Sunday's new blog entry on Age Verification

omg i cant stop laughing

Reminded me of this weekend story:
www.chicagotribune.com/news/offtopic/sns-ap-odd-hanukkah-ham,0,4994887.story

I am sorry Robin bears the brunt of this, but corporations far far too easily hide behind walls and so deny responsibility for their decisions. SOMEONE made this decision. Whether it is Robin or not we do not know, although I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest she and Daniel had a significant role in authoring this scheme.

As we are not likely ever to know which persons within LL actually made this decision to go forward with this futile exercise, I think it is perfectly reasonable to point the fingers at the only Lindens who have chosen to publically defend that decision. She is, in this case, the representative of the unknown persons with whom the public is angry.

She's an adult. If I can handle not visiting SL any more, she can handle a few calls for resignation.

"parents to monitor their child's online activities"?

The simple truth is that SL is an 18+ activity, and it is wrong that those of us who can follow the rules, being over 18, have to suffer because of stupid little kids who think they're "exempt" from that rule.

Broccoli

Some valid concerns were raised on the blog: The latest statements are in direct contradiction to earlier statements (notably the "publish verified info in your profile" and the "vaulted two years".
I think it would do a lot of good for the trust if LL would address those earlier statements and explicitly retract them (or possibly verify them as things to come later). As is, I'm left with a feeling of "this is what we're told now, but we have caught glimpses of how it'll be soon, despite LLs current posts to the contrary", which may or may not be true, but is hard to shake.

Personally, I feel that Dan and Robin Linden are spearheading a move to turn SL into a 3D chatroom between verified RL persons, which is a far cry from the "be anything you want in a world you create" which originally drew me to SL. If this is indeed the way SL is going, they need to come out and say it, and rebrand the whole thing. If not, somebody needs to rein in those two and the faction they represent, because they are severely damaging the "Your World. Your Imagination." brand.

which leads to the question... what ever happened to daniel linden? seems odd that he would work so hard authoring all this shit then just decide to leave LL.

I believe Daniel Linden is Daniel Huebner RL, yes?

If so, he appears to have left LL sometime after June, and is now a product manager at Doppelganger, a venture-backed startup just now announcing its product vSide, a "3D Facebook".

This info was obtained via Google, simple searches.

Really? That's an interesting point of view. I read this as a shot across the bow for the group of SL users raising concerns right now. As in, if you don't like this solution, we'll come up with a solution that DOES retain your data. How would you like that? (so shuddup)

It could be read either way...

I read it more as Qie did, and hope that LL can be driven to accept a solution more like that which I offered in post 25.

LL may be driven to another solution simply by the egregious holes in Integrity's databases. At this point LL is between a rock and a hard place.

I'm sure every perv and kid in SL has scrambled to verify using Anna Nichole Smith's or Mohammed Atta's IDs, or perhaps the ones in online databases cited here, for example:
http://www.b-westerns.com/search.htm

I'm equally sure that Integrity will be cleaning their databases soon so that you cannot verify as Anna Nichole Smith, etc.. However, if they contact avatars who verified using bad info to invalidate their verification, then we know that they kept the verification information and looked at it under non-court-order circumstances

So my guess would be that LL will throw out all verifications that happen during the beta period and require everyone to re-verify, once Integrity has cleaned up their databases.

Or, even better, LL could abandon this verification path, and actually try to protect children by keeping them off the main grid period.

Robin is saying that if this process doesn't work, they'll look for another way of verifying. This is beta, it's also optional so people need to simmer down a little.

I won't be verifying my alts because I'm not passing information to Integrity that they can't verify. Driving licence and passport numbers, they don't have access to those databases. They're not listed on either the DVLA or UK Passport agency as being a partner or a company that seeks information from these databases.

I'll happily verify my alts if they change it back to be able to verify with name, address and date of birth. That is information Integrity can check.

Well generally governments have information on government issued ID. However when did Integrity get a place in government? I can't recall seeing them on the ballot paper.

I haven't researched the precise answer. But typically, where the data is kept only to assist the federal government in law enforcement duties, it could only be accessed by the federal government (or perhaps- and, hopefully- by a defendant in a criminal case in which such information were relevant). In that case, it could not be accessed by a party in a civil case (such as a divorce), and it's probably the case that state governments can't access it at all no matter what the reason, that only a federal court (or in the case of Patriot Act provisions, a super-secret federal homeland security court) could order the access.

This is typically the way such a thing would work, as I said, I haven't spent a few hours of legal research on this specifically. Though getting a confirmation from Linden Labs that this is true would be a nice thing- their legal staff should already know the answer and should be able to easily provide it.

To be precise, robin said "if necessary we’ll look into other options to ensure that minors are not accessing Second Life or inappropriate content."

This is continued spin and dishonesty from LL.
IDV does nothing to "to ensure that minors are not accessing Second Life or inappropriate content."
An honest posting would speak of looking for "a way", and not "another way".

If the anonymous posting of some arbitrary information that can be matched by Integrity is "verification", then the anonymous posting of an assertion that the poster is 18+ is equally "verification".
Integrity's "verification" has no more worth than the "are you 18+?" question. It's just dressed up with smoke and mirrors to look like more to the uninformed.
It's not a verification system. It's an assertion system.

If legislators had any intelligence and/or were not in the pockets of vested interests, they would make false assertion of age to gain access to restricted goods/services/content a criminal offence.

Speaking of which: What's the position in the USA if an underage person is detected using fake ID to buy alcohol or gain entry to somewhere they should not be? In some parts of the world the law still penalises the innocent store/club owner.




This might be Beta and optional, but the concrete is hardening more as each day passes.
The earlier people start ridiculing the naked king, the better.

I'm sure that a lot of people in LL know a great deal about the issue, but there's no way that they are going to us about it.
I'm not confident that would even talk to each other about it. That would lose them love points.

I've worked with some corporate sales/marketing people. Once a public mission gets rolling, you're either a "yes" person or you're a pain in the ass. I understand that within LL this is even more so the case.

My big question is this. when this crap fails due to the number of kids that get in using false information whats next?

Some parent that is too busy to monitor their own kids will sue LL for failing to protect little Susie from seeing naughty things...when she shouldnt have been there in the first place and some liberal judge will award them millions for 'psychological damages'.

Hmmm that all makes sense ... we haven't heard anything from LL's lawyers so far though, so I bet we hear nothing going forward.

Amity (or any other lawyers out there), do you have any opinion as to whether this approach protects LL from lawsuits? Integrity "indemnifies" them, presumably against any failure of the verification system. I assume that if Integrity does not clean their databases of dead person's ID info, then a minor verifying as Anna Nichole Smith would be covered under their indemnification.

If the verification system works and a minor verifies using stolen ID, then is LL protected from lawsuit if they are subsequently abused in SL?

As this is only the Beta test, will you need to do this all over again when the final version comes out?

I personally feel that Robin has not been a good Community Relations officer. She let us down with this issue. Now that may have been due to orders from higher up. But for us the residents she is the lead on this.

Her comments on a blog posting 2 months ago where she professed amazement that we were still concerned with the way IDV/Age Verification was being presented shows that she was out of touch. She promissed discussion on the issue and took two months to hash together a few postings that provide no more information than was available back then. No discussion. But here it is.

Was she told not to, I do not know. But there has been no communication with us the residents on this, except to encourage residents to "test" it and rehashing the same line we retain nothing.

The comments from Lindens are never the same. Data kept, data is thrown away, data is stored. It still has not been answered and that is the simple question.

Verification also has another danger. By using the word "Verified" they are implying that the user/resident is of age, has been vetted and passed muster. Many will cease to keep a look out for minors. "They are verified so they must just act childish." This is the exact opposite of what we want. We want kids protected and accept that they are going to try open doors. That is what bing a kid is all about. Forever waiting to be old enough to......

By having a system that is easy to circumvent and be verified all the kids will get the status so that they are left alone. "Hey look at my profile I am verified so leave me alone" or "let me in".

This is not safe, not good and scary.

It looks like the firm that SL has selected to perform age verification is also a firm that has been an ardent anti-pornography crusader and large donator to the Republican party. Consultant: Aristotle International Inc
Amount received in 2003-2004 from Mark Kennedy (R-MN-06): $20,474

Second Life is about to initiate an age verification system that could put all adult content worlds at risk and block a large number of users from being able to access adult lands. This age verification system according to the SL blog will be handled by a third party that will request driver's license and or Social Security numbers. How much in extra fees will it cost SL users and additional fees members will have to pay if they want to access adult oriented worlds? Fight this now while You can and make it known to Linden Labs that You will not stand for this sort of censorship.

Do you have a link for your Republican donation charge? If not it is baseless and not worth the pixels it uses to appear on my screen. Anyway, the way that reads, Kennedy paid them for services.

But what does it really matter? The Democrats are just as likely to censor the internet and it's content as the Republicans.

I think the applicable expression is, "politically convenient target"

lol okies, this is intriguing. I don't know what data she used, but I looked at opensecrets.org for 2006. Opensecrets counts all money flowing into a party's coffers as "donations", even if the payer was actually buying something (not just giving money).

Aristotle spent roughtly $1600 with the Democrats:
http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/expend.asp?txtName=a&Cmte=DPC&cycle=2006&sort=name

Aristotle purchased its yearly census data etc. from the Republican Party (!!!!! I'm sure they could buy this data nonpartisanly and probably cheaper direct from the government, but chose not to) for a total expenditure of over $163,000:
http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/expend.asp?txtName=a&Cmte=RPC&cycle=2006&sort=name

So yes, a factor of 100 difference.

Mark Kennedy is a private citizen who has run for office as a Republican, so you would expect his personal donations to go in that direction. But, even tho he's Aristotle's CEO, that's irrelevant. Tho it may have influenced the corporate decision of where to purchase data from.

Really? The democrats are the primary backers of net neutrality law, which one may question the actual effects of, but it is clearly INTENDED to preserve a level playing field for internet access.

Politics has more twists and turns than a snake. Politicians pay Aristotle to help them find voters to convert and not bother their followers. Aristotle take the earnings and put it into political campaigns or buy something at a nice price to send some moolah back.

I though Thai politics was corrupt. US has just taken it to a new level. Wonder how much Aristotle are going to get out of the Republican and Democratic parties this time around?

Being a SecondLife verified user are they more likely to vote Democrat or Republican?

Many people feel I am a total nutcase. So I back one who they say is on the fringe too. Ron Paul and the Reloveution. Go go go. Time for government of the people by the people. Not of the old guard for the old guard.

A sort of aside, but on the topic of the massive difference in avalability of personal information in the USA as opposed to Europe:

The Irish Electoral Rolls are known to be a mess.
The last census that was conducted here might strike people as an obvious way of getting the elector lists bang up to date.

Was one arm of government allowed to see the confidential data of another arm?
Nope! Illegal here. Data can not be 'repurposed'.

Is there any way that Aristotle can get their hands on any of the ID data that they flag *required* and therefore claim they can verify here?
Not a snowball's chance in Hell!