Abuse and Misuse of IMs for group messages and event SPAM

I was "ejected" from a group last evening SOLELY for complaining that the greoup head/sim owner was using the IM channel to send out group event notices on her sim, instead of using the regular Announcements mechanism. Since there is no "mute" or "ignore" equivalent in the IM tool, sending out party notices and such is SPAM.

Told she was spamming the group members, and ought to be using the Announcements tool, she immediately ejected me from the group - - a relief!! -- but she also banned me from her otherwise fairly good sim. Again, her ban was SOLELY becuase I dared to tell her *privately* she was spamming. LOL! She really should have banned herself, since she is the one disrupting the in-world life of her group members unecessarily with un-solicited IMs.

I have of course reported her for abuse, since banning is meant for people who cause disruptions or bother others in a sim, NOT for good SL citizens who simply want to help preserve an acceptable quality level in the user experience. Being a paying member I also am submitting a trouble ticket to the Lindens, since under the TOS she has no right to use "ban" in this manner.

My assumption is that she doesn't understand how ordinary people resent unsolicited notices in SL just as much as they hate them in email or other online chat sites. For ignorant sim owners, or those who refuse to see a problem in abusing the SL platform for their own commercial purposes, the Lindens need to amend the TOS to "ban" the use of IMs for commercial and event SPAM.

Wishing to give this arrogant sim owner the opportunity to correct her approach to generating traffic for her sim, I am choosing not to publish her sim's name here for now.

What do you think? Should the Lindens act now to ensure that the IM tool be used for personal, private, one-to-one communications?

My opinion: Her group, her rules.

QFT

The group notice mechanism is not working properly at this time so sending messages via group IM is used as a backup. Many times, not all group members actually recieve the group notice.

Also, some groups are used as conversation tools and, if it is the group owner that is using it that way then that is his/her choice. Don't like it, leave the group. But to tell the group owner that she is spamming her own group? Yeah, I'd ban you too.

So basically you're saying you want LL to make it against TOS for using the group chat function to relay info pertaining to that group?

Where does it say in the TOS that a landowner can't ban anybody they want?

If you have joined a group, you have solicited communication over that group's available channels. The fact that you were annoyed by a group IM doesn't make it "unsolicited."

Group notices are great but they are not always the appropriate tool to use. For example, as noted above, group notices don't always work. Moreover, when an announcement is time sensitive and really only of interest to people logged in at that moment, a group IM may be preferable to, and less intrusive than, a group notice.

/me shakes head ... I've heard a lot of over-sensitive complaints on this board, but complaining about a group owner using the group IM channel to announce group-related events probably takes the cake.

I am curious what you think group IMs are for, if you are so offended by a group owner using them to make announcements to the members of the group.

if I recieve unwanted spam in a group I simply leave the group. Problem solved.

Ya know Katya, I totally agree with you. I get really annoyed when an IM pops up for one of my groups and people proceed to have an entire conversation. It is frustrating when I am trying to have another IM.
I agree that the group notices are the better way to go, but I find those a little annoying. LOL I have left several groups just because they send out WAY too many notices. BUT, I have to say that I think a lot of people like it. If I were really involved in a group, had lots of friends inside that group, I would probably welcome the messages. I have found that there are a lot of people that have one hang out - just like RL.
I guess I do too..but it is someone and not somewhere - and I like to spend my free time IW exploring.

If there is an entire conversation going on in a group IM that you are not interested in, you can make it go away simply by closing down that group's tab in the Communications window.

But that is not what the OP's complaint is - her complaint is that the group owner used the group IM channel to announce a group event. She didn't say anything about ongoing conversations in the group IM channel.

Under the TOS, Landowners have every right to ban you from the spaces that they own, for whatever reason they wish, no matter how trivial or frivolous - even if its for having a 'K' in your name. Linden will not assist you in finding a remedy to this sort of situation.

That said, (good) buisness owners have an interest in keeping their customers happy by being reasonable about their ban policies, because it can affect their bottom line.

Ditto. I would have ejected you as well.


Spam is unsolicited messages. I imagine you joined the group on your own free will,so can't see how that is classified as spam.

I think you should read your post again tomorrow after a good night's sleep, so that you'll see how wrong it is.

Thanks to all for your responses, even those who summarily reject my admittedly pro-consumerist type views.

To clarify:

My post was addressing the use of the IM channel specifically for event notices and similar traffic-generating or commercial SPAM, NOT for group chat.

IMO, this use of IM cheapens the user experience. Since it is in the Lindens' and the community's interest to encourage members to join groups and hence "personalize" their experience, just imagine what your IM box will become once you belong to 25 groups and these groups feel the need to SPAM via the IM channel!

Those who say "you joined the group, therefore you 'asked' to be SPAMMed" are overlooking the Announcements channel for group notices. My guess is that if it was made *clear* to SLers that group operators can spam their IM in-box as well as send out Announcements, many would not join. This will thus ultimately undermine the group, so is at best a short-sighted practice by the group operators who use IMs for spamming.

I feel therefore that the Lindens need to provide "acceptable use" type guidance to SPAMing group operators.

As to banning, indeed, the TOS does NOT provide guidance on the circumstances under which a ban is warranted. That is why I raised the question of a need, again, for guidance of sim operators. Just to be crystal clear, I totally understand the point of view of those who feel that a sim is their territory, and they can ban anyone they wish. That is cool for private sims, of course.

But my post and the situation which inspired it addresses the *commercial* sim operators, like the one who arrogantly banned my avatar without due cause. If the Lindens do not provide some sort of "fair use and access" guidance for these types of sim owners, then, IMO, the quality of experience will be eroded. Like others here with a vital commercial interest in the continuing growth and ultimate success of Second Life, I find this lack of simple consideration for *non*-disruptive members to be of concern.

Some can say I am nit-picking, or advise to just "get over it and move on". But I am a rl businessperson, 150% engaged in web-based commercial activities. For ten years, we have innovated then practiced "double-opt-in" and "permission-based" communications, and we know from our and others' experince that users really appreciate being treated fairly.

I could care less about this particular inconsiderate and arbitrary person and her sim; but I care very much about SL emerging as a much larger community with great tools and user support, a community where those who sign-up will return often, and bring their friends, too.

I think you should have a good night's sleep, and now read *both* of your posts tomorrow, to see how wrong they are

Listen to the people in this thread - they know what they are talking about.

Btw, your RL experience has no relevance in this matter - none at all.

"But-But-But.... I wanna have all 25 groups so I can complain about the upper limit! (T_T)" .... (^_^)

Surely you jest.

Oh I get it now... this thread is a joke,right???

While I doubt the sim owner did anything against the ToS, the move to eject and ban you is childish powertripping at best, totalitarian at worst.

Had you IMed me with a complaint about spam I would have suggested that you either suck it up or leave the group and end it there.

I would have ejected and banned you only if you were then using group chat or other means to whine publicly about the owner and her use of her group. Maybe that possibility worried her?

We get it all the time in the NCI group. We openly trade advice and information, announce events, offer SLURLs, request land officer help, even some idle chit-chat ... stuff like that. It's an active group, one of my favorites. But there just has to be ONE person who gets in the middle and says "Quit spamming me with IMs!". We usually respond with the advice of closing the tab. True spammers get ejected quite quickly and sometimes land-bans are connected to group ejects because we're dealing with repeat offenders. (=_=)

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Boring, redundant, spammy group chat = Boring, redundant, spammy group. You're not forced to stay in it. There are more than enough other nice groups out there. Make room and join those. If you want your own group to follow your own rules, make one. Just be sure you have enough common friends to support it. (^_^)y

You didn’t ask to be spammed. You gave implicit consent to receive group related messages (of any nature). Also, you are overlooking the fact that a group owner can run the group in any way they see fit.



Frankly, it doesn’t need to be made clear; it should be obvious.




Linden Lab™ may want to provide “best practices” for running a group, but these should not ever be in the TOS.





Linden Lab™ may want to provide “best practices” for bans, or more generally, dealing with griefers, but again these should not ever be in the TOS. And BTW, it’s cool for all land – private sim and mainland.



You can be banned from anyone’s land for any reason or no reason whatsoever and that’s the way it should be. As far as arrogance goes, I see some pot-kettle-black going on here.

--Hugsy

my understanding of groups is exactly that, to send out im's pertaining to that group, be it commerical or events or whatever....

not sure what you thought the group was for exactly.

*shrug*

/me rolls her eyes...



QFT... Again

It is is easy to repeatedly say my arguments are wrong, especially when not providing the reasons why. Actually, Phil, I *am* listening to the people posting serious replies here. Would love to see your reasoning, instead of simply patronizing my sincere efforts to raise a serious set of issues.

As to my (or anyone else's) RL experience having zero relevance here, that is absurd. The Lindens set this site up as a business. If they allow the *commercial* sims to operate like a children's playpen, it undermines their business prospects. That. in turn, ultimately hurts the community, which will simply disappear if there is no viable long-term economic model, including sound business and communications practices. Excuse my "irrelevant" real world experience talking, but the only alternative economic model to a commerically-supported one is where all the users pay for access, which the vast majority of folks clearly would not accept. In this all-too-real world of the SL *business*, unsolicited SPAM is bad for everyone except, in the short term, the SPAMer. If that view is "wrong", or "not relevant", then have the professional courtesy to say why, or on what grounds, please.

nope. don't like it? quit her group and stay off her land.

Last night my friend and I were looking around when I was suddenly BOMBARDED with chat (general and not directed at me). A group for newcomers I recently joined (people tell me they have a lot of resources) apparently was the cause. I have NO idea what that was about, and it was certainly not welcome at the time. I didnt join a chatroom I just joined the group two days earlier.

What happened?