OTHER Virtual Worlds

Multiverse I think only uses the term "game" because it's an effective marketing buzzword. Gamers are a big market, and they like to think they would be able to build their own MMORPGs, even though it isn't true (they require a huge development team). SL does similar with the claim that you can do, or create, anything you want on SL, so it's just a common marketing strategy.

Multiverse is more of a competitor for the corporate "event worlds" than for the social world of SL, but there is nothing stopping someone creating a social world in SL. I have the feeling, although I have no evidence for this, that SL would not be commercially viable if it became essentially a graphical talker.

It would be a competitor if it didn't suck. I think SL is currently better for event worlds than Multiverse, as it has tens of thousands online at any one time, more people to pull from.

Once Multiverse gets to that level of concurrency, I'd believe they'd be a competitor. At this current juncture, no... and I don't see it happening very soon, either.

That might or might not be valuable though. Take for example the CSI event in SL - that isn't aimed at existing Second Life users at all, and doesn't use 90% of the Second Life standards. That would have been a perfect candidate for Multiverse, except that LL have done a good job of making Second Life's _name_ known to the public, so it was more attractive to the producers for that reason (and also the fact that Multiverse doesn't really have any MDCs yet). I doubt it was because of the existing userbase. If you're going to bring 2 million people in for your event what does it matter about the 10,000 already there?

See, the diff between SL and Multiverse, is that it's actually *easy* to sign up and get an account and going on SL, with Mac, Windows or Linux. SL installation is relatively painless, about as difficult as installing a browser. The method to getting your avatar set up and running in SL is the easiest anywhere, pretty much - at least for now. Plus its portable anywhere in the SL universe. No starting over when going to a new place in the world.

This is not going to change as the Grid scales to the new architecture. The idea is that your avatar and assets will be portable with you, to wherever you go in the Second Life Grid.

Multiverse is not slick at all, and doesn't work on anything but Windoze. (try installing Multiverse, its an enormous pain in the butt that fracked my DirectX10 by replacing it with version 9 grumble grumble) It doesn't have a large currently installed base to prove that it's got that ease of use. And after all that installation pain in the butt, it wouldn't even run right on Vista. Only does my XP system. Of course I've put my DirectX 10 back on, so Multiverse isn't running right anymore

Not true man. OpenGl and DirectX are two different rendering engines. Completely. Alpha-sorting isn't an issue with DirectX.

Why don't you think giving someone more technology to back their projects isn't giving them more freedom? It's like movies...the majority of talented movie-makers nowa'days, are much more free to create the world they imagine...it's because of advanced technology--this applies directly to all aspects of digital creation, Second Life included.

Let's not get technical and jump into the 'good games aren't based on graphics' argument...I understand that. The key world I'm using is 'freedom.' And the perfect example is the OpenGL alpha problem with Second Life--I don't have the freedom to build how I want...I have to design around alpha-sorting...

Allowing someone the ability to create more subtle and advanced textures, lighting, models...all that gives the creator more 'freedom' to let their imagination run wild without the fear of being inhibited.

lol...lol...

lol...

That, as you noticed, made me laugh. Why am I a liar? Because I read-up on a product, and told you what I gathered from it...don't you think that's a little harsh to be calling me a 'liar?'

It's not a fully functioning would YET. I never said it was. MY point was, the implications are open-source...someone (anyone) is free to create that Multiverse fully-functioning SL rip-off...it's totally feasible.

Liar liar pants on fire...man, you crack me up. What are you 12? And what is this about me bing paid to advertise...lol. Where in the world do you come up with that? If I say I like M&Ms here on the board, are you going to say I work for Hersheys?

This is true, but not an argument for Multiverse over SL. You can minimise alpha sorting issues, the trouble is most people don't bother to, or know how. It's an issue with every engine that uses OpenGL.



Well... your choice is: DirectX and Windows only, or OpenGL and have Linux and Macintosh, too. If you're trying to market to as many platforms as possible, then you see why they went with OpenGL. As long as MS doesn't want to play nice with others, we're all kind of stuck with it.

But I'm happy to mess with DirectX game engines - I just know better than to think they'll be a replacement for OpenGL till MS gets its collective head out of its butt and starts being nicer with other platforms

You talk alot about the apparent "Freedom" Multiverse affords. What concerns, if any, do you have about the fact that DirectX is only available on Windows platforms, and the very latest Direct3D and other crucial APIs, only available for Vista? This isn't a Multiverse. This is a Windowsverse. So much for cross platform interoperability - a MUST for tomorrow's virtual worlds.

Ya! Get it straight!

Do you have any idea of expensive it is to license 'Cryengine?' Especially with Crisis coming out? Way more than we can afford. That thing is the diva engine right now...we can't touch that with a ten-foot pole. Those engines aren't an option for the average consumer.

But the average consumer can use Max, Maya, Blender, whatever to create their own builds in Multiverse for free. It doesn't have to be a FPS or an MMOG...the user has the freedom to create anything they want...and if they form a team...they can even make a functioning pseudo-society like SL...

Let's not be too harsh on Multiverse yet...it's brand spankin new...it's not like SL didn't (and doesn't) have major bugs.

Hater.

Hypatia...just give it time. Jeez Louize. You're comparing a baby to a wrinkly old man...let Multiverse age a little.

And yes...it's geared a little more towards a key group...and the hard core...but let me tell you something, this could be a good thing...a really good thing. Put a bunch of hardcore designers and programmers together...and that's where the magic happens.

Multiverse is completely scalable and open-source. If they continue to tweak and expand, the sky's the limit.

OK...but I have no doubt if it's a solid product, there are MORE than enough Windows users to create a bustling world...one more advanced that SL.

That was my first impression as well - more of a gamers type world.

Think I'll stay in the SL community.

As long as usability and cross platform compatibility are not there, it's not a competitor to SL. Heck, it doesn't even run on VISTA. It's also not next gen. It's old, just in its very own way Old tech, and not even out of the starting gate

Nah, I'll be happy to be a hater and play with real next gen game engines, like Unreal or Crysis. Heck even Torque Game Engine Advanced is better, platform wise.

As long as it doesn't install well on enough systems to make your game pay, you're using the wrong engine. Not to mention it was slow on my hardware, and my hardware isn't old.

http://www.garagegames.com/developer/torque/tse/

There's a game engine with an affordable price and next gen compatibility. And if you want to appeal to Mac and Linux users, they have a step down from it -

http://www.garagegames.com/developer/torque/tge/

And the dev community is experienced and active Making games, use a game engine Torque is really one of the very good ones at a reasonable cost.

Direct X has alpha-sorting issues as well, it sounds to me though like Multiverse is focused on static builds, which means that it can reliably do processing on alpha textures to ensure that they are rendered correctly. This is something that could be costly to do in SL since any prim can move at any time with no reliable way of telling when and where it will move to. Non-physical prims without scripts (or being part of a linked-set with scripts) could I suppose be processed in this way, as the only times they will update is when a user moves them, but it's still not a very easy thing to do in a dynamic world.

If you look very closely at things like explosions or sprite-based grass in Direct X, then it is possible to see the same sorting issues if they are made up of multiple layers, or near an indestructible window or similar. But most Direct X games as I say are all pre-rendered and carefully designed, so it's often difficult to tell, especially if they're using things like different blending modes to do the explosions (something SL could admittedly do with, particles are horrible).

Strange. I've worked on several indie-game-titles, on DX, and never had alpha-sorting issues. But on OpenGl...it's always there. Hmmm. I must be using a different DX than you.

I know that DirectX is better with alpha than OpenGL - but what you say is true even for OpenGL. OpenGL games don't have alpha sorting issues either if they are made in a traditional manner (premade like Ragu - it's all in there, and designed carefully around the issues to minimise them)

SL is a streaming active world, where it can dynamically change from one second to the next because the users form the world itself, it is very different than Multiverse, or any other game engine out there. It is more like a 3d web in that aspect, it's sent to you to load on demand, as you hit the sim and download everything in your field of view. Whereas in traditional games, the art resides on your hard drive, already made, nothing new for a user to create. Want something new, you have to download/make a patch/mod for it. Your interaction with traditional games is passive, even if you think you're doing something.

I'm still waiting to see the next streaming 3d world that will be SL's competitor. There's not one, yet. I'm certain it may one day come, just not sure, when. It's not Multiverse, that is for sure.

YUP! Built-In Editors are one main reason I'll pick up a game.

I suppose my knowledge of Direct X particulars is getting dated; the last time I really programmed anything using Direct X was the SL Clothes Previewer, and it's not like I was paying much attention to the sorting of alpha polygons. Do you have a link to information that explains how the latest versions of Direct X improve the drawing of alpha transparency?