A difficult business question

I was recently in-world looking around at various places and I happened on a place that was selling "booby-traps" to install in a house. Things like trapdoors and dropping cages and that kind of thing. Seeing them made me think, because I made an object a bit like that a long while ago, but I didn't ever put it on sale, and I started thinking about why not. And the reason I worked out was.. because it would actually feel wrong - to me - to do so.

The thing is, by that time I had already learned - and I especially know now, that basically the whole reason to have a house on SL is to create a social environment. But given that, it feels to me that that kind of thing doesn't really have any space in creating a social environment. What would you do, drop your friends down there and laugh at them? That's hardly kind or sociable and would just mean people avoided you in the future. Such a thing wouldn't work on griefers, they could just escape or do other things to cause harm, so what is the actual point?

(I was especially aware of this - when I was very young and naive on SL I created the "magical mischief" group that supported a similar kind of thing, but of course it failed utterly because "mischief" however expressed is basically anti-social behavior, and of course anti-social behavior doesn't attract people)

So it seems to me that someone would buy it, install it in their house and then realise that, hey, they can't actually use it. And I wouldn't feel comfortable having taken money from someone for something that I could predict in advance was likely to result in that. And that even applies to other things. I still very much remember the thread posted here by a woman who bought a hot tub and then only afterwards realized that ".. so I'm just meant to sit in it?".

Now... here's the question... am I correct in feeling this way? Let me say right here, I'm _not_ judging anyone else by this standard, it's just that it would feel wrong to me for me to sell that kind of thing where the buyers will inevitably end up finding out it's an empty experience. But am I right in feeling that way or am I missing things or is it one of those "yes but the creator can't be blamed" situations?

I wouldn't sweat it.

While I don't see a personal need for such a thing. But in a role playing environment or similar venues it could be a nice feature to add to a build.

/whisper mode: contact me inworld.. I want one so I can invite some ladies to my place and have fun with them.

/whisper mode off.

I now return you to your normally scheduled forum...

"CX"

I have a strict policy of not selling things I make which could be used to grief other people. I've made physics orbiters, push orbiters, oribt torpedo breath weapons, grief animators, etc. Never have ever sold one; never intend to, either.

That said, there is some aesthetic value in what you are talking about. You CAN get positive use out of booby traps. Say I create a RP sim and make a dungeon for people to go adventuring in. Populating it with all sorts of deadly booby traps would seem a natural to me. Unlike most weapons, what you are talking about has value above and beyond its potential for abuse.

Your creation DOES have a value outside of an "empty experience", and I don't think anyone has or could have any claim against you for selling them. I don't think it is a moral issue, either. All you need to do to clear your moral conscience is to specifically disclaim any use to intentionally grief other people. Your stuff is for RP and/or entertainment value only; for both the owner and the so-called "victims".

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the use to "grief others". I'm talking about the use in terms of actual entertainment delivered. The items aren't socially stable. If you want to use any social item in SL, effectively the very first thing you need to check is that it's more appealing to others than what's available at the clubs. And I don't think this kind of thing would help..

Even in RP/entertainment it would be unlikely to work because if your idea of fun RP/entertainment is dropping other people down trapdoors, then they'll go and RP/be entertained by someone else next time. If you're building a dungeon for people to explore then.. well.. does anyone ever actually "explore" like that anymore? Many if there was an L$ prize at the end, but then, these scripted "traps" don't prevent flight out or anything similar..

It never bothered me that my Surprising Toilet™ did something surprising instead of its typical function. It's what makes SL fun.

Yes, and in an appropriate build, something like this, with an element of surprise could actually be fun.

I see it kind of like that campfire that actually sets people on fire if they walk through it. It's funny to a degree, and is a great gag. It's kind of like a fun house thing. It is appropriate in certain places and for certain uses. You shouldn't feel bad for selling something that is mostly for fun. It's a little juvenile, sure, but in the end it's good clean fun.

For the buyer (for whom it is not a surprise and who probably never sees the explorers)?

It might seem like a "great gag" but how long before all the targets start to refuse your TP offers?

I agree with you that it's not exactly the most social thing to have, but there is a market for it. There are the people who really get off on having all the crazy gadgets. I had a friend who got real into them and was always wanting to show me her new "toys", which meant I was going to be orbited, caged, crushed, trapped in a particle ball, deformed...you name it. She progressed and got one that would put prim skirts on me and wouldn't let me move or stick big boxes on my head. She got the biggest kick out of it and I let her play for awhile, my attempt at being nice. Patience eventually runs out and I got sick of not being able to go anywhere with her without wondering when I was gonna hit with a skirt trap. I told her I don't mind letting her test the gadgets out on me once in awhile, but not when we go out. She kept doing it. So...I'm sure she would love booby traps for her home, and you are right, basically people who do it just stand back and laugh.

Every once in awhile I get an IM from her asking how come I don't ever want to get together anymore..hmmm.

Oh yes... there are so many fun uses for these things. You can't close your mind to possibilities, other than that people MIGHT use these in their homes to trick people. That could be fun too... but at halloween time, I toured many haunted houses in SL--what a busload of fun! There were trap doors and killing devices. LOVED it!

I've seen items similiar to what you describe used to great effect in places like haunted houses. Places like that can be a lot of fun. I also met someone who used a trap door like that as an entrance to his own skybox. He landed on the roof and fell in (happened to match the theme of his skybox, I discovered after I was inside. ) I generally find myself wishing there were more scripted/interactive objects in SL rather than fewer of them.

Which is exactly what I'm saying - essentially she is now discovering that she wasted her money because unless you're doing something that's quite strongly socially appealing to others, they'll be lured away by music streams and danceballs and you'll be left alone with your toys. I would feel bad at having put her in that position, having taken her money for something that she couldn't use because it wasn't socially stable. I know there is a market and caveat emptor, but surely a market which really should not exist because none of the emptors would empt if they were fully aware of all the caveats isn't a good one..

Not too difficult a question.
If you want to sell what you create, just do so. The buyer knows what he/she is buying, and when they decide after a while they find it not useful after all, they had their fun. And lets face is, there is much useless stuff around

Myself i build and sell furniture, but anyone buying can have the same feeling: They're just supposed to sit in it. Yet they do buy it and are in general pleased with their purchase. Because they know what they bought. So go for it

Greetings Marcel

Last night we were playing with a toy at the hangout. When you bumped into someone your avi would fall on the floor and die. Several people myself included were killed by others bumping into us. It was so funny that I took snapshots.

"CX"

Why does it need to be a "gag"? A nicely done Halloween haunted house with trap doors and pitfalls to be explored as opposed to just TPing friends for a "gag".

Make it an entertainment venue to BE explored, like Greenies, for example.

Why does every build in SL have to be a mall or housing complex?

That's my fear though. The buyer might not know what he/she is buying, not because they don't know what the item is, but because they haven't grasped that SL is purely social and isn't an MMORPG. I mean, the ultimate case is that people will spend US$1695 (or US$1000, now) on setting up RP islands just because they think it'll let them be queen/king (I do not mean to imply this is the only reason anyone ever sets up an RP island, but at least some are set up for this reason, I mean, I have seen some where the "private palace" is 3/4 of the sim). Would they do so if they knew that such an attempt is doomed to fail out of the gate, because other people don't work that way?

Based on the rolling expenditure figures of SL it seems that, of the people who spend money in-world, a lot of them spend some money and then quit. So their money didn't get them the experience they wanted (otherwise they would have stayed), but if they knew that surely they wouldn't have spent the money? I know that technically "they knew what they were paying for and got it" but are they fully aware?

Do the buyers of the item know that in order to make use of it, they'll have to build (and pay monthly tier for) a substantial project; that it will only be of interest for maybe a few days in the year (Halloween), and that on those days, all the professional builders will have their Halloween houses out too; and that they themselves, the buyer, will gain very little as a result, because although once contacting the builder of an entertaining build was common, it doesn't seem to be any more?

Note to self: stay away from the home of CX

LOL your concerns are truley hilarious! Why do you care so much if people don't realize their SL dreams?

If I was looking to buy those particular items, I would probably have a particular type of build in mind. So, yes, I think someone looking for those items would either be planning a land purchase for that purpose or already have the land and is setting out to make their build.

I seriously doubt that Joe newbie is going to be shopping for those things unless he has been watching over a friend's shoulder and actually has a plan.

For me, I spend money buying land and setting it up just the way I want because that is the fun part of the process. When it comes to my home/personal land, I eventually sell and lower my tier for awhile until I get the itch to set it up all over again. This isn't because I was unhappy with the outcome, but because I enjoy the process of building, creating, and making something new. That is what is the most rewarding to me here (in addition to my friends ). Freedom to reinvent is a satisfying in itself.

Was just thinking the same thing. Much ado over nothing, imo.

Yumi,

People need to learn from experience. If they discover what you think they will, hopefully they'll learn something. If they don't, well...it's not really your worry.

Look, people building these things are gonna be looking for help you can provide. If you have something, put it on the market. You sound like you want everyone to take a class in SL economics before you'll sell them a damned novelty item.

I guess you could put disclaimer signs all over stating that whoopie cushions may not work, because there are a lot of newbies out there who don't know how to sit... or if you're buying this seltzer sprayer to surprize and entertain guests, please be aware that in SL, no one really gets wet, so please don't be disapointed by results.

OMG *laughing*