Less "Virtual" - More "Real"

LOL, one of the great fun quirky sides of SL

I love stirring with a wooden spoon. Lemme see - oh yeah, a serious and true answer to a comment made earlier .. crappy internet services in far flung places? - No, in truth. I get fantastic service where I am and I DON'T always live in a cosmopolitan area (a reply to a page one comment). I actually have a place I retreat to not far from Arctic circle.
Are all people interesting? No. I'll maintain that. To be fair, it's possible I have boring / aggravating traits in my real personality. I doubt if more than a few would be interested in my REAL knowledge base. (Although I must say, I have never been called "boring" or "uninteresting". In fact, I freely admit many people (in real or otherwise) might find me absolutely horrible to know. I think we have to allow our imaginations to work in sl - our real lives should never enter this world.
Okay, for some it may be okay (after all, we gotta allow for ALL personalities) but I prefer being more of an enigma (hard to find and a chameleon). In my line of work I have to be tough, hard and uncompromising. It's nice to be a chameleon, instead.
Reality in my case IS hard to restrain from creeping in to this place since my job impacts my time here but never to an extent that I feel compromised.
Maybe reason why I think SL fails in many ways is because we CAN'T express our real selves to each other. If I don't "see" you real face, I can't "read" you. I have tried on many occasions to explain some of my life but I think the "live and let live" faction are more inclined to shoot people down when honesty raises its ugly head.
Let's NOT sing Kumbaya and hug each other. And hey, I haven't got MY Thompson and Morgan catalogue yet.
There, any takers on these comments?

Then be an anonymous chameleon and leave others who wish to reveal more and spend time with those that see them as more than some soulless computer generated character provided for someone's amusment. SL can be many things for many people.

Couldn't agree more. One of the problems I have with those who treat SL like a dating service is that they tend to show a lack of respect for their "potential future RL partner" while digging/prodding/mining them for RL info. I've met so many of these people that not only get pissy, but get down right mad because "how dare I not freely answer any question they might have about my RL?!?!" Yes, I know.. it's not the MySpace way, but then SL isn't MySpace, is it?
I couldn't count the times I've had to tell someone that I'm not available in RL, that SL is my escape, and that I purposely keep the two seperate... only to have that person throw RL photos at me, grill me with rude questions, accuse me of hiding something, attack my views of SL, or just flat out insult me.

Funnily enough, I agree with much of what Jig says. 'My' SL is a place of fantasy and experiment, and I am disillusioned when I see that chipped away day by day as yet another shopping mall goes up, another resident wants to AR anyone who goes near ‘their’ property, or a little more freedom of expression is condemned or eroded.

Yes, it IS achingly sad the ways in which people try to make this game a reality. Incidentally, I believe I fit the definition of being qualified to say that, having ‘lived a life’ rather fully - probably about 75% of it, if I’m lucky.

This is certainly not a judgment on anyone wanting to roleplay a life they might yearn to experience through the medium of SL - on the contrary, that's a highly creative way to use the medium. Hell, I’m all kinds of creature I couldn’t possibly be in RL, and the virtual freedom a person with a disability can have in-world, for example, is priceless.

Nor is it a condemnation of the ‘supercharged chatroom’ view of SL, although it’s about as far removed as possible from how I want to experience SL. But being a ‘live and let live’ kind of a person, I couldn’t possibly say that this way of using of SL is less valid than any other.

The way I interpret what Jig’s getting at is that we fail miserably to use the potential of SL when we refuse to leave a heap of RL baggage at the internet connection. We have this amazing opportunity to explore a world free of petty prejudices and cumbersome rules, and to experiment with new and perhaps better ways of interaction. Yet again and again, we try to make great swathes of it as much like RL as possible, in attitude and design, right down the most desirable real estate being that old favourite, waterfront. (Hmm - perhaps that does fall into the category of fantasy with the onset of global warming...)

The chatroom model only contributes to the problem, since by its very nature it diminishes the capacity for people to step outside their RL selves, particularly when voice is used. However, Jig talks about ‘pushing the envelope of connection’, and to seriously attempt this in the context of human communication, we need to free ourselves from the fetters of RL mores to give ourselves half a chance.

Yes, our capacity to step outside our RL selves is limited, but we could try. With luck, we could indeed find that we could bring changed attitudes into the 'real' world. Then again, perhaps all we’d discover is that sadly we humans don’t have the breadth of imagination we like to think we have.

SL would be a much lesser place for me without the people who allow me to know them as real world people and not just as play acted fabrications. Nothing against roleplayers, but I'd much rather get to know people who aren't here to reinvent themselves and that are comfortable talking about their real lives and who they really are. After all, if I get to know you, but that "you" is just an SL invention, then I really don't know you at all, do I? There's no "right way" to use Second Life and it has always been full of both roleplayers and those who use SL as an extension of the real world. Both perspectives are legitimate, and both will continue to coexist here.

It's true that in SL we don't have the opportunity to read the face and body language of others.
Look on that as a good thing.
We have to develop new abilities for a virtual world.
A blind person can not see, but they can be very perceptive. They normally have to tune up other senses.

It could be that in RL we are prejudiced against (and for) others by what we see in the physical world. We can throw away opportunities to really meet interesting people.
SL can remove much prejudice, leaving us to deal with the mind of the person.
Physical attractiveness in SL is simply a leveller. Nothing more. It's not 'a lie'. It's just an avoidance of a distraction.
There is a problem though, that some people are seduced by the superficiality of the 3D world. That's a route to unhappiness.


I accept everyone in SL at face value. I don't assume that their avatar or whatever is in their profile is definitive about their RL. I don't disbelieve it in an active way. I simply don't assume that it is real, and that does not bother me. I'll wait.
I measure people by the way I see them behaving towards others.



Going back a bit to a question "Is there something that we can take from SL back into RL?"
Yes. We can learn not to rush to judge by appearances.
Think of people's RL bodies and backgrounds as things they were given in Orientation Island and have not yet customised to a great extent

It's just sad that there are those on both sides who won't accept the other side's view. If you meet someone who isn't looking for the same thing, then just politely say "Nice to have met you" and walk away. No need to insult, demean, badger or accuse people.

Second Life is a cheaters guide to lucid dreaming. You can be whatever you want inside it as long as you follow certain rules determined by code. And you can bring as much or as little of your real life into it as you desire. You can paint and live out your dreams, dream with others consciously aware or you can use it like the telephone. Its your decision. Drawing lines and labelling what sl should be is kinda useless. Very similiar to trying to tell people in rl why they are on the planet and what their purpose is. And just like rl its up to you to decide what path you want to take. What doors you open. Which ones you keep locked. There are things that are possible both in lucid dreams and sl that are not practical or even desirable in rl. But thats not always the case. its probably easier to express certain parts of your personality and spirit here then in rl where so many rules and restrictions apply for a variety of reasons. Youll never come to an agreement about what sl is for. Every person exists with their own purpose and level of growth. And that is completely unique to each of us. So then the best advice you can ever have on it is to communicate what you want on a person to person basis without making assumptions about whats expected. Take responsibility for the connections you make or do not make with others. And if you dont care about all that, dont desire anything from anyone, do your own thing and never give it another thought. its really question of consciousness and immersion.

Thanks! I am not the most articulate of characters and this comment says it better and much more politer than I could have done!

I completely agree. I have nothing against people who are just here to roleplay. A witty, fun, creative person is always a joy, regardless of their particular idiom. It's just that if there's a wall between SL and the real world it seems like a missed opportunity to me. I would guess it's more complicated for people who are into the sexual or dating side of SL as an escape from their real world relationships and obligations. Then compartmentalizing seems sensible and necessary. But, since I'm not capable of that kind of compartmentalizing (even if I wanted to), it's a foreign way of thinking to me. I'm flattered when people are interested in the person behind the avatar.

i wouldnt want to know in rl many of the people i meet in sl. if its an important relationship that has the ability to transcend this world then i will make an effort to get to know someone OOC. But the majority of people in sl i meet will never know me that way.

Well if you don't find other people interesting then maybe you think to highly of your self.

I find everyone I meet very interesting, however I do not want to make many of those people personal friends. I find the more people I know in RL the more problems I have to deal with. I hardly have time to deal with my own problems let alone everyone else's also. One reason I like SL, it wasn't so personal. Dealing with people online is a lot easier. I find people make up a lot of their problems for attention in SL but it is what it is.

And just for the record I do have a real RL photo in my SL profile and don't hide my RL. Not because I don't like the RP but more because I have very little imagination for such. I respect the RP'ers and find them very interesting also.

In my opinion their role played characters are in fact an extension of the RL person. Just a creative experimental side. They did come up with the character so it most certainly is apart of themselfs in RL.

Oryx, thanks for summing it up so nicely

For me, SL has been both about fantasy and reality. Initially, I took it as a fantasy based situation. But, as time has gone on, and I get to know certain people better I find that I am more prone to want to know more about them in a real way. Most especially those I've met here in the Forum, where our personal lives slip in more. Does that mean I have forsaken the fantasy? No. I still enjoy dressing up at times, running my Alt, who's personality is far different from my main Av, discovering that I can visit the World of Dune, slay a dragon, be a winter pixie, a mermaid, whatever my heart desires that I always dreamed.

Role playing is fantastic - but; so is being myself, and sharing my soul , thoughts and time, with loved one I have met who matter to me in ways that are as meaningful as my RL relationships.

Everyone has different reasons for being here, I, try hard not to judge anyone based on their appearance, or what they choose to make their life here about Even in RL, I'm pretty much the same. Does it really matter who is beneath the Av? Only thing that matters is; do you connect, have rapport, want to spend time with them, get to know them better?

Even if I will never meet them in RL, they are still real people and can become real friends. That aspect is similar to having a penpal in a different area of the world - only instead of writing, I chat with them here.

A lot of the people that I meet, SL and RL, I don't want to become best friends with, but that doesn't mean that they have nothing interesting to say. A good many of them still add to my life in a positive way. It is always fun and sometimes educational to listen to other viewpoints on things, or to learn about other cultures directly from someone rather than reading it in a book.

Hi
Much of this thread is focused on the chat-room like aspect of SL. And also things like artistic expression, fantasy and art was mentioned.
We can't forget that many people, in their achingly sad state (rolls eyes) come to SL to check out the weird and wonderful. And in doing so, you could meet people who love to look at these same things, so there is your social aspect. (as opposed to gyrating half-naked in a pub, which of course can be fun, too)

I was checking out Black Swan, which is absolutely fabulous on many levels, and I was the only person there! How nice it would have been to hook up with someone to check it out together - they "hey, look at this thing" part of exploring which I enjoy, to share the experience and then part ways (or not).

I worry that, as long as people spend all their time in the Freebie dungeon or riding the pose balls, that the creative folks among us will simply stop creating such wonderful zones and end up building malls.

The other week I met someone with MS in a mall and got chatting. Not a very friendly personality BUT I tried to be as friendly as poss to him. But I think it was "achingly sad" to hear his story.
I guess I use sl to crash out of real world for a half hour or so when I need to.
One thing I will say, at least we are getting a serious discussion here and not the usual mundane one-liners.

I have to agree. I personally can not take my rl 100% out of SL, and I enjoy meeting people that share the same interests I have. It fun to talk to someone on the other side of the world, and its fun to see how that person dresses their avatar and interacts with others.
And that you can't get in normal chat rooms. It gives you an insight to their inner beings, so you see an avatar as an escort, you can assume the might be repressed sexually and are using this SL game to act out fantasy, which is cool! Or you see vampires and werewolves and you can assume there is a fascination with gothic stories and they too want to act out fantasy... Then you see the super serious I want to make money types and they basicly use SL for making money ant not much else... Also people trying to get over shyness issues (me me me me) and use the game to try to improve social skills in situations that if it goes wrong they can just TP out.... perfect. But its also a way for bullies to pick on others too... So all the pleasure will bring some pain.

It's also fun to snuggle your cartoons on a rug, kick back and watch a movie together in SL, or take a boat ride, TP to live shows with someone you share an interest with..


As far as this being a place to find a sig. other.. or RL partner this is a perfect venue for it and I think sometimes you can find an attraction to a person when you least expect it, or you develope a relationship that was friendly into something more over time..... As long as you know what the other person is about, keeping it SL /Rl or keeping it real and true you can adapt and take the situation as you should...

I think this is a great place to get to know someone for dating in rl.. The only problem is don't expect the rl person to always look like their sl cartoon... And strangly enough, as in rl the attractiveness of the cartooon is usually what captures our attention.

I don't think "virtual" has to mean not allowing your true self to shine through.. There is nothing wrong with fantasy, we all enjoy it. But there is nothing wrong with allowing the freeself to be a part of it..

How many of you out there wish you could really TP into SL and live there? I imagine alot.
I love this game even with all its quarks and downtime and I hope to see it progress and grow, it's too good of a idea and to see it lose its diversity would be a shame.

So go virtual or go real life, doesn't matter just have fun and respect others.

The point is, if someone in a wheelchair wants to use his time in SL walking, flying, dancing, etc, instead of being a dragon or building some fantastical sim, it's HIS use of SL. He has every right to use it as he likes. He doesn't HAVE to be in it for creativity or surrealism. He could just be enjoying the fact that as an avatar, he has no physical restraints on his body.

Pulling RL into SL is his way of acting out a fantasy. For most of us, it's every day stuff. For him, it's impossible. That, to me, is not achingly sad. It's amazing and wonderful.

QFT


For lots of us, due to our medical limitations, this is the only social outlet we have. So yes, we are ourselves here, or some semblance there of.

Weird. How is being a monkey less "lying" than being an attractive human? I don't see either as lying. It's pixels, be the pixels that give you most pleasure!

And aren't you being just a little disingenuous, 2k? We in the U.S. live in a culture that worships youth and attractiveness. Perhaps it is different where you live (now I'M being disingenuous lol!), but it makes perfect sense to me if someone who has outgrown their youth wishes to recapture it. Or if someone with a genetic malformation wants to experience attractiveness. Or ... god one could go on forever with the ways that SL frees people from their RL selves.

You're entitled to say you want more people being 'real' in SL, 2k, but don't be amazed if it doesn't happen! Personally, I think being free to be something different from oneself is what SL is all about. I'm looking for abstract avatars myself, nowadays ...

"Your World, Your Imagination" There are as many SL's as there are people.

Why do you assume all sexy fem avies are overweight 40 yr olds?
Is that what you see looking around in your RL?
Can't speak for the guys, but!
maybe we! still like playing w/ our Barbies, [I had them all growing up and was completely anal about preserving them.]
aren't all in our 40s and the opposite of overweight,
in my case due to being ill, but so what if they are,
I do appreciate you being honest about your own RL physical self, most ppls making this pt are exactly the epitome of what they are loathing on, but roam around Adonis'
hmm even my ugly avies are beautiful and I see my share of norm-ed residents.
And they are still quite the characters!
A shape maker made me one and I still got hit on/lusted after, so pft.
If I am a pale the reg skins say sideways stuff, if I am skin or a wolf or an abstract some one! always has something! to say sometimes negatives, can't win, sop I just enjoy myself, isn't that the point?

Maybe I don't fully understand the OPs' thoughts, the influx of corp sims, FBI, media hysterias, ethics, the, I almost want to say overwhelming clueless new joiners, griefers, VAT, LL itself etc, invited or invading influences?
With all this colliding there's bound to be as many negatives as positives,
but have to disagree w/ the OP as I still see some of the aspects the OP is suggesting do! exsist.
I wasn't around when SL began, but coming up on a 2nd yr rez date,
I find myself still always learning.
And know or have known ppls that visit SL completely immersed in their own expanding realities w/e they might be [too many sub cultures to list, some yah sure w/ welcome mats and toilet paper holders, some not] or observed equally enthused creators known and unknown fully experimenting w/ the tools provided and again isn't that the pt?

*rable, ramble* Just my own aggressive passive thoughts.
btw while some of my friends and onlookers will disagree, I am completely uninteresting.
Not! ... am just very exclusive, very few ppls get to meet meta me.

But what about the people around us?. Shouldn't we respect their preferences?. Or is it okay to treat people like they're just characters in our fantasy?.

For example, if a bored housewife is wanting some romance back in her life then wouldn't it be selfish of her to be deliberately going around trying to get romantically involved with people while withholding her marital status?.

Depends. If the people she is running around with are of like mind, and they are just looking for some inworld fun, and have no intentions of carrying it out to RL, then it really is immaterial. It all depends on everyone's approach.

Well this was bound to happen, and it wil be more so if the near future. Pretty much, after Linden World was scrapped as a fighting game, the very direction you just described became the plan for it's future!

The reason there is so much RL economic interest in LL and SL ISN'T...because of SL the way it stand today...but because they expect us to do just what you have said, Jig. This is "SUPPOSED" to take that direction, and surpass what we even imagine today.

When we think "internet" year from now...they want our mind to conjure up platforms like SL before anything else. These companies don't get involved year after year just to waste money.

They are taking thier time because it will take a while for them to gradually indoctrinate this as the "new internet", without the majority laughing at the notion. That should take a little while.

Many companies are still working to create a STANDARD protocol (think "http://", so this can be expanded, without a monopoly company controlling it. This (they hope) will cause I technological communication "revolution" that will leave the earliest SERIOUS investors, at a VAST advantage.