Diff. between shapes

If you took two store-bought shapes and gave them both all the same settings, would they look the same? I wondered if, if I buy a shape, I am just buying someone's combination of slider settings, or if there's more to it than that.

nope thats about it..although there is a skill to making those shapes and working those sliders..so it's more than just a matter of moving the sliders..it's a matter of getting them to where you want them for that perfect shape you want

There you have it. That's why I never understood why people would buy shapes. Read up on human proportions and make your own, it's really easy

well people buy shapes because some don't feel the want to mess with all that stuff.. some just don't pick up on it ..just like skins and clothes and anything else..to some it is easier than it is to others also..

Sure. And make your own furniture. That is just messing around with the prim sliders (non-sculptie talking about here). Course it wouldn't have pose in it, but there you can just pop a script in, slide a pose in, fiddle with script so pose works, and end up with pose and prim that is just one prim. It is just playing with sliders. And script.

Course most go poseball method, it seems, instead of script inserting of pose. That or the free menu thingie-jobbies that I've forgotten name of.

not necessarily, I'm pretty sure.

I have some non-human body shapes that I'm pretty sure could not be configured by changing a standard newbie shape's sliders. If those shapes utilize customized body parts, I see no reason why shape builders could not use improved customized body parts in human shapes as well.

well they could but try using the clothes you buy on them ..see we don't have fur or scales hehehehe

This discussion comes up fairly frequently.

A Human "Shape" is just slider settings, that is true. One could also say that a digital piece of art is "just pixels". Or a scuplture is "Just clay". But with each, the ART is in knowing what to put where.

There are interactions between various slider settings that are not inherently obvious. You can, for example, tweak the settings for the "Butt Size" slider all day long, and not get the same look as the person who understands that "Pelvis Length", "Saddle Bags", "Hip Width", "Hip Length", "Torso Length", "Love Handles" and "Belly Size" all play a part in how your butt looks!

Anyone can buy a lump of clay and shape it into a head. But it takes artistic talent to make that lump of clay into a beautiful and recognizable head, with good proportion and form.

If you have the talent for seeing the relationships and making the various settings conform to some image in your mind, then you need never buy a shape. But not every person has that gift, and many could never duplicate the results a shape artist gets, no matter how long they try, except by copying someone else's work, setting by setting.

As for non-Human shapes, some just use slider settings, and some, like Tinies and quad animals, require an animation overrider to warp the body in other ways, and force it to fit within the prim parts and move in the desired way. Making a non-human form is FAR more than just slider settings, in most cases.

ok all,

I will have to say I am a shape buyer. Yup I admit I Bec Sadofsky is a shape buyer. I have tried many times to get things just right and well guess what I will admit that I can not do it. Some are good at that and that is why I am willing to buy. Some great skins out tehr and noooooo way will I even try to make my own.

So put me as a happy consumer of goods I guess lol.

There are something like 51 sliders that define the face.

I didn't mean this as an insult to anyone who buys shapes. I wondered if the building blocks of the shapes were customized, for instance would a forearm made by one person be different than a forearm made by another, regardless of the slider settings. Or the foundation of the face.

I find that many shapes in stores have a look I don't care for...all booty and boobs, with narrow eyes and lips the size of sofa cushions. I would be willing to pay for a modifiable shape if the building blocks were superior, but if they are not and it IS a matter of slider settings, then I would rather do my own.

55 actually if you count ears...

ya it's all from the sliders for now using the mesh..
I do my own and it's kind of freeing feeling hehehehe..

I have a friend that has a hobby in sl of hunting down looks..she will see a picture she loves and hunts every item that makes up the model in the picture...then then next day hunt out another..it's her stress reliever..

i wanted to try to get her making clothes or something and her respones was..Listen Ceka some of us shop and some of us don't..i shop.. now go build something and leave me to my shopping lol

if you go to the forum hangout there is a avatar body proportion shape kit on the freebie wall that you might find helpful

I can't get my thighs right. There's no slider for thighs. They are too small for the rest of Treasure's body.

how many times do i have to tell you to stop overusing your ThighMaster Treasure!! Oh and I just looked at the shape kit and it has a detailed notecard on how all the sliders inter-relate so maybe that might help you as well with your thigh problem

Yeah that's what it looks like, too, like I've overused the thighmaster. My problem is that all the shapes I like have too much height for me. I like the height I am, I just need to add to the thighs and I don't know how. The sliders go from above the thighs to below the thighs, nothing for the thighs. Actually I am wearing a mod shape now, one I bought at Inks and Kinks. I like it because it doesn't make me too tall but I still can't get the thighs right. I'll make it a project and I will check the body proportion kit at the hangout, thanks Josh.

NP .. I just took a look at the kit and it has a pretty detailed notecard with advice on how to adjust sliders for certain body parts etc so might be helpful.

One reason my 'for sale' shape is a freebie.

Yeah - if you know what you're up to you don't need to buy a shape. But if you're struggling it can be handy. And if you get one with at least mod perms, it can be a handy base for starting.

Mine's free, and copy / mod. Only reason its not transfer is so I can see how often people grab it.

An av shape is just slider settings as many have already pointed out and that's fair enough if you are the kind of individual who really doesn't like to edit in-world items. I was similarly confused during my earliest weeks because, even though I had been playing with the shape sliders from my very first minute in SL, I mistakenly assumed that shape sellers provided extra elements that were not obviously available through the 'Appearance' dialog.

One major disadvantage of using readymade shapes is that creators often make them 'no modify' so the customer is stuck with sharing the basic look with a lot of other residents who use the same product. In my opinion, the shape affects the look of an av in equal measure to the skin. So 'no modify' shapes should be provided in at least be two versions: one with size 0 feet for wearing prim footwear and one with more realistically sized feet so that the av will not look like a geisha when barefoot on the beach - teeny little pointy non-feet are a terrible affliction.

I would suggest that it's best to buy or acquire a copiable, modifiable shape so that you can experiment with your look to some degree and make it more your own as Pussycat suggests. You can always revert to the original if you are not happy with the results.

However be careful to create your own shape at the earliest opportunity when you are confident with the 'Appearance' sliders. You do this by right-clicking in your inventory folder and choosing 'New Body Parts > New Shape'. That way you 'own' the privileges on your work so you can give away or sell the shape as you please.

I also made this mistake during my first week when I 'overwrote' my own shape settings on a pretty much crap shape that came with a freebie full permissions skin. Months went by as I tinkered with the settings until I eventually had a completely original item. Only then did I realise that even though I could give the shape away or sell it, the creator credit in 'Properties' was another account entirely.

Of course it was a simple enough matter to copy the settings down on a few sheets of paper and enter them on a new shape I created but it was a tedious and relatively unnecessary task that took a half hour out of my day. It is also very easy to overlook the creator credit and that could cause trouble if you choose to sell the item where it was a freebie acquired from someone else.

Also be aware that the 'Hair' body part contains important eyebrow settings that affect the look of your av's face even when this is just a transparent bald item hiding the ugly linden hair. So it is always best to create your own hair base and wear that instead of the hair base provided with prim hair from other creators. Just drop a transparent texture into the hair 'Texture' box under the 'Hair' tab while you're wearing it and run all the 'Style' settings down to 0 just to be sure.

Interesting comments. I will check out the shape kit Joshooah. I have no idea if I have ended up in proportion or not! From some angles, sometimes it looks like my legs are too long, and then in others they look too short.

Treasure, it's not just thighs that are a problem, it's knees! I hate how in jeans my knees are so tiny. In certain poses, the resultant effect is "stick insect."

Ephraim, ty for all the info. Lots of good points. I don't think that I will be selling my shape or giving it away, so I'm not too worried, but you're right, I have modified a freebie shape that is technically not mine.

Making a shape is just about the easiest and most accessible act of creating that you can do in Second Life. Compared to making stuff like furniture, buildings, clothing, and so on... it's nothing at all. The only thing you need to make decent shapes is a good eye for proportion. And if you don't have that, surely you can find somebody who will help you out? I guess that's where buying the shape comes in.

It just seems like a waste of L$ to me, but ultimately it's your money and not mine

I agree, which is why I was nonplussed to discover as a newbie that folks actually treated shapes as saleable items. Making a personal shape is perhaps one of the easiest and most rewarding things a new resident can do in the beginning and buying a shape is perhaps one of the most wasteful expenses. Of course an 'eye' for proportion is helpful to make a good shape but the 'Appearance' dialog is a very simple and intuitive tool to use and much can be achieved by playing with the sliders.

There is a good deal of useful advice on making a well-proportioned human shape in the early pages of this thread:



I believe there is also link to a kit in there somewhere, which the OP, Brianna, was quoting. I think it was in 'beta' at the time but a finished version might be available now.

In body.

Decrease musculature and increase body fat just a bit, if you want a softer look.

Mess with the hip width, depth and saddlebags.

Of course, save your current shape first.

Shape making IS an art, and not all have the gift. Just look around at some homemade shapes whoever does not believe it. (This includes some I've seen in shops.) One thing many forget to do is to check it from ALL angles, or even from one - the side. Turn some bad shapes to the side and the face collapses.

Also some who think it's easy are going around way out of proportion. Nor does being in perfect proportion necessarily make a nice shape in itself - to look less doll-like a little imperfection is good. But subtle. Not something that jumps out at you like mile long legs or enormous bust or chest, or the collapsible nose.

Currently to be honest my shape's head is too small for my taste but since so many hair artists insist upon one size fits all I finally gave in. Now she is a 50 not a 60.

It is true there are a disproportionate number of artists in SL and that may be why some (who are likely creative themselves) think it is so very easy to make a nice shape. But NOT everyone who joins SL is an artist or can sculpt which is basically what this is.

Another point: a given shape often will look completely different given a different skin. Some skins have highlights and shading that emphasise (sometime overly so) various features and hide others. Different designers put eyebrows, nostrils, lips, nipples etc. at subtly different places and in varying sizes. I have one skin that makes my lips look like I've been smacked in the mouth by a sack of collagen. Another needs careful tweaking of the hair settings to avoid eyebrows like I'm in the early stages of a werewolf transformation.

Clothes can do the same thing, especially playing tricks with the perception of bust size. Not unlike real life