What is the Status of Blue Mars as we enter 2010?
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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12-30-2009 18:22
@Yumi - yes, its not done yet. That was the point of this thread in the first place. Desmond has explained that Caledonia in this version is a "preview". The next update will start activating shops and private homes. Movement controls suck, me and 99% of the beta users agree, and its on their list to fix. Avatar attachments, skins and shapes are due next quarter. Some features are not planned till late 2010. Overall, look at it this way: If they waited till all the software was done before letting it out for test and for content creators to make stuff, you would have an untested virtual world with no content to play with. This way both testing and content will be done before it goes into actual release. The only downside of doing this is having to suffer people complaining about lack of features for a project that's not done yet  On your last point - I plan on offering pre-made and custom city files with the setup already done, but an SL private island doesnt come with much by default, you still have to terraform it and build on it yourself. The main difference is doing online in SL vs doing it offline in Blue Mars. In the latter case, you dont have to start paying for it till you are ready to go live and you can have backups! whoda thunk Please don't think I believe one is better than the other. SL has an 8 year headstart, the technology is different, so you cant really compare them directly. But to the extent they are both virtual worlds, people will compare them. |
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Jumpman Lane
JUMPY!!!
Join date: 7 May 2007
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12-30-2009 19:17
bore rink! andif no sex will stay that way. avis look crappy. sit rep? no intel atm!
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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12-30-2009 19:35
From: Jumpman Lane bore rink! andif no sex will stay that way. avis look crappy. sit rep? no intel atm! Would you mind repeating that in English this time? Intel is a chip making company, not a bank, so no wonder they do not have Automated Teller Machines On the subject of adult content for Blue Mars: I agree, adults want to be adults, and not allowing that will blow out a big potential market. I am as interested as anyone how this aspect of Blue Mars will play out. Developers have asked, but they are being cautious about adult content right now. There are several things to consider: * They intend to open it up to age 13+ (that's in my summary under Accounts). * "Residences" are instanced private spaces. People outside cannot look in, and people inside can see the city outside, but not the avatars which are there. So you can't tell what people are doing in private. * The ability to gate cities. Where the city owner can require verification or payment before entry. * Flash integration - that blows a huge hole in their ability to control content * Developer mode - where the city file is shared privately, off their servers. * They are marketing Blue Mars to college students. I can't imagine that will work without adult content *smile* * Next quarter they will offer skins as a sellable item, and the quarter after that animations. You can already shake hands in Blue Mars. the difference between that and sex is just the details of the couples animation * Prohibition has never worked, it only serves to increase prices and profits of the people selling what is prohibited. I seem to remember a naked mod for the Sims where you did not get any software tools to work with. With Blue Mars they supply a complete game designer's kit for free. I don't see how it will be possible to keep adult content out. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
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12-30-2009 19:51
From: DanielRavenNest Noe Would you mind repeating that in English this time? Intel is a chip making company, not a bank, so no wonder they do not have Automated Teller Machines On the subject of adult content for Blue Mars: I agree, adults want to be adults, and not allowing that will blow out a big potential market. I am as interested as anyone how this aspect of Blue Mars will play out. Developers have asked, but they are being cautious about adult content right now. There are several things to consider: * They intend to open it up to age 13+ (that's in my summary under Accounts). * "Residences" are instanced private spaces. People outside cannot look in, and people inside can see the city outside, but not the avatars which are there. So you can't tell what people are doing in private. * The ability to gate cities. Where the city owner can require verification or payment before entry. * Flash integration - that blows a huge hole in their ability to control content * Developer mode - where the city file is shared privately, off their servers. * They are marketing Blue Mars to college students. I can't imagine that will work without adult content *smile* * Next quarter they will offer skins as a sellable item, and the quarter after that animations. You can already shake hands in Blue Mars. the difference between that and sex is just the details of the couples animation * Prohibition has never worked, it only serves to increase prices and profits of the people selling what is prohibited. I seem to remember a naked mod for the Sims where you did not get any software tools to work with. With Blue Mars they supply a complete game designer's kit for free. I don't see how it will be possible to keep adult content out. I suspect that you are right, but it will be a nightmare for them enforcing age restrictions if the app is indeed open to 13+. Unless they dump the responsibility for this . . . and the potential penalties . . . into the laps of the city owners. There will need to be some form of age verification, surely?
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Scylla Rhiadra
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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12-30-2009 21:00
From: Scylla Rhiadra I suspect that you are right, but it will be a nightmare for them enforcing age restrictions if the app is indeed open to 13+. Unless they dump the responsibility for this . . . and the potential penalties . . . into the laps of the city owners. There will need to be some form of age verification, surely? Go look at their registration page, right now it asks for date of birth, but no verification at all. https://member.bluemars.com/game/WebRegistration.html Unless they changed it recently, all you do is get an activation email to confirm, then download the software. |
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Riseon Kosten
*Rizzy*
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12-31-2009 07:23
From: Scylla Rhiadra There will need to be some form of age verification, surely? Doesn't seem much different than the countless adult content websites that require no verification other than telling them how old you are.
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
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12-31-2009 08:18
From: Riseon Kosten Doesn't seem much different than the countless adult content websites that require no verification other than telling them how old you are. True, but the reason that LL instituted the new adult content rules was because they obviously considered that insufficient, especially in the face of the FTC report. I'd be very surprised if something as carefully corporate as BM didn't want to do the same thing.
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Scylla Rhiadra
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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12-31-2009 10:07
From: Scylla Rhiadra True, but the reason that LL instituted the new adult content rules was because they obviously considered that insufficient, especially in the face of the FTC report. I'd be very surprised if something as carefully corporate as BM didn't want to do the same thing. Characterizing them as "carefully corporate" makes me laugh. They are a small enough company (about 30 people) that I was able to chat with their CEO on the phone for about an hour about questions I had that would interest SL residents. That same guy (Jim Sink) wrote a lot their FAQ pages on the website, which if you look closely has holes and typos. Their "well oiled publicity machine" consists of one person (Glenn Sanders), and a grad student (Tiffany). As far as I can tell, most everyone else are programmers and graphic designers. I doubt they have a full time lawyer on staff. What "corporate veneer" they have is from Virtual Space Entertainment http://www.virtualspaceentertainment.com/ , which is a separate company made up of professional game and hollywood designers. They created the Venice demo city and a promotional video for Blue Mars, and are supposed to be building the Smithsonian exhibit for Blue Mars. But VSE bears the same relationship to Avatar Reality as IBM does to SL - a user of the platform important enough to talk on a company to company level, but still a separate entity. |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
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12-31-2009 10:35
Blue Mars is more gaming-oriented than SL, and so will certainly support developers who want to create PG games and residential areas. But, enforcing content restrictions pretty much has to fall on the developer's and city manager's plates. As for "corporate" - I think Scylla may have meant "sanitized", enough so that it would be a suitable venue for Disney or other large PG entertainment empires. Looking at BM's current direction, I doubt that non-entertainment corporations will be looking to BM as a collaboration/meeting venue, and I doubt that AR is looking to particularly attract them. For that sort of place, companies will probably be looking more to offerings like: > IBM's SameTime 3D meetings http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/27831.wss> ReactionGrid (OpenSim grid, just stole Microsoft away from SL): http://reactiongrid.com/TheRGTeam/About.aspx> Proton Media http://protonmedia.com/ETA: note that IBM's offering is architected so that they can plug in Virtual Meetings on any platform they want - OpenSim, SL, or BM -- so long as they can commit to supporting their (IBM's) customers there. etc. etc.... |
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Argent Stonecutter
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12-31-2009 11:37
From: Yumi Murakami You can buy currency ("BLU"  now, although for some strange reason you can only do so using Firefox. No, it isn't just because of IE being awkward - it won't allow Chrome or Safari either, it HAS t obe Firefox. Oh, and it goes through some weird site called Social Gold to do so. Oho, so the BLU$ is being outsourced to one of the latest eGold/Flooz/Beanz clones. I hope they picked a reliable one this time. From: someone Yes, it's super-old-style web hosting back again! In all fairness, MOST of the 3d VR environments are doing this, using the server as a file server and message router only. It's much easier than actually implementing non-volatile server-side stateful physics and scripting and stuff. |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
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12-31-2009 16:03
BlueMars status: BOOOORING.
By choosing the puritan road they are just going to be yet another PlayStation "Home".
I can't wait to see Opensim evolve into something bigger and better than SL.
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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12-31-2009 16:18
From: Kyrah Abattoir BlueMars status: BOOOORING.
By choosing the puritan road they are just going to be yet another PlayStation "Home".
PS3 Developer's Kit (required for "Home" content) $10,750US Blue Mars Developer's Kit $0 US Bit of a difference in who can create for the two platforms. We also need them to define what "sexually explicit content" is. Does that mean avatar sex, or playing RL porn videos on a flash screen? |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
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01-02-2010 13:07
Dan, I see BM is using the LUA scripting language. Are there any LUA syntax extensions yet for BM, that allow a script to manipulate inworld objects and/or avatars?
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Argent Stonecutter
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01-02-2010 14:39
All the scripting in BM is on the client, and objects belong to scripts instead of the other way around. Kind of like particle systems in SL.
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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01-02-2010 15:02
From: Nika Talaj Dan, I see BM is using the LUA scripting language. Are there any LUA syntax extensions yet for BM, that allow a script to manipulate inworld objects and/or avatars?
. Yes, here is a code snippet from the ARChair.lua script, one of the default ones in the developer kit: -- State Init ARChair.Init = { OnBeginState = function (self) self:EnableNetSync( true ); self:EnableAvatarSnap( true ); self  etAvatarAnimSlotName("SeatedChair" ; (it appears to set the avatar animation) And here is a snippet from the RigidBody.lua script (for objects which are physics enabled) function RigidBody:Event_AddImpulse(sender) self.temp_vec.x=self.Properties.Impulse.X; self.temp_vec.y=self.Properties.Impulse.Y; self.temp_vec.z=self.Properties.Impulse.Z; self:AddImpulse(0,nil,self.temp_vec,1); end (it appears to change the velocity of an object from external impulse) |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
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01-02-2010 15:15
From: DanielRavenNest Noe Yes, here is a code snippet from the ARChair.lua script, one of the default ones in the developer kit: -- State Init ARChair.Init = { OnBeginState = function (self) self:EnableNetSync( true ); self:EnableAvatarSnap( true ); self etAvatarAnimSlotName("SeatedChair" ; (it appears to set the avatar animation) And here is a snippet from the RigidBody.lua script (for objects which are physics enabled) function RigidBody:Event_AddImpulse(sender) self.temp_vec.x=self.Properties.Impulse.X; self.temp_vec.y=self.Properties.Impulse.Y; self.temp_vec.z=self.Properties.Impulse.Z; self:AddImpulse(0,nil,self.temp_vec,1); end (it appears to change the velocity of an object from external impulse) Oh god . . . just when I thought I was beginning to get a bit of a handle on LSL . . . 
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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01-02-2010 15:16
From: Argent Stonecutter All the scripting in BM is on the client, and objects belong to scripts instead of the other way around. Kind of like particle systems in SL. Actually both scripts and 3D models are assigned to an "entity", a named class of items. An entity can expose arbitrary parameters which can be set per instance, and can also be linked in a flowgraph with other items (ie output from entity 1 becomes input to entity 2). Argent is correct that scripts (and physics) are run locally on your PC, and the results are shared via the servers for other people to see. So when I sit on a chair, the chair script will send a message to update my position on everyone else's screen. |
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Denver Ghost
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01-02-2010 19:07
From: DanielRavenNest Noe Back when I was a kid, I had hoped we would be on the real Mars by 2010. Alas we are not, but we have another virtual world ramping up it's development. This is a compilation of current status of Blue Mars and their announced plans for added features. Are there any SL features or topics I missed?, let me know and I will add it or research it. Quoted items are from their FAQ pages: http://www.bluemars.com/about/faq_index.html ------------------------------------- BLUE MARS STATUS Dec 2009 ------------------------------------- DOWNLOADS: Added selectable city downloads Dec09. No way to remove a city yet (aside from manually deleting the file). "We are transitioning to a patching process so users only need to download what has changed since the last update." ACCOUNTS: Alts are available via separate emails for registration. (I have two user accounts for testing purposes). The various registrations for user vs developer vs wiki are somewhat a mess. "For the time being, the Blue Mars client is for users 18 and older. We plan to extend Blue Mars to users 13 and up in the first quarter of next year" PROFILE: Added Dec09 on account MyPage in very basic form. Not accessible in-world that I know of. FRIENDS LIST: Available since Oct09, shows online status only. No way to call them or find them at present. INVENTORY: Added Dec09 on account MyPage. Shows 4 items per page. Not sure if it shows in-world yet. SEARCH: "Managing security issues and improving our promotional features like search, ratings, and recommendations will be an ongoing focus for Avatar Reality." LOCAL CHAT: Uses annoying chat bubbles and history window INSTANT MESSAGING: Not currently available, status unknown. VOICE: "We plan to make a decision on VOIP solution in Q1 2010. " GROUPS: "Yes! We’re working on groups and group chat features now." AVATARS: Default avatars have face customization and painting as of Oct09 and limited clothing and animation options. "In Q1 of 2010, we plan to support attachments, Masks, and Physiques. " (ie skin and shape mod) MOVEMENT: "In the first half of 2010, will extend the movement controls in the Client to let users map the movement controls to the keys they prefer." Note: Currently no jump. CAMERA CONTROLS: "In the first quarter of 2010, will extend the camera controls in the client to include mouse wheel support and alternate camera modes." FLYING: "Next year, Avatar Reality will provide a standard set of flying controls and animations for developers to use at their discretion. " INTER-CITY TELEPORT: Added Dec09 via "Places Browser" feature in client. POINT TO POINT TELEPORT: "Next year, we will offer a global teleport system so users can go exactly where they like in a City unless the City Developer has disabled teleportation for that area. " MAP: "Our global and default city maps are under development. We expect to release new versions of both in the first half of next year." WEB LINKS: "We aim to launch direct links in the Q1 2010" MEDIA: Added Dec09 via Flash 10 integration, including live video. CURRENCY: BLU$ added Dec09, at approximate parity to L$ (265/US$). Very little to spend it on right now. User to user transfer I have asked AR Staff, open question. Balance only shows on MyPage I think. SELLABLE CONTENT: "The beta currently supports furniture, hair, and clothing. In Q2 of 2010, we plan to offer an Animation Editor so developers can create and offer custom Avatar animations for sale. In the second half of 2010 we plan to offer scripted items and Bots as saleable items. We will offer a web based marketplace for Blue Mars items next year. " Textures, 3D models, scripts, terrain files and other builder component items are not set up to be sold yet. Developers have asked for ways to do that, and last I heard "it is being looked at". PERMISSIONS: Currently all sold items are no copy, no mod, no transfer, single items only (ie no outfit sets of clothing or furniture sets) Downloaded city and inventory data are encrypted to reduce content theft. Any items used in building are currently full permission as you are using the original data files in your builds. LAND MANAGEMENT: City and block access permissions not implemented as far as I know. Neither are eject, ban, or abuse reporting. PROHIBITED CONTENT: "Blue Mars does not permit games of chance or skill that offer payouts in Blue Mars Dollars or anything of value, sports or betting services that offer payouts in Blue Mars Dollars or anything of value, securities markets, banking of investment services, sexually explicit content, content that depicts bestiality" CONTENT CREATION: 3D Models, characters, animations, etc imported from any tool that can create COLLADA XML file format ( https://collada.org/mediawiki/index....ucts_directory ) or native Crytek formats (.cgf, etc.) Textures in TIF or native .dds. Scripts in Lua language. Blue Mars provides a set of editors to convert items to their format, and assemble builds in 3D space. Items can be uploaded for sale. Land based building requires access to a block or city file. Technical specifications are too long to include here, (I have a separate list for that) but in general they are higher than SL (more objects, more texture options, better physics, etc.) SL to BLUE MARS ASSET TRANSFER: Export from SL of full permission objects you created is possible via Prim Composer to 3ds Max, and thence to Blue Mars format. It is not easy or optimized, but I have done it for simple objects. Textures just require a format conversion. Scripts are incompatible. Animations I don't know about. You left out PROPRIETARY content rights only for the few. Lawyers must run this. I'm honestly not sure why the OP even brought it up. It will NEVER be SL and I'll never visit it. |
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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01-03-2010 00:20
From: Denver Ghost You left out PROPRIETARY content rights only for the few. Lawyers must run this. I'm honestly not sure why the OP even brought it up. It will NEVER be SL and I'll never visit it. I don't understand that comment. My understanding of Blue Mars' content rights is they are the same as Second Life, you own what you create. And since your creations start on your PC, you have the original files to do with as you please, not hidden inside an asset server like in SL. (and for god's sake learn to edit quotes LOL) |
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
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01-03-2010 03:33
From: Scylla Rhiadra Oh god . . . just when I thought I was beginning to get a bit of a handle on LSL . . . Fear not I was very apprehensive about getting involved with LUA, as I too thought I had only just started to get the hang of LSL. What I found was that the learning curve is about the same, because even though LUA is way more powerful than LSL (and is used by dozens of 3D games), and many, many more commands, the documentation for LUA is first class. You can download the full manual for it for free off the net. There are huge libraries of LUA code out there for you to do just about anything, and dozens of LUA forums to tap into too. And for those who just cannot be doing with scripting at all, but want to achieve the same ends, you can, with the Flowgraph system that is included, which lets you link objects, actions, events, etc. together in a graphical way, with no need for any coding at all. Rock |
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
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01-03-2010 08:00
From: DanielRavenNest Noe My understanding of Blue Mars' content rights is they are the same as Second Life, you own what you create. Which does bring up the interesting topic of renters needing a trustworthy city owner to hand over their creations full perm because only the city owner can upload them...
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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01-03-2010 10:00
From: Novis Dyrssen Which does bring up the interesting topic of renters needing a trustworthy city owner to hand over their creations full perm because only the city owner can upload them... That is indeed an open issue. Currently Block developers (think land parcel owner in SL) need to receive a full perm item to build with (say a house), in the form of a .cgf 3D model, .mtl materials description and .dds texture files. They pass their built block to the city developer, who merges it into the city file. At this point I can reassign it from the block to my main city layer in the file, and copy it at will. Items like clothing, and cities as a whole, are encrypted when delivered to the end user, but the entire chain prior to that, from individual textures and scripts, up to cities in development, are in the clear. Note that the trust has to work both ways. A city developer who has a team helping has to trust them too, since the in-work city files have to be distributed back to the team for testing. In theory they can encrypt items on the developer side, since that is built into the user client, and the developer tools run on the same code base. They also need a way to digitally sign or identify the creator of items so as to control re-uploading of an item by someone who copied it. Trying to chase down unauthorized copies after they are loose in the wild is a fail, as we have seen in SL. You need to be able to flag copies at the point of upload into the system. I've added it to my list of things to poke them with, but it again shows their general mode of thought. They are techies building software, but they do not have a good understanding of people, and how some of them will be bad. The lack of land access controls ( ban, eject, abuse reporting system, invite list, who can spawn (rez) items where ) is another instance of this.). They are still in development, so these things can be added later, but they are not even on the list of future features yet. |
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Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
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01-03-2010 11:06
Dan, congrats on making new bestest friends with the BM staff, talking about how you know them all and chat with them on the phone doesn't make you look at all like their corporate shill...  Yes I've check out BM and personally, I think it sucks, hard. "Just wait" isn't a valid excuse, BM opened themselves to the public with a crappy interface, saying it sucks when it does is a valid response.. maybe as some nebulous future date it won't suck.. but the fact it.. right now, it does and that's what we are talking about, yes, the current status of BM? We've been though all this before, all the excitement about Lively and how Google was going to force LL into cleaning up all the bugs and being more responsive to customers by offering serious competition... yeah.. that worked out. Oh and remember years back when Active Worlds got GM to sign up... yeah.. goes to show high profile corporations don't mean squat for online communities if the experience itself sucks. How about how OpenSim was going to put LL's feet to the fire because now we can all make our own worlds and our own content as we see fit... I'm on that bandwagon myself.. pffft.. all OS is now is a place to do content creation without lag before I import it into SL. Let's face it.. SL is the 800lb gorilla in Online 3D communities and is going to be for a very long time. Unless the bot overload causes it to implode in a wonderful cataclysm we call all roast hotdogs in. Here until the bloody end... unfortunately, Patasha |
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DanielRavenNest Noe
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01-03-2010 14:36
From: Patasha Marikh Dan, congrats on making new bestest friends with the BM staff, talking about how you know them all and chat with them on the phone doesn't make you look at all like their corporate shill... Let's face it.. SL is the 800lb gorilla in Online 3D communities and is going to be for a very long time. I don't think of myself as a shill, not when I started off the thread by listing all the deficiencies in their status. Their CEO contacted *me* in response to questions I emailed them about Blue Mars. I am signed up as a developer there (a) cause I am enjoying playing with the building tools and learning new stuff and (b) it *may* emphasize *may* turn out to be a viable virtual world. I have around $21K US invested in Second Life, so not going anywhere anytime soon. If you look up the SL User's Manual on the wiki https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User%27s_Manual check out who did most of the edits on it. Yeah, it sucks for players at the moment, even I think so. The major fault on their side is not making that more obvious to people signing up. "Its not done yet, but you can try out what we have and let us know what you think" should be in bold flashing red letters. I agree with you that 750,000 active users, 30,000 map regions, and over a million items for sale just on XStreet alone are huge advantages for SL. A new virtual world has a lot to do to get to that scale. But it does not have to be either-or. I can run both on my PC (at the same time even, Emerald & Blue Mars client). And multi-world sales (buy it once, use it in both) and cross world finances (exchange L$ for BLU$, or shop with either currency) are things I want to do, once Blue Mars matures more. |
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Elric Anatine
Full Lunar Alchemist
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A Skewed Litmus
01-04-2010 06:03
Once upon a time SL was in its infancy and open to the public. While I was not around back then, I have seen some video, and the interface was far from what it is now.
BM is in beta, open to the public, and people are (rightly so) comparing BM beta to current SL. This is, in truth, an unfair comparison.
However, having said all of that, BM, like SL, will continue to evolve. The question simply becomes -- will they evolve into a platform that satisfies or continues to satisfy YOUR desires? In the end, only each of us can decide which world(s) appeal.
Now, if some company was absolutely brilliant with massive startup capital, they would create a virtual world with a solid team of programmers/artists and present a near to final product to the public that feels like SL but with fixed bugs, protection against unscrupulous etc. Only then would people jump ship en masse.
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