Best Computer For SL?

I own three different laptops and none of them can handle SL well. I crash constantly, and usually have to completely reboot the machine.

So, if I were to go out and buy the perfect computer for SL, what would that be? I'd prefer it be a laptop (I travel a lot). Thanks!

A few of the components that would be pertinent:

2gb of RAM
GeForce graphics card

http://computershopper.com/top-products/top_5_gaming_laptops

http://www.bizwaremagic.com/best_gaming_notebooks.htm

As Beebo notes, the current wisdom strongly suggest sticking with NVIDIA for the graphics hardware. The problems you're facing on the laptops you currently own might well be due to them having an under equipped Intel chipset, as well as drivers not quite up to the OpenGL 2 standard. I run SL at work on such a laptop, and I crash at least once or twice a day, often to the point of a stop error (blue screen)..

Remember:
Windows Vista + ATI Radeon = No SL

Ideal combo is Windows XP + NVidia + 2 Gb RAM + >2 GHz CPU

I have tried SL with both ATI and Nvidia cards. It crashes a lot with both. I think CPU power and lots of ram is helping more than what brand of card you use.

Or just maybe.. SL is one buggy and crash bound program no matter what hardware you have.

My idea of an ideal system for SL..

Linux (with liteweight window manager like fluxbox or icewm) + NVidia + 2 Gb RAM + >2 GHz CPU

Well, I have a similar, but more specific question. I have a laptop that (barely) runs SL--I don't plan on upgrading that as I use said laptop to work when on the road, and frankly, don't need to be spending TOO much time on the grid when I ought be working (/me carefully moves the chocolate to the back of the cupboard)

But I do want to get a better computer, so I can play with graphics/designs/the new sculpties, etc (my current computer can't even run the current version of PaintShopPro, for example). And, yes, I want to shop, go to balls and fly aircraft without the blessed thing locking up (at least not every 20 seconds). Right now, I walk into a building,t hen might as well make a cup of tea, because it will be a while before everything loads.

I'm thinking a desktop system (probably IBM system) for around $1000. No sense in telling me to pay $3000 for a "gamer dream" computer. If it will cost that much, I'll stick with my $450 lappie.

There's a fair number of threads on "ideal" equipment, and I get the idea that RAM and a servicable video card are fairly important. Then they cap it with "get educated before shopping".

So here is the million Linden question--where does one start "getting educated"? Trade magazines seem to be aimed at people who actually know what everything does, are filled with techno-babble (to my ears), and besides that, contradict each other. Are there some good, basic reference works out there for the hopelessly technically ignorant like myself? (Perhaps a Dummies series, for example).

I want a better computer, but I have no intention of tossing $1000 down the proverbial drain.

I run SL almost exclusively on a laptop (I travel a lot and use it on hotel Wi-Fi's). It runs like the proverbial and is better than my desktop at home.
Dell Latitude D620
NVIDIA Quadro 256 DRAM
Dual core Intel 2326 MhZ
20Gb RAM

I was just at a widely available computer store yesterday (name withheld) and I saw an HP laptop, 15' screen, 2.2 GHz, 1Gb RAM, 120 Gb HD, NVidia graphics, Win Vista, perfect for running SL, for only $699. So no, you don't have to spend $1000 to have a decent experience in SL, you only need to do some shopping....

/me eeks

That's heartening, but really, I wouldn't know the difference betweent the system you just described and a waste of money. I read a thread a month or so ago on what is really needed to SL (consensus seems to be that the Knowledge Page requirements are not enough), but again, it hardly made sense to me.

Where does one begin learning about these things? Are there any good books on the subject?

OMG YES! Lots!!

Building a PC is the easy part. Its when Windows has problems that the "Know How" comes into play.

Any Barnes & Nobles or Borders should have a decent "Build Your Own PC" book on the shelves.

So far, for Second Life, I'd recommend what the others are saying:
2 Ghz Processor (or faster)
2 Gigabytes of RAM
Nvidia Video card

The video card would depend on whether you go with AGP (soon to die out) or PCI-E. You might find deals on AGP cards, but will have trouble with upgrades in the very near future.

PCI-Express is the new kid on the block, offering faster bandwidth for video. In the Nvidia family you can pick up one of their New 8500 series for around $100 or so. And the cool part with PCI-E is, depending if the motherboard & video card support it, you can run TWO video cards (a.k.a. SLI).

First place you'd start is:
Do you prefer Intel or AMD for a Processor? From here you can look for a Motherboard.

For a motherboard, find one compatible with your processor (Socket Type). Just remember- you get what you pay for!! A $20 motherboard is considered "crap". A $200 Motherboard is considered "Hardcore Power User". So do some shopping around. I've used ECS, Epox, Abit, MSI, and Gigabyte motherboards, with people seeming to favor Gigabyte.

Also worth noting, what KIND of RAM does the motherboard take? DDR is cheap & dying out. DDR2 is the new kid and decently priced. Some folks have good luck with cheap RAM, some dont. Just make sure the RAM meets or is below the "speed" requirements of the motherboard. If it says "DDR2 800" then you could go with "DDR2 400", save some money but lose the speed.

Hard Drives: IDE is still around. Cheap too! Serial ATA is faster, easier to set up and does some neat lil' tricks and the price is about the same as IDE.

Power Supply: Um, Bare Minimum I always say is 500 Watts. If you run a PCI-E video card then make sure it has the connectors for it. Just like everything else, try to avoid the "Bargain Basement" priced ones. I've seen decent 500 Watt Power Supplies for $50. Not bad!

AND FINALLY, as with anything.... RTFM!!!

All the parts usually come with instructions (with pictures). Just be prepared to work on figuring out the badly written English.

Something frighteningly expensive

Thank you Tod69 for a very in depth answer. I will admit, none of it made any sense to me after the book recommendation, but at least I know WHAT I need to learn about. Like so many things, I expect comprehension will come later. I'll probably have to budget for someone to put the components together, as well.

Well, off to the chain bookstore, I suppose. Hate those places, but you're probably right. Unless you have a specific book recommendation? I'd prefer to order via Alibris or some such vice entering a den of canned music and stacks of celebrity-of-the-week diet books.

As the title asks, the BEST computer for SL is NOT a laptop... period, but many can be had that do quite well as SL is now. However, be aware that the built-in video units of laptops can almost never be upgraded. If SL changes in the future and your laptop video suddenly isnt good enough or not supported, you'll need a whole new laptop, instead of just a new video card. Something to think about...

Anything is good for SL, just make sure it meats the requirements: http://secondlife.com/corporate/sysreqs.php

Unfortunately, it's probably NVidia INTEGRATED graphics (included as part of the motherboard chipset). Not at all the same thing as a good separate GPU.

good price, I recently picked up a Compaq Presario for £400. Other than hassle in getting drivers sorted ( Vista lasted 1 hour before I got rid of that piece of junk ) it works like a dream and runs SL just fine. Has a Go 6100 Geforce card and older ATI dual core processor. Works great .

Most Laptop GPU's ARE integrated, what's more important is the Graphics RAM. If that's shared then that's bad.

OK, for those who missed my post AND the second Sticky: http://www.driverheaven.net/modtool/

Just for comparison purposes, can anyone tell me their experiences of running SL on a laptop and running any of the other virtual world progs, such as world of Warcraft?

Thanks

"How to Build the Perfect PC" is a fabulous reference book, even if you never build your own computer. It outlines and explains all the components for a PC, and most importantly how to choose which ones you need.

Despite being a complete hardware noob, I decided to build my own computer so I could get a high quality computer for a bargain price. The book, IMHO, claims the learning curve is a lot easier than I found it to be, and there was at least one point I was near tears with frustration and ready to chuck the book out the window.

But I stuck with it: read, and re-read, and looked up anything the book didn't explain. Then I took a deep breath and dove in. The result is a rock-solid computer that runs SL very well indeed, and an enormous sense of accomplishment.

I can answer this easily .....

My Computer is the best for Sl...

or at least thats what everyone is saying *lol*, theres no REAL best .... NVidia are no better than ATI Intel are really no better than AMD. PC vs MAC ???

If it works .. then its good for SL,

I run SL on 2 different systems
Acer 520 Laptop with 512 Ram on board graphics (SIS chipset) and apart from the MASSIVE memory hole in SL which means it gets progressivly slower it actually tuns ok

Custom built Abit fatality board, 3gig Core Duo, 2 gb Ram MSI Radion 9500 pro, Same memory hole but pretty stable apart from the hole eventually making the client bomb.

So whats the best machine for SL ....... as somebody said earlier... as long as its complient with the spec sheet you shouldnt have any troubles

I've been building systems since the IIe was the rage, playing in SL for quite a while, and have had the opportunity to run it on everything from the most pathetic AMD 500, 500 megs RAM, SiS video to a beastly Core Duo Extreme 3.6 OC'd to 4.0 with 8 gigs of RAM and a pair of Nvidia 8800's, under every O/S from Win 98 to Solaris. It amazes me what kind of crap hardware and software SL will run on.

Here's what I've found;
First, SLi is useless as teats on a boar in SL. It doesn't improve a thing. SL's code sets it to Single no matter what you do. Yeah, it blows, but we can still use them in WoW.
Second, SL is not really picky about video card speed, as long as the Vid card supports OpenGL, it'll work and the differences in what the average person can see is minimal, the 8800 SLi setup looks virtually the same as a tweaked GeForce 5200 on a similarly clocked machine. Video memory does make a minor difference, 512 draws faster than 128, but the end product looks about the same. Frame rates are another story, which I'll get to in a minute.
Third, 1 Gig of RAM is sufficient for SL, Windows XP or Vista, Yahoo, IE7 and Media player to run simultaneously. SL will simply not use more than 450-500 megs of RAM for itself. Having a system with high memory bandwidth helps up to a point, but DDR vs. DDR2 makes very little difference. Anything over 333 MHz is good enough.
Fourth, CPU speed, anything over 3GHz produces rapidly diminishing returns, under 2.0GHz gets sluggish very quickly regardless of Video card, amount of RAM and network bandwidth. While SL is very dependant on CPU speed, there is a wide range of usable CPU speeds availeable that will provide a nice view of this world.
Fifth, ATI sucks, thier drivers are garbage under OpenGL.
Sixth, Network bandwith is another big thing, if you are far from a node on a DSL in Timbuktu, or on a Satellite, you are screwed. SL needs the bandwith of a Cable modem. There is a reason that slider goes to 1000, it'll use it if you have it.
Seventh and last point, SL does not appear to be multithreaded, A single core of the same speed will perform exactly the same as a dual.

My own machine is pretty hot, AMD X2 6000+ (3.4GHz on Water cooling), 2 gigs Corsair XMS Pro DDR2 800Mhz, Cas4, 7800GTX 512's in SLi (most of the time). My wife's is an AMD A64 3200+ (2.0GHZ), 2 gigs Corsair XMS Pro DDR400Mhz Cas2 with a single 7800GTX 512. A machine I just built for a friend is an AMD FX57 (2.8Ghz), 1 Gig GEIL DDR 400Mhz with a 7300GT 256.

In the exact same place, at the same time, with the exact same graphics settings, on my business class Cable connection, 15k Dn, 1500 up, watching the exact same 40 people dance with particles, gestures and lighting flying, all three machines showed an average 27FPS. The Intel Extreme I mentioned earlier showed an average 32FPS when I fired it up.

I swapped out the 7800 in the wife's for a PCI GeForce 5200 128 card, logged back into the same place, and frame rates were down to 12FPS. Still playable but this got me wondering, so I tried playing with the clock speed on my 7800GTX. I found that after 390MHz, I stopped seeing real gains in FPS. Below 300 MHz, framerates dropped pretty dramatically until at 200MHz. it was showing the 12 FPS I'd observed from the 5200.

My conclusion, and I do apologise for being rather long winded, is that virtually any PC with a modern CPU above 2.0GHZ, with at least 1 Gig of good RAM, with almost any current Nvidia video card on a decent internet connection is going to give roughly the same experience for the average user in SL. Me personally, I like AMD, but in SL, AMD vs Intel is a moot point.