Why can't scripting be done via a "gui"?

Oh? I suppose you've discovered a genie in a lamp laying around someplace with a few unused wishes?

If LL starts editing chat, I'm out. I am here to interact with *people*, not a gaggle of chatbots.



Well, if not everyone *CAN* do it, why would you expect LL *COULD*?



It's not a RP sim, I didn't "build" it, and I have as much control over it as a janitor has over his assigned building. What happens there is mostly up to the residents.

“We Had To Destroy Ben Tre In Order To Save It”

.. And the number of people who can be involved in turn taking without the turn frequency becoming untenable.



Right, and they needed to make much more effort and have more talent than the first one did. As a result, very few people will be able to actually do it. How do you know that all those thousands visiting Grendel's aren't pounding their desks in frustration at Grendel keeping them down?



You said they would have to wait for their time to be special.



Without sculpties, all the 3D graphics are built within the platform. (Ok, textures aren't.)



Not at all. It depends where the parcel is.



Ah-ah-ah, you're dodging the point with that S. I want an example of a sim where only the owner has access to it. One person, solitary, uno. And that isn't being planned to be opened to the public at a later date.



Noope! EVERY farm automatically gives XP and gold to people who visit it. Here's an idea: why don't you actually _try_ Farmville? It doesn't put you into any "scams" by just adding it as an App, and you can always make a throwaway FB profile.



Right, so all arguments about possibility and practicality are moot. It must be done.

As I already said, they don't need to have the editor be a bot.



Change the nature of positive feedback.



Nonetheless, you have an audience.

If it's not a bot then it's a human. There's no third option.

Right. So the editor could be a human.

OK, you're pulling my leg.

Not at all. It could be an interesting resident service; for a shy or awkward resident to have their chat edited by somebody with greater social ability.

No it doesn't. It is an inherent problem in dealing with people as part of any society, no matter if the "product" supports it or not.



Well, being "special" is a big deal to you, isn't it? Otherwise, why angst so much over it? I don't. I don't care if anyone shows up at my "home" or not. It's nice if they do, and it is nice for me when I go to their place. I don't feel any more "special" either way. Sometimes, I go to Governor Linden's home. Does that make Gov Linden "special"?

You're the one that is turning a simple and harmless activity with no other important significance into "being special". I guess if there is someone who doesn't get many visitors (because said person drives them away), then it would tend to make one feel "special" when someone else resists the urge to throttle said person long enough to visit, but that doesn't apply to the vast majority of the rest of the SL population.



What reason wouldn't you consider a dodge? If it disproves your argument, it is automatically a dodge, isn't it? You want proof? What kind of proof will you accept? Testimonials? Polls? Surveys? Anecdotes? What? There are several people in my sim alone that have private houses that they ONLY ever show up at themselves or with their partners (who also happen to own said land). I doubt my sim is unique in that. That would make me even MORE "special", wouldn't it?



Yep, but not probable.



Nice try, but wrong. Hell, even in your first assertion, the case where everyone in a movie theater 100% enjoys the experience, that makes EACH AND EVERY ONE THERE "special". They all found fulfillment. So you just disproved your own assertion.



It is false, and has nothing to do with "earning" anything.



Umm, what part of "close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears, and ignore anything" of yours NOT "influenced behavior"? Why would they do it otherwise?



So, essentially what you want is a single-player virtual world with AIs to interact with that enables you to be the "most special" person in all the world. Captain of your own Ship, Emperor of your own Empire, King of your own Kingdom?

Why does SL have to become that? Further, why would anyone else (me, for example) want such a silly thing? I can already get all that elsewhere for cheaper or for free.

Beyond the fact that such would be a horrendously hollow experience, what is better about it to make the ones who "churn out" of SL for your assumed reasons want such a thing?



O.o

OK, so who is going to PAY for this human "socially-skilled assistant"? Moreover, how many are going to be needed? How are you going to deal with the fact that people who find out that you are using such a crutch may shun you even still?

That's not even remotely touching on the ridiculousness of such a suggestion.



They do NOT *CREATE* the vast majority of the in-world experience. They may *PRESENT* it, but that is NOT the same thing AT ALL.



Even help a human infant count all the grains of sand in the entire world in a fraction of a second?

Have you ever heard of the term "realism"? It is a close synonym with "practicality".

Their code can't do a lot of things because it is IMPRACTICAL; i.e., NOT REALISTIC.

Their server and code is not some genie in a lamp; it can't solve world peace, or hunger, or cure cancer, or whatever.



Surprisingly, several of them became my friends AFTER they made such statements. People who are honest and candid I respect a lot. People who are suckups and yes-men, not so much.



Perhaps, but that doesn't change my point at all.



Perhaps in the races YOU have participated in. However, they are FAR from the norm, either in RL, OR in SL. If you choose to run those races, that's your choice. No one is forcing you to do so.



As long as they want.



Well, if he/she was waiting solely on MY attention, and ignoring the attention given by the 9 others milling around, then he/she will just have to be patient and wait his/her turn; I can't be everywhere at the same time, ya know.

Besides which, it is a bullshit scenario, as it never has happened. One, maybe two people like that have shown up at the same time. They've gotten their "oohs" and "aahs" from the crowd, and went on their merry way.



I don't know "where you are". I'm not your life's guidance counselor. I can't give you what I don't have. I only know for me. For me, that is do, and keep on doing, because doing is its own reward, and I don't NEED to be "special". If I am, great! If not, *shrug*. I am already as special as I need to be all by myself. I don't need someone else's attention and/or praise to give my life meaning and purpose. It's a nice added bonus, sure, but I still get up in the morning and do what I do whether someone notices or not.

If people are NOT doing something you are doing subconsciously, how would they know to tell you NOT to do something they don't know they are not doing?

See how ridiculous this is going to get?

They wouldn't. They would tell me to do something ELSE, that they are doing, that is mutually exclusive. (Although they might not know that it is mutually exclusive.)

Right. But it's the product's problem that the product's value depends on dealing with people.



It's nothing to do with frequency. It's to do with the fact that if you're visiting one person's place you are visiting another.

You have a presentation *here*. There are people *here*. Plus, when you supposedly "tried" to RP, you had a presentation then, and there were people there, no?



I've given plenty of examples where EVERYONE has been "special", which is the better analogue.



Why would I want to do that? To me, enjoying an experience is "special". I certainly don't take happiness for granted, ya know.



Yes we would, because people found something they liked to do, REGARDLESS of whether had anything to do with "being special".



I'm at my place building a widget. No one is "special".

My landowner partner shows up and builds a widget of his own. No one is "special".

We chat about current day's happenings in SL. Still no one is "special".

A friend of his shows up for a little bit to get away from angsty atention-whores. We chat about the recent snowstorm. Still no one is "special".

This stuff happens all the time every day. This is a day-to-day thing.

No one is being a rock star. No one is getting any more or less attention than anyone else. No one is being the center of attention. No one is dominating the scene, because there is no "scene" to dominate.

All this bullshit is in your head. Let it go.



Only in the messed-up static world you've created in your mind. 10,000 residents don't rove the grid in one mass blob going to one venue at a time. Different people show up at different times. A few here, a few there. In a MUCH shorter time period than you are whining about, everyone should have had a significant percentage of people through their place. It scales, just not in your limited representation of it, which is COMPLETELY unrealistic.



Yeah, I thought you would bring something stupid like that into the argument, that's why I intentionally picked the phrasing of my comment.

Great, so your computer can run 100,000 instances of SL at one time and you can give 100% attention to each and every one. You're freaking amazing!

No, actually, you're just being obtuse and inane.



Then I would quit because that would be about the stupidest thing they could do. My entire customer base would be 99 people? Yeah, that makes good economic sense for me to spend US$195/month on.



You gave me a JOKE of an example. Please tell me that you weren't serious.



So? Run something other than a club. Durrrr.



No they are not. There are only so many ways that a platform can be constructed to accomplish the goals that LL desires to achieve with SL. At some point, people have to be the ones to adapt to the platform, because it simply isn't possible (in any practical sense) for the platform to adapt to the people.

Humans have the ability to adapt their environment to them, to be sure, but we never lost the ability to adapt to the environment, either. For those parts of the environment we can't change, we either adapt, move, or die. For me, I choose one of the first two. You're free to choose any of them you find most appropriate for your needs.



There is nothing in the definition of the word sabotage which precludes a self-referential use. Actually learn to use the dictionary before making such ridiculous statements.



Oh, how fulfilling that would be! Why don't you just have someone else step in and live your life for you too, while you are at it? Why bother with all that messy life stuff when you can get someone else to do it all for you?! My god, what a feature! It would be soooo cheap, too! Someone else does all the hard back-breaking work, and I get to reap all the benefits!

You cannot possibly be serious.



Or I am not, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

Ummm.. I thought the whole point was to make SL BETTER, not WORSE?

yeahhhhhhh.......

And people here only respond to messages of this type, and they respond in a way that invites me to continue posting them, while saying (as you did above) that they do not care about anything else I do.

As for my attempt to RP, no, there was no-one there. That's why the attempt failed.



Mr. Incredible: "Everybody's special."
Dash: "That's just another way of saying no-one is."



I am referring to you, the person, being special; not your experience.



Then why are so many of them, based on their profiles, "owner of X" or "maker of Y" or "featured dancer at Z"?



You are, because you believe you're good enough to build a widget.

Plus, if you have any everyday "happenings" in SL, you're special in some group or other.



Have you ever even visited 1000 places in SL?



But it's LL's fault there's no SecondLife.exe -multiple -summarize.



Tier would be lower, in part due to all of the extra people making lower quality dragon avs for their blocks.



If there was a chat editing service, or a "force me to.." menu in SL, I would be SO there. Seriously. Anything that would break my experience of the last couple years. You live it and then tell me you wouldn't be desperate to escape.



Then the people who didn't have to adapt are "special".



And if that were true then LL would have even more power because every "unchangable thing about the environment" is a line of code on their server.





By my dictionary sabotage requires opposition and deception.



Why not? It wouldn't be fulfilling but it would be better than things are now. If people are going to reject me because of some mysterious unidentifyable skill I lack then what other choice do I have?

Oh, and chatting and building is "back breaking work" now?

Even if you consider it ridiculous, it still takes the argument out of the "can't" arena and into the "balance of tradeoffs" arena.

Which doesn't happen anyplace except in a math-challenged mind.



No, they didn't, and they don't.



Most certainly the ones who will never bother to try because they believe such nonsense.



Because it would be stupid and nonsensical for it to be so?



No, YOU said that. I said they have to wait their turn for my *personal* attention. If they only feel "special" from my *personal* attention, then that's their own problem.



Animations aren't. Sounds aren't.



Which changes nothing of what I said.



What difference does that make? If two people are working on a sim for their own personal enjoyment, what difference does that make to the point? Even if I give you the name of a private sim, what proof would that give you? You won't be able to teleport to it, and it doesn't appear on the map. I would also have to ask permission to divulge it, and to be honest, this discussion isn't important enough for me to make that kind of request. You'll just have to take my word for it, I am afraid. If you can't, then you can show up at Jack Linden's office hours and ask Jack how many private no-access sims there are on the grid.



Do you know what "gold/XP farming" is?

No, I am not interested in what amounts to online tic-tac-toe, thanks.



They aren't "moot" at all. It CAN'T be done if there's no practical business case to be made for it. So far, you've made about the most IMpractical cases possible.

It doesn't matter; if I found out I was conversing with some Linden, rather than the person in my presence, I would likely shun and ostracize such a person from then on out for that reason alone. I am not dealing with that person, I am dealing with the "social translator"; if I find that I like the social translator, it does not follow that I will like the actual person being translated. As such, it is a deception, and I will not appreciate it one bit.

You think being ostracized for being socially inept is bad, just try implementing that silly plan and see how fast and severe the response will be when people find out what is happening.



You didn't answer the question.



It isn't "my" audience; I don't "perform" for them. I get kudos occasionally, but not getting them doesn't deter me from my responsibilities.

It isn't an "audience" any more than a bunch of people at the store are an "audience" when I am out shopping.

People don't need a crutch, they need exercise.

I still haven't heard from you who is going to PAY for those humans to be crutches for the socially inept.

Once you are an adult, "fixing" social skills is very hard. Other adults will not tolerate you not having them already, and constantly being on the margin of a group's tolerance is not a good position to practise.



The person or people whose chat they are editing.

How would they know what is mutually exclusive with something that you don't know you are doing and, thus, they don't know you are doing?

You keep looking for people to tell you what to do. The problem is, people HAVE told you what what you CAN do, and all you do is make a bajillion excuses for not doing it. Fine then, don't do anything. Continue to suffer with your neuroses. No one can help you if you aren't willing to help yourself first.

I wouldn't hold out much hope that LL is going to hire someone to be your "social crutch", since I severely doubt that there are enough people in a situation who would make use of it to justify the cost and the aggravation.

At any rate, I think the thread has been derailed enough by this nonsense, and am out of it at this point.

ETA: Just had to respond to this when I got to the end:



As an adult, I am a LOT more tolerant of someone who is inept and trying versus someone who wallows in their own self-pity and does little but drag everyone else down to their level.



Great! When you can afford to pay thousands of dollars per year for your own personal "social worker" to edit your chat for you to make you appear to be something you aren't (and thus give you no incentive to bother improving yourself), let LL know; I am sure they'll be happy to take your money. Given LL's track record, I am sure they will do a fine job of it, too!

That's all! Have fun, folks!

Still, there would at least be a chance you would not notice. Rather than you certainly shunning and ostracising them for being them.

It isn't a deception by the way: nobody has ever told or promised you that avatar chat in SL is relayed verbatim. You assume it is by analogue with RL, but that's purely your assumption.






It isn't just "kudos" I'm talking about.

It isn't an "audience" any more than a bunch of people at the store are an "audience" when I am out shopping.[/QUOTE]

Because if they are telling me everything, they would tell me.. well, everything.



Tell me what I can do to help myself. But as a detailed "next action", GTD style.



Ah, the triumphant exit! You know, nothing tells me that all you've said has been platitudes than when your exit is triumphant rather than regretful.

If you are right and I am wrong, I am sure to lose the argument if you see it through. I wonder if you want to prevent that happening?

and I thought I was tenacious...

Fixed it for ya.

*Looks around.*

Anybody seen my thread? I thought I left it in here.