Stealing Designs?

I was shopping around this morning...

Everything looked very familiar at a certain store, exact same things from another store I shop at all the time. They didn't have all of their products, but alot. Same models in the pictures also. The name was changed on the picture and when you put your cursor over the picture it said the name of the store I was in.

I looked in the group for a owner and I don't see any visible. I would really like to let someone know so they can check it out.

I understand that some vendors have their stuff at different locations but it usually doesn't change their name on the product.

Any suggestions on what to do?

Could be selling under an Alts name? IM both owners anyway with eachothers names and store locations, and let them duke it out

I'd just give a heads-up IM to the creator of the original content you think has been ripped off, and then it's up to him/her as to what action to take should they believe as you do.

Maybe its from one of those business in a boxes where both sellers are just selling the same thing hundreds of others probably are as well.

Supposing it's true, several items are the same as another shop. Why would you want to get involved in something that's not affecting you nor does it have anything to do with you?

Umm, let me guess ... could it be because she has a conscious, has concern for others, and wants to do the right thing?

It may be hard for some to believe but some people have a good heart and actually care for others, and would do for others as they would like others to do for them.

Among other things, it basically boils down to consideration for others. We need more people like MishelleAnne in this world. And even if no one else expresses appreciation, please know that at least you have one person that does.

Thank you.

Thank you from me, too.

Content theft affects everyone in the long run whether they are the seller or the buyer. I'm sure if you worked your ass off and made things only to have them stolen and sold by someone who didn't put in any effort in creating them, you would be upset too. I've seen and reported many thieves in my time in SL and I have seen my favorite creators make less and less or have stopped all together because of thieves. I certainly hope more people think like the OP and myself instead of people like you who don't care.

LOL!

You hurt my feelings. I do care.




I only make items for my land when needed, not to sell. But If I did and someone copied it, to be honest, I wouldn't care. Why? Because it's not like anyone here, myself included, who makes anything is making it for the very first time ever. It's all been made before. Basically, you'll find the same stuff in every shop of the same type items.

I doubt very much anyone has or will stop making items simply because someone also made the same thing. If that was the case there would hardly be anyone left making stuff.

Taking it upon oneself and I'm talking in general, taking upon oneself to get involved in things that are no concern of yours is doing just that. If it's not involving you then it's no concern of yours regardless what you may think you're accomplishing or whatever you're reasoning may be.

There's more important things to worry about then trying to save the world especially over trivial things such as this. It's more important to worry about ones self then to go around worrying about what your neighbor is doing or not doing. Just like certain people here who by their own admissions go out of their way just to see what others are doing just so they can AR them. Can you believe this? Can you respect people like this?

Many words come to mind when you think of these indiviuals and none of them nice. In my current line of work they put priority in getting to meet indiviuals like this and rightly so. And if they do, it's usually not pretty. Well deserved too.

Kind of hypocritical of you to bother posting, just to tell someone they shouldn't be sticking their nose in something that isn't their business.. or do you just hold others to this rule and not yourself?


That being said, cut prims textured with freebie or purchased textures.. sure, not so original. On the other side of that, though, there's plenty of sculpties, artwork (especially skins, etc) that is someone's RL work they've imported into Second Life. These works are often copyrighted or protected in some other way. They deserve to know if someone is infringing on their rights.

To be honest, I don't believe that any of this is actually IP or copyright theft.

I think too much has been made in SL of the ability to protect "copyright" and "IP".

When I walk around SL, I see a lot of beautiful digital craftmanship, I see very little original design.

I appreciate that migrating an idea or design from RL to SL takes a lot of time and commitment however, unfair as it may be, hard work and effort is not a measure of originality.

All I can say is (and to paraphrase Alan Sugar) in my role as owner of a small software business I've written books on copyright and IP law... cheque books

lol.. ok that's overstating it a wee bit, but I've spent a fair bit of money and to be honest don't feel any more secure from piracy or IP theft than I did before.

It's just not simple to identify what can and can't be protected because it's not simple to identify where the originality is in any design or piece of work.

Also to be honest, most of what I see in SL are digitized versions of designs and ideas which are actually copyright and IP theft from RL designers.

As an example, taking an image or idea from your favourite RL shirt, digitizing it and uploading a virtual version into SL might be hard work, but doesn't entitle you to any protection. In fact it might be said that you, yourself are guilty of some infringement.

I'm not against protection of ideas and original creativity, as I've tried to show.. I've been frustrated in RL by the law as it stands at present.. particularly in the digital media and software arenas.

Finally I'd like to draw a distinction between protection of creativity and trademarks/brands.

I've seen many copies of Nike trainers passed off as original design in SL, however what you don't see much of is the Nike logo.

So perhaps the best idea is to build a brand which is distinctive and original, this is more easily protected and in all honesty a creative exercise in itself.

At the end of the day we'd probably all sleep better in our beds if we took Coco Chanel's view that imitation reflects the highest form of flattery..

Maybe some people do put their nose in everyones business, but consider yourself if you were selling content for a living, would you sell it all full perm and not care when someone starts reselling the copies?

But the theft the OP was talking about *wasn't* imitation (as in trying to make a copy), it was *actual* theft, like someone stole a lorry-load of Chanel suits and was passing them off as if they made them themselves.

And this is what most SL creators have done. That is why the OP was able to identify the content - it was obvious (by the style or content) who the creator was.

You are missing the point. It is *not* easy to protect graphical content in SL when people just rip it off. I know it's similar on the internet (re ripping graphics) but I'm not so aware of people passing it off *as their own* and making money on stolen content on the internet. In SL they are causing a lot of the talented creators to lose heart and stop making any new stuff, which ultimately harms the SL economy and probably the longevity and attractiveness (as a business medium) of SL as a platform.

All I can say to you, Ricardo, is that you have obviously never been shopping with a woman... One pair of black shoes is not the same as the next pair of black shoes, one white shirt is radically different to the next white shirt. And they will pay for quality, fit, detail and originality. Which we will lose in SL if the good creators stop making stuff because of IP theft...

Hi Valentino,

I'm not sure that whatever this situation is, it can be classed as physical theft.

For one thing, there is no marginal cost to the original vendor after the initial model is uploaded. These are not physical objects and as such even if the second vendor simply used copy/paste the original "creator" has actually lost nothing.

Obviously there is a potential loss in revenue, but to be honest every designer and creator has this to deal with. The time that an originator has in order to make money from a creation before competitors enter the market with replicas is called the "window of appropriability" if I remember my business courses correctly.

In RL this time window is sometimes protected by Patent or Copyright for a certain period of time ( not indefinitely), guaranteeing a ROI for people who finance original research and development/design.. in SL I guess the time period is shorter.

Finally I disagree that there are is wide spread branding in SL. If for instance the originator of the products in question had developed her brand successfully, this "me too" vendor would have little impact on her business. The brand would add sufficient "value" to the product that even a reduced price would be insufficient to lure purchasers away.

If the brand existed as a recognisable brand, simply the presence of a logo would ensure differentiation and hence negate the competition.

Hmmm. Although DMCA is relatively easily applied to images compared to other content, I certainly object to the notion that there's more originality in a skin or a sculptie than in a well-designed prim assembly--*especially* if that skin or sculptie is based on an RL product. Neither facility with external tools nor effort spent in their manipulation count a whit in my assessment of originality. That's not to imply that IP law shouldn't apply to such things as a kind of protective tariff that encourages their continued manufacture. But importing yet another bit of RL with an incremental advance in how perfectly it mimics reality isn't innovation in a way I can recognize as "original."

To the topic: Unfortunately, without specifics, it's very hard to guess what's going on here. It could well be that you're looking at two different copiers of somebody else's content, and the content creator may have allowed others to re-box it and sell it under their own names. Or it may be one of the ones you saw copied the other. I'd probably create a notecard with the particulars of what you found and send it to both, and see who replies.

Slightly off the original topic but related overall...

The other day I was at a builders shop. He had all his building designes laid out and I was walking around admiring them. I saw one that had another one next too it that appared to be a copy done by someone else. There was a note giving out the avatars name that copied it encouraging people to contact that person about copying other people's items.

Upon further inspection it appeared to me like it wasn't so much the work of a copybot but what looked like a complete re-build based on the original design. (i.e. the second builder created it from scratch using their own methods but ended up with a near perfect clone)

I have seen people do this in SL copying RL designs as well. (some even boasting about that fact)

I started wondering... is this really theft, or is it a case of just not being original enough to come up with ones own design. I'm not saying its how it happened, but would there be any difference in someone creating a SL item based on a RL item they didn't design, or a SL person doing the same to another SL design?

I'm all for protecting people who spend their time to come up with something to sell in SL. I don't know that I would go so far as to persecuting someone as a thief if shady copybot methods weren't used though. Hmmm....

Okay, fair point.

Interesting. I didn't do a business course (maybe I should've but this makes sense.

In which case, as I think has been mentioned in other threads, I guess the best way to counteract the content theft is by continuing to release new and better product, and to ensure that you are doing the best you can to create a 'brand' and a good shopping experience that will bring people back to *your* store.

Item names can be changed when stolen in many cases,

And it is real hard to look at the label on a virtual piece of clothing.

If you knew that a burglar was going to rob your neighbor would you warn your neighbor,

Or just allow him to be robbed?


----

I think you oversimplify your "stool pigeon" argument so that you can call people nosy.

Well, you can, kind of. Even before buying, you can look at the contents of the for-sale prim to see the items inside and then right-click them and choose Properties to see who (claims to be) the creator. For prim items, of course, they can all be made by a Linden if you want the ultimate designer label. I guess with texture clothing that was sold modifiable, one could completely replace the texture and sell perfect crap with the best designer's "label"--kinda like all those Louis Vuitton bags in Chinatown. Can't say as I've ever seen this particular scam in-world, though, in contrast to the scam of copying a designer's actual product under a bogus "creator" label.

(Note that the ability to "see inside" a sales display requires that it not be a networked vendor, which are the bane of my SL existence anyway, as customer, scripter, and would-be merchant: too many moving parts, too many ways for the transaction to fail, too many unhappy customers.)

The thief is sometimes better at marketing than the creator, and so can assert that it was his or her design by virtue of being well known.

Important to remember that many attend classes learning to build, For example some 2,5 years ago I taught building a wishing well at what was then Teazer's. I have seen mayn give that class since and I originally took the class from another lol.

So, over the two years maybe another 4-5000 avi's learn to build that same wishing well.
Combine that with every class for every item and its not hard to understand why so many things appear to be the same.

If I made a cloak that none has made before and start selling a lot of them there will be copycats (I actually did exactly that) and cloaks were found everywhere in short order
.
I have a thought and will start a new thread on it, but there is a lot of original things being created just have to hunt harder thru all the samness to find them .

I have seen a lot of similar things on sell.
I think what happens is either people design similar things that they think people will buy.
Issue is most don't want to think of unique things to design or they find things they like and think gee I could do something similar.
Lot of beginning artist study Old Master's artwork in process of learning. I know I do the same I often study something that has good design, be it a chair I see in photo and see if I can reproduce this chair in SL.
I do this for the challenge not to sale it.
I think though there is lot of copying that happens here and also in first life media.
Whether or not its movies, music,etc. it seems like their is very few trying to use their imagination for something new, its always easier to copy something that is already been marketed and sales well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in SL who shops and sees an item for sale that I like but instead of buying the item get an idea for something that I can do for myself. I have done this many times and on a few occassions actually come up with clothing outfits that are darn near duplicates of the clothing I saw for sale. I did not copy a thing unless you call getting "inspired" copying. I make all the textures offline using GIMP from scratch, used Chip Midnight's clothing templates I "created" the top, bottoms, jackets, etc., and uploaded them to apply them to clothing items in the appearance feature within SL. But, now my question is would I be accused of theft by doing that? According to some posting here I guess I would........and that sucks.

By the way, I almost always give full permissions on any item I make so I can give to anyone I feel like giving to.........and they, in turn, can do the same (which I verbally request that they do just that). So, there is a chance (though, I doubt it) that something the OP has seen has been "created" by me (or someone like me) who actually legally created and gave the item in question to the person who's selling it.......directly or indirectly.

I would hope any suspicions of theft be investigated before any accusasations are made. Dispite what so many here think, there are many in SL who really do make stuff for fun and not profit. I know quite a few since I tend to hang with like thinking people in this game. By all that "caring" about individual rights for "creators" and thinking you are doing the "right thing" you may actually be harming people like me.......causing us grief by false accusations. Do your research first. You could find you are mistaken..........and more than you might think too.

/me rubs salve on his wounds