My design was copied

Further, the SexGen case was not about patents. It was about copyright (illegal copies through an exploit) and trademark/unfair competition (selling the copies under the SexGen name).

No one has patent rights in SL.

Whether intellectual property should be protected, and whether the law actually protects intellectual, are two different issues.

Much of the content created for Second Life is protected by copyright law. According to the U.S. Copyright office, works protected by copyright law include, "pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works." The fact that the works are digital do not remove them from copyright protection, because, "Copyright protects 'original works of authorship' that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device."

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp

The work need not be registered to be protected. According to the U.S. Copright Office, "Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork

Furthermore, "In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#register

oh

sorry this stuff is all greek to me

I RL fashion items are copied without problems every day of the week .The fashion houses Know this and can't do a thing about it .Large copy companies,House hold names in their own right,get inside information then put out products within days.These items are tweaked, lesser quality,and dirt cheap.What can you do ,nothing,thats the way of life real or second.Perhaps look at it this way :-Imitation is the highest form of flattery.But it's still a shame.

As far as I'm aware and IANAL..

If someone sees your clothing design and copies it with a texture extractor then they have broken the law.

If someone sees your clothing design, copies it with a texture extractor, and then changes the copy, then they have broken the law.

But if someone sees your clothing design, tries to make a similar thing themselves from scratch, and is successful, then they have _not_ broken the law.

I know that the RL clothing industry has had problems with this for years - they've tried to insist that clothes should be patentable, but the legal system has refused, for fear that the result would be that someone would patent the top (or similar) and then monopolise supply of it.

Certainly this is a classic problem for scripters - that anyone can copy the functionality of a successful scripted item freely, without having to do the R&D needed to predict that the item would succeed before it existed.

Phil I'm not sure where I'm going wrong explaining that the design that was in her store to sell was MY design, as if she bought it from my vendor and she admitted it was Mine (I made it). She did not see it and copy/make it. If it was all about her just seeing it likeing it and making it on her own I would feel diferent. But it was what I made and then she made a few changes telling me now its changed and is ok to sell. It was still what I made she put back up in diferent colors and slight v neck.

If it were me, I'd set myself up in a niche that's not as easily copied.




I disagree with copyright theft, and would fight tooth and nail if my own works were lifted wholesale without my express okay.

But with that said, if your business model is so easily copied that seeing a boxed display that even kinda looks like yours (in general) threatens the entirety of your being, it's time to rethink your way of doing business.


Because even if you don't have straight copies, you'll have fierce competition. And without being able to separate yourself from the crowd, you lose.




Now, speaking specifically, artists and "artists" who work in textures will run into this problem often. Ditto for people that use default shapes, and objects that are very, very, very easily copied in about two steps.



Lesson learned: Don't be the victim. Adapt.

If necessary, give 'em a good old takedown. Because countering IP theft is what those are for.


(Of course, if that happened, it wouldn't make for such highly entertaining forum reading)

Considering this is the first time that I know of in 3 1/2 years of being a designer that this has happened either I've been lucky or theres more out there I just dont know about. Another poster said there are some that have had many designs copied. As I said there is only so many ways you can make a dress or outfit so of course there will be some that look simular to others so I am not really worried about it.

What upset me is that it wasn't just a copy and it wasnt where she said she got it. All my perms are set correct. Someone said copybots can do clothing now so I dont know. I am just upset that she supposedly made changes and put my texture back up. And because she is affiliated with a LL made group that it would be a waste of my time to file against her, but because she is in that paticular group she should know better then to do this.

I will continue to go on this hasnt wreaked my business by no means I just wanted some feed back from others... if it was theirs the way it went down how they would feel.

There have been *a lot* of threads, exactly like this one, about the exact same issue of theft.



Consider it a perverse compliment; obviously, they liked your design enough to use it themselves.



Then, consider how to better it as a designer. While you crush the foolish mortals that directly copy your work.

Que sera, sera.


Does life stop? No.

Therefore, no one can cry theft of anything. What you make, what you build so can thousands of others. Because someone else has a similar product means it was copied from you? And who are you?

These people give themselves waayyy too much credit and importance as far as what they build and who they presume to be. Get off it. It's not real life. {This is directed in general}

It always comes down to the same tired song and dance of:

"It's not a matter of ego, it's a matter of not giving away your business. If you put hours of work into a product you...." Yeah, yeah we've heard it all before but no matter which way it's sliced it still doesn't mean a thing!

It's like the above lines are the anthem of sl's "designers." It's all you ever hear from them. Change it to something that actually means something.

Edit* Actually it's not all you ever hear from them, this is. "My IM's are capped so I couldn't respond to your request for exchange or refund.. {since I sold you crap}.


Repeats:

"No one has patent rights in sl." NO ONE!! Therefore, since you don't you don't own squat so you can't whine and cry over items you believe you and only you invented.

But it doesn't matter, it will never change. They will always believe in their minds that what they've made belongs to them and them alone. pfft! You guys go right ahead and continue to tell yourselves you're the sole inventor and creator of everything you make. Don't forget to include photoshop and everything else you use to make your items.


Sad state of minds.

Ricardo I really feel sorry for you. Someone must have really hurt your feelings to get you so peeved at all designers. I always help my customers, refund if not happy with my designs which has happened twice in 3 1/2 years and if there is a problem I will give them a free outfit because of the issue. SLX box might not have sent the item, SL might have hiccuped, whatever the problem.

I do tell customers to please send a notecard also because the IM's do get capped. Here is an example.... I rent a spot at a mall and the owner of the land takes it back from the person renting it and so all my vendors are sent back to me, all of them will cap the Ims cause there is a message saying things returning at a high rate. I do respond within 2 days to any IMs or notecards I recieve. And I have a mailbox in my store as well in case someone wants to drop a note in.

Not all designers are like the one or few you have dealt with. Im not sure if its because you deal with the bad seeds of society in RL that makes you so angry towards us but there are some really good people left in the world and in the designing community.

I know my responding to you probably is useless but I feel bad that someone has made you so angry because of bad customer service or just mean toward you as a person just going through the steps called life. So sorry and hope one day that armor of anger will fall and you wont judge us all by what happened to you.

Unfortunately, as in RL, it is rarely clearly black and white, except in the extreme cases.

Clearly if someone has copied something prim for prim, pixel for pixel, then it is a copyright infringement. On the other hand, just because something is similar doesn't mean that there is any copyright infringement - otherwise the first person who ever created a table in SL, could file DCMA's against every other table in SL.

However, in most cases it is somewhere in between such clear cut cases. This is why in RL, court judgements are often necessary - this is why many worry about the safe-harbour clauses of the DCMA where for a service provider to avoid liability they must act on the accusation of theft rather than on a legal verdict of theft...

In RL, companies protect the brand rather than the object itself - coca cola doesn't go after people producing cokes, but it will go after anyone using the name coca cola, or the swirly letter design or the curved bottle to sell their coke. Clothing manufacturers include logos and brands in their clothes. The more imaginative might incorporate the logo into the actual design of the object rather than just stick it on afterwards.

Matthew

Yes, I understood that from your first post. I was refering to the 'changed' clothes that she made when I said that I don't know of she took yours and simply modified them, or if she made them from scratch. If she modified yours, then it's wrong - I said that - but if she made them from scratch, then I don't see it as being wrong. Maybe my memory isn't so good, but I don't think you said whether or not she made the 'changed' ones herself, or just modified yours. Not in so many words, anyway. Even the post I've quoted doesn't make crystal clear, but maybe that's me

You've heard of DMCA, right?

did anyone else notice this part....

the lady told Zazas that she knew Zazas made it, BEFORE she [the lady] came to SL, THEN told her she [the lady] got it from a BIAB

now... how would someone not in SL, even know about something someone made before they even came to SL, and how would they know what a BIAB is...

confusing to say the least

While the sentiment of your message may be somewhat correct, I think you're severely missing the point of these threads (beyond the drama, that is).


That being:

Supposedly, creators and authors are given this wonderful mandate of copyright over their works. This is a protection afforded no matter what (or where) your creation is, provided that isn't waived at the door.


However, that means absolutely squat in the digital age, where certain types of works may be quite easily lifted and copied without any effort. Done so by the original "designer" notwithstanding.

The shocker comes when that magical "copyright" doesn't seem to help anymore, and surprises quite a few "designers" when their works are lifted.

Cue violin music.

This especially affects certain subclasses of creators: artists (images), musicians (MP3s), writers (.PDFs), and most types of prepackaged software (warez).


Now, IANAL. But:

* Yes, that little act of copyright is afforded to these works.
* Yes, if resold exactly as it was, that constitutes an illegal copy and a "taking" of the value of the work.
* And yes, that is illegal under US law.

(Ignoring the recent WoWGlider ruling on copying to RAM, which is utter BS)


Similar designs and derivative works are however, fair game in many cases.


It is also very hard to prove an abuse of copyright, and even harder to actually enforce it in an age where that sort of copying is just that easy. Arguably: as it should be with raw data.



In most cases, the answer is to adapt to the new market, by making your business less easy to copy, or using those copies and freedoms to your advantage. This holds especially true for businesses that are remixes of popular culture.

Or one may go the overlitigous route: cry to the authorities, fight tooth and nail over some shoddy design, and hope for the best.



The choice is really that of the original author. And the knee-jerk reaction, tends to be the latter.

Cue the ever-popular, ZOMGWTFBBQ rant thread on copyright.

But that doesn't work so well on SL. SL musicians can't charge for live performances. SL clothes designers can't charge premiums for custom items because the clothes can be copied from an avatar wearing them. SL scripters can't use network services to combat piracy because the majority of scripted items that people actually want to buy are relatively simple and don't need networking.

cypress Rosewood just made a decent sum playing a concert, live, streaming.

He drew a crowd of at least 40-50 avatars, with donations of at least $40-100 USD (>L$12000 in the donation bucket alone) and more on purchases of the recording (L$1500 a purchase, times roughly half or more of those in attendance).

He may deserve more than that for an hour or two of his time, but don't tell me that doesn't work.


Sure you can. It's called charging a commission, or providing building services to others. Works great for the furry designers, or so I hear.

Even keeping a decent line of high quality goods constitutes a service that keeps avatars coming back.



Ditto, service aspect. Though plying the trade as a scripter can be just as hard as a texture artist.

Usually, it's best to offer some simple stuff for free, and back it up with lines of products that keep people coming back (ie, games), as I can personally attest to.


All of those methods have proven effective in some form, albeit not being a perfect magic bullet.

So, no -- do not try telling me it is impossible to craft an effective business around what it is you enjoy doing.

It can be marginally harder than selling sex widgets, but the niches both exist and are entirely functional to certain levels.

Ok, can someone explain to me why in SL people get so bent out of shape that something is made very similar to someone else's original design, but in RL it is a matter of course is design and business. I dont mean a direct copy being sold in SL...but take these examples. The day after the Oscar's, a whole line of duplicates of the clothing designer's work that was seen on the red carpet is available for sale by knock off designers at extremely reduced prices...these duplicates even reference which star and whose design they are copying. There are NO issues with that in RL. The duplicates get sold...end of story. Furniture, kitchen faucets, you name it....there are lower priced duplicates of TONS of designer work. The only issue in RL is if you say you are selling GUCCI handbags when you are really making and selling GUCCI look-alike bags.

So, why is the same method of modeling and duplicating items in SL seen as fraud, crime and evil? Again, im not talking about taking someone's item and calling it their own and reselling.

Simple: ***LACK OF INNOVATION***

Which quickly leads to Route Litigate instead of building a better business.

jeff...huh?

In a way, it's about "designers" being so wrapped up in their work, that they fail to notice the highly generic (and thus, copyable) nature of the way they do business.

Hence, lack of innovation == copies == anger == knee-jerk litigation.

ty...i agree! I make stuff and do quite well selling it, but i didnt invent couches or curtains...LOL

Copies lead to fear.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to feeding the lawyers.