How would you be different?

If I understand correctly from the official blog post (re: "The Good Old Days" there's a sort of glasnost coming; apparently it's come to the blog already, and perhaps it will come to the forums here too.

I remember back in 2004, 2005, when the forums here were quite different; it's hard to express how different even with the archives documented here still.

There was a timely factor to it, an urgency, a sort of raw ongoing discussion that just isn't here in this present day of Resident Answers and Building Tips.

There was a lot of 'nasty' back then too, to which the End Of The Old Days in the archives will graphically attest. There were reasons why history unfolded as it did, even if not all of us agreed with the reasons.

* * * * *

There are going to be some consequences, I think, both good and bad.

First, a more freewheeling official forums may impact many of the off site places. The marketplace of ideas is a powerful thing, just like SLExchange (Xstreet? what are they calling it these days?) is for commerce.

Going back to the forums of old may be, in a way, GOM'ing the forums and the "SL information" market. Some outposts will be big enough to survive regardless, like say SLUniverse.

But think of it this way: if a new resident has maybe 30 minutes a day to read up on SL, an expanded blog and freewheeling official forums will take a much bigger percent of those minutes. It's a business~sensible idea. If you own that blog and forums, you'll own a larger percentage of the conversation. Think of that in marketing terms and perhaps it will make sense.

Another unintended side effect might be SL 'celebrity' status, for quite a number of you here already. The grid is different now than in the past; in a time when only 3000 were on at once you could stand out with relative ease. Now that's a lot harder to do inworld.

But not so, here on the forums! If anything, the forum members that post much are ridiculously over~represented percentagewise, compared to the inworld population. And I daresay, even compared to the number of quiet lurkers reading.

People that post here will, just like in the old days, start to over~represent themselves significantly when it comes to defining commerce and culture.

Finally, we are going to see a few things revealed about ourselves.

I for one would get into fairly long, freewheeling discussions on the economic board; or get into some philosophic debate that would go on for days with a number of participants. I was quite a bit more razor~tongued, too (though having such vested interests as I do here now, I may have sense enough to keep the snarkydog in the doghouse). Jig and Pep's debates had nothing on me, back in the day.

So how about the rest of you?

Would you not change one bit, having no facet of yourself that would find an outlet with a more open venue?

Or are you biting your lip these days, constantly holding back what you *would* discuss if there was an appropriate venue?

Would you join with a clique, be a rebel... be a devil's advocate, be part of the nodding and agreeing Common Wisdom? Would you start up an off topic discussion about knitting sweaters... what?

Something to think about.

Given that Google has archived stuff I wrote back in the early '80s, I gotta say...

What a bunch of newbs!

I don't see the forums going back to the days of old, I've had a look at those archives and I don't see that coming back. I also feel resident answers is on the hit list as they seem to prefer to categorise everything these days and this forum has became a general discussion area as well as a place for residents to get questions answered, which doesn't fit an easy category. Yahoo answers style will so not fit the current style of this forum.

I'd love an economy forum, indeed I'd love the Linden's to take more interest in the economy, well more public interest anyway.

The forum can become wearisome, there's also the glaring reality that nothing we say in the forum makes one iota of a difference to Linden policy or habits, they continually overlook the resident experience, the existing resident experience I mean. I'm not talking about technical issues, I'm talking about day to day resident experience such as bots, griefing, scams, search, sales, economy, they pay lip service but they won't look under the hood.

I think I would continue largely as I always have: Reading the areas that interest me, and offering what helpful advice I can, while learning what I can from others. Might start an off-topic conversation once in a while, or join in one, but not often. I tend not to spend much time in off-topic or frivolous threads, or in those that turn into nasty cat-fights.

I found the external forms to be a pretty massive failure, for me. They tended to be dominated even more than the old forums by small cliques of vocal individuals. And, as you noted, if one has to choose to spend time on a single "official" forum or spend time searching through a variety of independant fora, the official one will win out, for a lot of people. I tried being active on them, but never felt particularly "welcome" or "part of the crowd" in any of them. So I drifted back to the official forum site, regardless of how crippled it may be. It is still the official focus.

If they changed policy so one could officialy "name and shame" here, when one had a legitimate greviance against a griefer or a rogue group or an unscrupulous merchant, that might be good. But it would also be a real burden to prevent that from becoming a libel fest. How do you validate a claim of wrongdoing, and keep people from posting malicious lies, or carefully worded and misrepresenting half-truths? How do you moderate that, other than doing what LL has done, and making it unacceptable entirely?

Forums will always represent a minority of a community. Only a small percentage of any group likes placing themself in the public eye and spending lots of time communication with others publicly. The majority will always tend to be silent, and most of that will probably never even be lurkers on forums.

I do hope that the Lindens will be more active, and more engaged in forum conversations. The silence has often been deafening here.

No difference. Creating mayhem and being silly seem to be what I do best.

My grandfather once told me, "If the rooster crows three times from atop the dung heap, the weather's about to change, or stay the same." By which I mean, it doesn't really matter to me what the Lindens do or don't do with the forums. I will continue to do the same as always (read a lot, post a little), right up until I do things differently.

If they close the forums down (or change them into something unrecognizably different) then I might end up elsewhere, like an external forum, but probably wouldn't change my pattern or anything outside of that. I'd miss these forums if they went away though.

Cheers!

-Atashi

And I have to say you are very damn good at it. Thanks for keeping it interesting!

Where is this coming change described? I've looked at the blog, but don't see it.

You are most welcome. I consider that high praise, coming from you.

No difference. I am the same now as i was in 2003-2004 posts. 2005-2006 saw a different me as i was literally a different person attitude wise due to medication and anyone looking at my posts of late 2005 or 2006 can definitely see a very very angry me - as opposed to 03,04,07,08 and now 09.

If the forums change dramatically, I think that will be the end for me as I cannot really go to another forum without being targeted by one particular member and constantly harassed and slandered.

So if the forums change, either i will stop using them or just adapt to the change and hope it allows for decent conversations like this one.

Wow - my post just disappeared off my screen for no reason and I found myself on the home page. Huh? What was that all about?

Anyway - if we are not to have a general discussion forum as Des seems to prophesy, I would hang out in some forum or blog somewhere that discusses the impact of SL on RL, and what we have learned about ourselves and others from our experiment with SL.

There really needs to be a forum like that somewhere -- and I'm sorry that the "other" forum does not lean toward matters like this that interest me. Worst comes to worst I would start my own.

As to the forum regulars having some kind of celebrity status -- well, maybe among other forum regulars. Otherwise we are as anomymous as a newbie unless we have acheived something in world besides just posting on the forums.

I'm there if you start one and do not mind my presence.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/02/14/coming-soonthe-good-ol-days

You know what, I may have massively misinterpreted the whole thing!

The bullet points were:




* Individual channels of communication for each subject

* Numerous means of accessing channels (including RSS and email subscription)

* Discussion format sub-blogs for extended conversations with threading, voting etc…

* Private sub-blogs for communities working in Second Life (like educators and Solution Providers)




Seems that's what they *have* implemented already ~ but *only* through the blog and not via forums at all.

The "extended conversations with threading" phrase was the one that tripped me up ~ I naturally figured it was like the extended conversations we've had prior to the "new blog" here in forums.


Edit: upon deep retrospective analysis, I think too quickly read "Discussion FORMAT sub-blogs" as "Discussion FORUM sub-blogs" ... and jumped the shark from there. Doh.

No one went to my gallery. I must not be a forum celebrity. Since that didn't signficcantly alter the traffic numbers going to my art gallery (heh, commerce and culture).



I do not actually know what you are asking.

I've not responded/posted at times because I am socially stunted and do not know when I am coming across as pushy or funny or what have you. So I am and have "bitten my lip" before posting. Or just forgoing the pleasure of posting.

I guess I did join a group. Though I never seem to see any of them in world. Much. Only on forum.

If the official forum expanded, would I change? Subset of forums for certain topics? If it contracted, would I change? No.

I think the best analogy that can be made is the difference between a start-up and fully functioning company that needs stability. Those of us who were around during the early days were part of the start-up. The passion and fighting were an integral part of defining this thing called Second Life when even the Lindens weren't sure what exactly they had and where it was going. One thing that stands out for me when I go back and read older sections of the forums is that back in the early days, we residents were actively involved in shaping what SL was and what could be done with it. Over time, that changed (as it must, see Tragedy of the Commons) and LL began to shape SL independently of where many residents wanted it to go. What I think you see in the dying days of the old General forum is the bitterness of people who shaped the early days of SL and were ultimately left behind as it moved onward. A common occurance with start-up companies.

I see SL as starting to emerge on the other side of the change that has been taking place over the past two years. As with all things, a bend in the road doesn't mean the end of the road...unless you fail to make the turn. Responding to a changing marketplace is what defines who will succeed and who will fail. "Stars" come and go in any market. It is a rare company or individual that can stay on top over time. If you look at who was "on top" in SL during 2005, almost none of those names make a list of so-called celebrity status now. Most of the current population has no name recognition of the former "FIC" or the inventor of that term. In fact, there is no longer any such thing as "celebrity" status unless you carry the last name of Linden. People are still famous in certain circles -- various forums being one of those circles -- but SL is just too big now for individual personalities to dominate and maintain recognition.

The forums, however, are a different story. It is very easy for individual personalities to dominate and ruin a community in the way the old forums were ruined by a fairly small number of highly agressive people who can't play well with others. For this reason, I don't wish for a more free-wheeling official forum. This forum is a secondary line of marketing and is a critical element in keeping people in SL once LL has managed to get them in the door. As something "official" with the LL nameplate stamped on it, it has to be held to a higher standard. Off-site forums are different, they don't have to hold up to perusal on a newbie's first day when they are trying to figure SL out. You only get one chance to make a first impression and survival of the fittest is not a good long-term customer retention strategy.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I would love to have an economics forum nestled in with the content creation forums.

I've posted self-nudes before and I'll do it again. =^-^=

Immy (A promise or a threat?)

I have also. Semi-nude here, nude over on SLU. Until I was told that wasn't allowed on SLU. Oddly I haven't really been back since. I have a thread open that pops up each time I log in at home, so it might look like I'm still going to SLU, but I haven't looked there in a long while.

I went there because I could be freer there. Then found out I couldn't.

Nude pictures?

Eh? How long ago? Now they have Neko, BDSM, and other boards that are totally NSFW. I got a couple boober shots over there myself now. =^-^=

I do not recall now. Long after BDSM boards started. Long after I filled that gallery thread with picture after picture of my naked avatar. It was February or Janaury I posted a picture in a thread about a hunt. Yes, February. I noted the hunt prize was just a top and socks. I then posted a picture of myself. The picture, illustrating a hunt prize and not intended to be "porn" or "grati. . .:" . . um, how is that spelled? Gratitous nudity. um.

And it got pulled by moderator. Picture was replaced with a link. Got a PM telling me not to post nude pictures.

My reaction might have been different if I was attempting to post a nude shot or something like that. But I was just trying to post a hunt prize picture. So . . . my time there has dropped considerably.

Shh! Nobody noticed!

Whatever . . .

Pie (change is the only constant; move with the times; insert your own cliche here)

Another example of completely un-even-handed moderation. I can't say I'm surprised.

I admit it wasn't the moderator that told me. Unless that person now has moderator power over there.

It still annoys me so I wasn't thinking clearly enough to insert that part of the issue.

This is very true. And it makes LL's abysmal behavior in regards to this Forum over the past several years so confounding.