite my following my usual practice of sending a notecard the transaction details and a polite request for delivery of the goods, it was the only one where I had difficulty getting delivery -- the merchant as good as accused me of lying to him because "buy" transactions "don't fail" (this despite my pointing out that the transaction took place about 10 minutes before an in-world warning against buying and selling stuff because the servers were having a fit of the vapours). In all the other cases, merchants have been perfectly reasonable and forwarded replacement goods without question.
Viktoria Dovgal … Join date: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 3,593	12-02-2009 06:59 Yep, I had a "Buy contents" failure a couple of months ago too, partial delivery. Fortunately the seller was a sweety, and our shared ineptitude with each others' languages made it fun.
Suki Hirano 冬の温暖 Join date: 30 May 2008 Posts: 172	12-02-2009 07:28 From: Indeterminate Schism The idea that 'buy' lets you see what exactly what you'll get is laughable. OK it might work for non-prim clothes, body-parts and other specific types but "an object" is "an object". I could, for instance, call my creation "genuine Ferrari with RL keys" and put it in a fancy vehicle set 'for sale, contents'. It would still be a plywood cube though - and you couldn't tell until you bought it and rezzed it. More normally, anything made of prims will just show as 'an object' and you can't tell anything about its construction or any animations, scripts, etc. that it itself contains. Actually, thinking about it, unless you're buying a copy of something the contents could always be misrepresented - you're trusting a pretty picture and, possibly, description on the vendor. That fabulous looking skin could actually just be a renamed freebie and nothing like it is shown. Given that, I can't think of ANY real advantages to 'buy', except when set to 'original' or maybe 'copy', although I'm not even sure about that one. As the consumer, either you trust the merchant or you don't. As a merchant 'pay' has many, many advantages because it is scripted so can, simply, do more. My favourite reason for using 'pay' is for anyone that has more than one store-location: networked vendors mean you only need to update the stock in the server(s) and not in every individual vendor. I did not say you can actually see the item, but at least it gives you some form of reassurance that at least you're getting what you think you're getting. Yes there are lots of those despicable shop owners on the grid, who photoshop extravagant ads, and in the end what do you get? A simple shirt layer and a skirt layer, while on the ad it looks like some expertly made sculpty-fest. Also it gives description about the permission doesn't it? Some shop owners are just so hopelessly forgetful that they don't include ANY INFORMATION on the ad. It's simply a picture slapped with the store name. Are you buying the necklace? Or the dress? Or the shoes? Or the eyelashes? Or some empty box? The buy option lets you know. The third major disadvantage is that lots of shop owners are very irresponsible (I seriously want to name some here, but too bad that's against the rules). They're never ever online, and neither does their staff. Wtf are you doing in SL as a creator if you're never online? This means that there won't be re-deliveries, or any help on the product for that matter. I seriously hesitate to use the Pay option, due to so many dreadful experiences with shop owners who do not deserve to be that on SL. It's a matter of trust; if I didn't have that many experiences I would have a different opinion on the Pay option. _____________________ 空想の旋律
RockAndRoll Michigan Registered User Join date: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 589	12-02-2009 09:32 From: Argent Stonecutter I don't want my inventory filled up with a dozen copies each of thirty different vendors credit card scripts. It's already enough of a hassle throwing out their damn landmarks and notecards. If the scripters practiced good coding practice they'd never have the customers receiving their scripts. Gotta love people who script without attention to detail.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	12-02-2009 09:36 From: RockAndRoll Michigan If the scripters practiced good coding practice they'd never have the customers receiving their scripts. They don't, if you buy it using their script. But if the seller used Buy instead of Pay they wouldn't be able to avoid it because there's NO SCRIPT INVOLVED with Buy. _____________________ Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/ "And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Indeterminate Schism Registered User Join date: 24 May 2008 Posts: 236	12-03-2009 02:13 Somewhat differently - it's good to be consistent! Stores that mix 'buy' and 'pay' are just confusing.

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"Pay" versus "Buy" contents