SL DJ's, Music Royalties, and the RIAA

You should be golden then I thought about doing the X5000 package but my station is too niche to bother.

yikes, how much does that set u back?

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This question and the link above go back to another question I asked about Linden Dollars, money, and fungible value.

Lindens lawyer has kindly provided an "as is" opinion. Clearly all should seek their own advice on this point but the core point can perhaps be summed up as......

Linden dollars have fungible monatary value

Linden Labs cannot offer any guarentee of that preservation.

Therefore I think that any downloads/uploads of music and/or copywrite material should be treated with care, and I think that it is fair to say the lience debates following on from my post have merit

Just a personal opinion, hope this helps

Regards

John

About $250.00 USD per month all inclusive.

Come back and tell us this the first time your creative work, which you base your livelihood on, gets stolen and used without your permission.

IP theft is just as real as when someone breaks in to your car and steals your radio. While IP isn't tangible - you can't hold it in your hand - it's still something that took time, effort, and often more than a few tears to produce.

I'm a computer programmer, a musician, and sometimes a writer and artist. Everything I own, eat, and live in comes from money that people have given me for things that come out of my brain. If that money stopped coming in because people simply stole my products, instead of paying me for my work, I'd be homeless and starving.

It's easy to say "that band has millions of dollars... why do they need me to pay for this song?", but consider the fact that most musicians are either just barely making it off of their music or not making it at all. Yes, P2P networks give us access to stuff that simply can't be found on the store shelf, and I think that the "abandonware" issue needs to be addressed by copyright holders and copyright law. But for current, in-demand music, we all need to do our share and at least buy it legally.

Well said! Even those bands that have been long established don't get good record deals at all. I have no idea why folks think Rock Stars are mega-rich. Writing/Publishing royalties are no where near mega-bucks at all. Most money is made in merchandise and touring. P2P of non-royalty generating sharing is just wrong folks.

My liveliyhood comes from my programs too, I mainly write manufacturing automation type things, and we get screwed over all the time because people are always trying to jury rig our stuff to work on machines that it wasn't made for (because they dont want to pay us for a program), and then they try to harass us because thier stuff doesn't work, blaming their failures on their stolen program that wasn't even designed for what they are trying to do with it.

I dont beleive that this unlicensed streaming is that simple, I am not sure I agree that it is theft, I personally beleive that it qualifies as "fair use" to play your tunes for a small group of people at a dinky little gathering, and nearly all your sl gatherins are dinky little things because you can only fit like 80 people in one place and most of the time you are lucky to get 40. It would be like trying to charge royalties for a party in your mom's basement with a few friends, rediculous! Still I wouldnt risk streaming without the royalties myself, I just don't feel as if I am outside of my rights as a legal owner of a tune, to play it in the company of a few friends.

Say what you will about p2p though, any time a song gets played anywhere, people are more likely to buy it. I tend to use it as a crap filter. I DL everything that I hear about and buy the good stuff out of those after I listen. I don't play crap for my friends, hence, all the illegal tunes get weeded out and nobody gets hurt. I'm not about to call the cops every time I hear somebody play one of those mp3s that obviously sounds like a crappy limewire download, or announces a tune incorrectly(which almost always means they downloaded a mislabel). It isn't about me thinking they have plenty of money, no idea where you got that idea from. I just disagree that p2p is theft, it looks more like free promotion to me, and lots of experts agree that it doesn't hurt sales as much as one is led to beleive. Personally, it has caused my to buy more music than I had before, because I can now more easily find things that I consider worth buying.

Actually, as I understand it, "fair use" does not deal to streaming media, you are broadcasting it and it falls under the real of it being broadcasting (once again I'm not the legal expert here). You may be the legal owner of a tune, and yes you can play it in the company of your friends in the real life vicinity you are in, but when you deal with online, your not just in that vicinity but broadcasting it across the world, where ever.



Granted, this was the original argument for P2P, but legally, in the US, P2P got SHUT DOWN. Essentially if you use P2P to download a copyrighted song (read as RIAA related song) - you can get fined, sued, placed in a legal mess. P2P with copyrighted music is ILLEGAL, period (not my personal stance, but the stance of how things are laid out)... it's not an avenue I would tread down - especially when DJing a live show.

true true,

as i said, they are my opinions, I wouldnt take risks just because I dont agree with the RIAA

RIAA can kiss my arse, (you too Lars) mosta the stuff I like is either undergound or foreign and those imported cd's ain't cheap... RIAA says p2p hurts CD sales. That's B.S.! People will -always- buy cd's because 1) Sound quality, 2) Package Content [lyric/art book, bonus concert dvd's etc]. P2P gives folks exposure to bands and artist they otherwise woulda never even heard of. Hot Topic also sells Mindless Self Indulgence, Dir en Grey and VNV Nation cd's. Ya think they'd be selling those items if nobody had downloaded the mp3's? [more particulary, if a certain fox *coughMEcough* hadn't emailed the crap outta H.T.'s idea box]

http://www.last.fm/group/Dir%2Ben%2Bgrey/forum/917/_/101438/3

*growls* I REALLY hate you, now that I can no longer just File Transfer or GMAIL my favorite J-rock and J-pop music to the Second Life DJ's. Are you sure you didn't deliberately -GO- to RIAA and tell them "OMG! they're playing copyrighted music!" Cuz other wise they never would have known or cared.

Has anyone encountered a problem as of yet with the RIAA, if not what is the reasoning behind all the paranoia, not that I mean to ridicule anyone but I was just wondering if it really is that big of a deal? (I'm sure if their were blood, the sharks would be swimming, so to speak) and although SL is growing at a fast clip I haven't seen the need or heard of such case's regarding DJ's and streaming music on their land being targeted by corporate goons. Regardless it's nice to see how we work together to avoid scenerio's we would ultimately regret getting into, for the mere purpose of listening to music.

Well folks, with the new Internet Radio rulings and the RIAA trying to clamp down on ALL music streaming, it's only a matter of time before they make it into SL and start contacting everyone who's either streaming an internet station here or streaming their personal MP3's as DJ's. I run an internet station and it has been HELL these past few months, wondering whether or not we're going to even survive past this summer with all the money Soundexchange is asking internet stations to pay. Thankfully, Congress is now involved and things are looking a bit better, but I'd stay on top of this issue if I were you - would hate to be caught unaware and asked to fork over thousands of dollars just because we're playing music here in SL... it's going to happen eventually.

You can find more details on all the issues in the Radio & Internet newsletter at kurthanson.com... I check this constantly - better to be safe than sorry.

oh piss on em. goes for you do-gooders too.
carry on.

Something I find interestingly absent from this discussion is that there isn't actually any streaming of music through Second Life. The audio player is embedded in the viewer, which connects directly to the 3rd party site where the actual streaming occurs. Of course, we do have the media URL for the stream on the land parcel settings, but the act of broadcasting the material occurs entirely outside of the Second Life grid.

This isn't to say that RIAA won't eventually figure ways to go after unlicensed DJs, many of whom make a handsome profit while broadcasting illegally, but because Second Life is not the mechanism by which the material is broadcast, I suspect it will be more difficult to compel Linden Lab to release personal details about suspected avatars.

Question: How do these new rules affect people streaming from outside of the US?

Really depends on the country, you'd have to look it up... some countries respect international copyright on foreign works, some do not, and some have varying degrees.

Short answer.

You may be outside the USA, but if the server your signal is coming from (the server people find your stream at) is located in the USA, then you are subject to all the tariffs etc that any USA DJ would be.

For example, I am in Canada, but my actual webserver is located in the USA. When I do a webcast from that server, I am subject to the penalties.

However, if I keep the source totally within Canada....ie: on my own computer.....then I do not have to pay the tariffs levied in the USA.

I am a Canadian mobile DJ and all my music is licensed by the AVLA for digital playback and I have been licensed since 2001. This license is something only available in Canada....and there is seperate AVLA licenses depending on how you are and where you are playing your music (mobile DJ, webcaster, store, airline etc).

I got to say .... Downloading music FROM P2P ISNT illeagal ..... , they cant get you for having downloaded music. You will find the legal action comes into force becasue copywrite coveres distribution not possesion. If you upload .. your illegal

Therefor Playing on a radion station only became a licence requirement recently i.e last 5 or so years.

Most DJ's on SL are there to have a bit of fun and to entertain. The average jo cant capture the stream therefor you arnt actually distributing HOWEVER you would in effect require the broadcasters licence to play rahter than a distributers licence.

Thats my 2 cents ...

Marty

I agree with a lot of what's said..

But what's up with playing royalty free independent music? very few stations on SL do that and well, there's a lot of great tunes out there to be discovered. There's music available in just about any genre too....

I've noticed a lot of gigs and open mics going on, it'd be nice to see more musicians getting involved instead of the same ones over and over.

I doubt SL DJ's have anything to worry about. A couple of key points.

* IF they stream mp3's. the music is only played on their land. Also, when you go to "About Land", no link is provided (you get a bunch of **********). So, this is not like it is a widespread stream.

* After reading an article about local college students being sued, it's not the downloading that gets you. It's the file "sharing". So, if you are one of those people on a P2P who pops up when someone does a search for a song.... you are at risk of getting sued. RIAA is more interested in cutting off the head of the snake and feeds the net (if you get rid of the people who offer the files, the downloaders will have nothing to download).

Live365 does, in fact, work with Second Life. And it's perfectly legal too. However, the caveat here is that you need one of the Professional Licenses to stream into SL legally--those start at $137.00 a month for 500 listener hours. You also need to note that you'll be streaming into Second Life ONLY on the applications for the BMI, SESAC, and ASCAP licenses.

I would STRONGLY encourage anyone concerned about legal streaming into SL to talk to customer service at both LoudCity and Live365, SPECIFICALLY asking about Second Life, rather than relying on the websites for information. The websites are targeted for webcasters, and do not include much information relevant to streaming into Second Life.

That said, until Congress gets off its collective butt and addresses the issues that Second Life is creating legally, we're in a huge gray area. Whether or not DMCA broadcasting rules apply in Second Life isn't clear--as that part of the document consistently refers to "websites." Be advised, however, ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC licenses are not a gray area, as the language--being much older and established--is sufficently broad to include Second Life. Whether or not you believe SoundExchange licensing is required, the others absolutely ARE required.

Kam

Wow. If the RIAA would ever come here and try to sue people I swear I'll never buy music from them again. Like someone said, its like having a bunch of your friend over to listen to your radio or CDs, nothing more than a few people.

Oddly, I have family in the industry (a record producer) and friends in the entertainment industry. They say the same thing and generally think that the RIAA was a bad idea.

RIAA ... is not a political group ... or at least it SHOULDNT be ... just like the MPAA, they are groups of distributors like Sony etc, who have a vested interest in protecting THEIR investment. If you look at what breaks down the financial reward on a CD sale, the BIGGEST slice goes to the music company... the artest themselves get the least cut of the slice and also all production costs are deducted from sales on the Artists slice.

If you download a song ... you are NOT stealing food from the artists mouths .. the RIAA have allready done that.

I would happily pay an artist DIRECTLY for a song for the work they do.... Please note I am a musician IRL too BUT... music ditribution has moved on significantly from the days of sitting with your tape recorder in front of your radio for the top 40 on a sunday with Tommy Vance, or borrowing a mates vinyl so you can run a tape off it.

I would argue with ANYONE who says that EVERY peice of software you have is legal ... and every cd/dvd/tape/video you own is shop bought.
Piracy is everywhere .... doesnt make it right ... but we cant sit here and say we are ALL innocent unless it happens against us.

If DJ';s wanna spin a few tunes on SL then fair game..... I DJ on SL ... and sometimes get 50 listeners .... some times get 5. Which reminds me ... next time im playing music in my house or car I must ask everyone to not listen as I dont have a public entertainment licence ......
or a broadcasting licence
or a dog licence *lol*

The industry needs to buy INTO the new technologies as the old days of THEIR monopoly have gone ..... lets pay the artists .... not the companies..

Musicians ..... get yourself out there .... advertise .... publicise .... websites etc ...