IBM to host private Second Life regions behind IBM's corporate firewall
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Feldspar Millgrove
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 372
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04-03-2008 14:33
From: Chip Midnight Not so much IBM, Coco. I doubt we have to worry about them much, at least initially. But this is likely just the first of many such deals, and we know nothing about how they're handling assets and what protections, if any, will exist for our creations. Once they pass outside of LL's walled garden they're as good as gone. [...] I'd say the days of the SL economy as we know it are numbered. All content in SL, except for scripts, is transmitted to the Viewer. All the prims, objects, and textures. The content is all downloaded to anyone who looks at it, in a form that it can be fully copied. There are no permissions in play. This has always been the case, and was reverse-engineered by people even before the Viewer was open source. Anyone can steal anything they want this way, and a few people have. There are programs that any idiot can download and use for this purpose (eg. CopyBot). When CopyBot came out about 18 months ago, everyone said it was the end of the world. There are real certainly real issues with protecting content in the face of grids being connected. But just don't labor under the illusion that anything, up to this point, has ever been protected before.
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Maklin Deckard
Disillusioned
Join date: 9 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
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04-05-2008 23:12
From: Chip Midnight So they want to protect their own content, but everyone else's is up for grabs.  I'm not exactly worried about IBM employees reselling my wares in IBM's private grid for profit, but this raises serious questions for the future. They're a business, of course they expect the rules NOT to apply to them same as to us peons. LL needs to roll out a switch to prevent items from being taken to these private grids.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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04-05-2008 23:39
From: Feldspar Millgrove All content in SL, except for scripts, is transmitted to the Viewer. All the prims, objects, and textures. The content is all downloaded to anyone who looks at it, in a form that it can be fully copied. There are no permissions in play. This has always been the case, and was reverse-engineered by people even before the Viewer was open source. Anyone can steal anything they want this way, and a few people have. There are programs that any idiot can download and use for this purpose (eg. CopyBot). When CopyBot came out about 18 months ago, everyone said it was the end of the world. There are real certainly real issues with protecting content in the face of grids being connected. But just don't labor under the illusion that anything, up to this point, has ever been protected before. Believe me, I'm well aware of the realities, but just because those hell bent on ripping off content could do it already doesn't mean that LL should just throw their hands up and make it easy for everyone to do it. I'll never understand the argument that just because something isn't totally secure to begin with that all thoughts of security should be thrown out the window. Just as economies largely rise and fall based on consumer confidence, so a platform like SL will live or die based on the perceptions of those who devote themselves to populating it with content. If the platform is perceived as a paradise for thievery without consequence, who's going to want to expend the effort to create content for it? If LL makes it clear that they're doing what they can, even if it amounts to little more than security through obscurity and not being shy about applying the ban hammer, it creates more confidence in the creative community, benefiting LL, the artists, and the consumer. And this isn't just about the security of content, it's about the integrity of the economy, which will absolutely depend on third party connected grids not minting their own money.
_____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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Oopsie!
04-06-2008 00:01
From: Adam Reuters Apology to IBM and Linden Lab Wed Apr 2, 2008 2:55pm PDT By Adam Reuters
Due to a technical error, I accidentally transmitted a story well in advance of the embargo set by IBM and Linden Lab. My sincerest apologies to all involved. .
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Vittorio Beerbaum
Sexy.Builder Hot.Scripter
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 516
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04-06-2008 06:30
From: Nika Talaj In the future, there will also be "untrusted" grids, with less portability etc. The nature of interoperability with untrusted grids is in a rather hot-and-heavy specifications phase right now; which is to say, early days. I'm worried about these untrusted grids because they would be modified (read hacked) and modified to bypass the permission control system. It really depends on how much control they have on the code, and who will be authorized to connect to the main grid. So it's not a problem of today, but it would be tomorrow...
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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04-06-2008 07:05
The article I read (whether it's accurate or not) claimed IBM is hosting their own sims and is directly connected to LL's infrastructure/the main grid in (much) the same way the Texas hosted sims are directly connected to the grid which would put IBM in a highly trusted position. Last I heard LL never designed the grid to handle untrusted sims, sims are simply authorative so if one of IBM's sims were to claim that "Kitty Barnett just paid Rogue IBMEmployee" L$1 million then it's simply assumed to be true by the rest of the grid and I'll have a very large negative balance  (Illustrative example). Hiding the sims from us should be easy too: LL can assign them a different parent estate ID which would make the "IBM grid/estate" like the "teen grid/estate" where inventory/assets only exist in that grid/estate and can't be transferred/accessed from one to the other. If they can get their own login/presence/asset/inventory servers they would probably be entirely self-sufficient in case SL breaks again, with the benefit of being able to tp to the (broken) main grid whenever they want/need to. From: Sling Trebuchet I understand that there is a farm of LL asset servers, and that an avatar is permanently assigned to a particular server. Each avie is actually "permanently" assigned to an inventory server which references to individual assets on the asset server. In a warehouse (the asset server/cluster) full of crates (the assets), the inventory servers are the cabinets in another building that contain the individual lists of which crates we "own" (our inventory). It's a forced analogy but it gets the point across in the least amount of words  .
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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04-06-2008 08:58
From: Kitty Barnett The article I read (whether it's accurate or not) claimed IBM is hosting their own sims and is directly connected to LL's infrastructure/the main grid in (much) the same way the Texas hosted sims are directly connected to the grid which would put IBM in a highly trusted position. Last I heard LL never designed the grid to handle untrusted sims, sims are simply authorative so if one of IBM's sims were to claim that "Kitty Barnett just paid Rogue IBMEmployee" L$1 million then it's simply assumed to be true by the rest of the grid and I'll have a very large negative balance  (Illustrative example). Hiding the sims from us should be easy too: LL can assign them a different parent estate ID which would make the "IBM grid/estate" like the "teen grid/estate" where inventory/assets only exist in that grid/estate and can't be transferred/accessed from one to the other. If they can get their own login/presence/asset/inventory servers they would probably be entirely self-sufficient in case SL breaks again, with the benefit of being able to tp to the (broken) main grid whenever they want/need to. Each avie is actually "permanently" assigned to an inventory server which references to individual assets on the asset server. In a warehouse (the asset server/cluster) full of crates (the assets), the inventory servers are the cabinets in another building that contain the individual lists of which crates we "own" (our inventory). It's a forced analogy but it gets the point across in the least amount of words  . From: Sling Trebuchet ....... The fixed server that is linked to an avatar is not "an asset server" it's an Inventory database. So IBM would have their own asset servers and their own avatar inventory servers. We seem to have been in agreement on that. I think though that according to the reports quoted, the IBM avatars are intended to have the ability to move freely between the IBM sims and the main grid. This is what gave rise to people's concerns about the protection of IP.
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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04-06-2008 09:10
From: Sling Trebuchet We seem to have been in agreement on that. Eep... I missed that entirely, sowwies  . (I actually did read that later post as well, but it never clicked in my head that you were elaborating on the earlier post  )
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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04-06-2008 09:36
From: Kitty Barnett Eep... I missed that entirely, sowwies  . (I actually did read that later post as well, but it never clicked in my head that you were elaborating on the earlier post  ) NP. I was sort of 'thinking out loud' over coffee after reading the articles referenced. Message boards are really suited to that sort of thing. I should have spent longer thinking quietly and then posted something complete and carved in stone 
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