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Can You Trademark Someone's Island Name And Then Shut Them Down? |
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OWK Crazyboi
OWK Villager
Join date: 7 Jan 2009
Posts: 4
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01-07-2009 09:56
Our concern was not world dominance over the BDSM community. Once the OWKtm popped up over our heads we felt like company stooges. If this is the was the way she was going to run her empire we did not want any part of it. That was only a handful of us. And we have developed quite a lovely sim out of the ashes of what was. We are financially stable because many Mistresses gave up their opensims and moved here to pay rent and the stores are almost all fully rented. We have time to develop the community and group list back to what it was - with people and Managers that will not undermine the project as the failed senate did.
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 OWK Village FemDom Nation: Teleport to the courtyard for mature & BDSM shopping and activities |
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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01-10-2009 15:20
Yesterday she had a island she owns name changed to OWK. I hope that this appropriation of michaal's project will be the end of the madness. Still waiting for thsi false DMCA claim she was making to Linden Lab in order to shut down OWK Village Island.
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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The Answer is YES! Someone CAN trademark your island name and shut you down
03-07-2009 14:29
According to Linden Lab anyway. Linden Lab sent me a letter saying 'shayna' had the Trademark to OWK. Linden Lab even claimed I was using the OWK images (I created all my own textures in December 200
 . And even though Linden Lab setup our island (OWK Village) at the beginning of 2008 and she applied for (and has not received yet) a trademark in America for OWK, Linden Lab says they respect the November 2008 trademark application and has foreceable changed the name of our island and all of our groups. I tried to make the name 'Obscure Women QueenDom' for our groups. Linden Lab's mystery employee said that we cannot name our groups anything that starts with a "O", "W" or "K" !) Live help told me they had the trademark since 1996. I explained to them that someone in the Czech Republic holds that trademark. And that is not this American who applied for it in America in 2008. Then they say they won a court order against us and Linden Lab was complying. I did not know you could win a court order against a avatar since they do not know our names and we never received anything. Then they said there was no court order but it was a DMCA, I asked for the DMCA number. No DMCA number available according to Linden Lab. Then they said hire a lawyer if I want any answers. LL just sent me the "you-cannot-use-three-letters-in-the-alphabet" response to another name I chose. I sent them this: My lawyer says that you cannot tell me that I cannot use words that start with a "O" or a "W" in my groups or server name. Thats utter nonsense. I changed the last word in our name to a "Q" and that should be sufficient. 'Shayna' applied for a trademark for a real life resort - not online role playing. And she applied for this in Nov 2008. This server OWK Village has been on the Linden Lab server for over a year - as an online roleplay community. It is quite sad that after spending thousands of dollars in Second Life that I had to retain a lawyer to send a demand letter and then put the evidence in front of a judge just to get what we paid for in the first place. OWK.com is registered to people in Czech republic since 1997, The name Other World Kingdom is Czech-owned since 1996. Protect their trademark and have 'Shayna' change her new sim name. So our lawyer will send Linden Lab and 'Shanya' the demand letter Monday. It was worth the retainer to see what reason they feel 'Shayna' has a valid claim to shut down a group that existed before her trademark application, that has a name similar to-but not identical to-the one she is hi-jacking from the Czech Republic and is not in the business of resorts and hotels as her trademark application states is her business. Here is the letter we received from [email]remove@lindenlab.com[/email] Linden Lab has received notification from counsel for Other World Kingdom (OWK), that you have infringed its trademark and copyright rights in the Second Life environment. In particular, OWK has complained about your use of the OWK name, designs, artwork, and textures. The notification identified the following allegedly infringing work(s): Description of Work(s) : Wedding in a Box – Announcement OWK Village Membership Wedding in a Box – Announcement OWK Village Event Flagpole with flag OWK Horizontal Flag OWK Village Submissive Second Life Group Named: OWK Village Community Team Location of Work(s): OWK Village (141,196,23) OWK Village (135,182,26) OWK Village ( 139,221,23) OWK Village (114,183,23) OWK Village (101,233,29) OWK Village ( 108,238,26) Linden Lab respects the rights of both Second Life residents and trademark owners. Accordingly, we ask that you discontinue use of “OWK” in the Second Life environment. Please remove it from the locations Identified above and all other locations, including your inventory. If you do not do so within two days, please be aware that Linden Lab intends to do so. Please also provide us with a new non-infringing name for the Second Life group named “OWK Village Community Team” within 48 hours. If you do not do so, Linden Lab will do so and will disable your Second Life group until we have received a non-infringing name from you. Please direct any future communications regarding this matter to counsel for OWK: Sincerely, Linden Lab I will never understand why Linden Lab likes to get involved in all of this negative publicity. We already submitted press releases regarding this outrage to online legal blogs and are answering questions regarding this illegal claim. Updates will be available after some response from the demand letter. |
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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03-07-2009 16:04
If your attorney is worth his retainer, the first thing he'd do is advise you to stop discussing this situation and legal matters relating to it on this or any other online forum or blog. Anything you post on the internet can be used against you in court by your opponent.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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03-07-2009 16:39
I will never understand why Linden Lab likes to get involved in all of this negative publicity. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Zolen Giano
Free the Shmeats!
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 146
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03-07-2009 16:49
Damed the lawyers!
You know how they work don't you? Whoever can build the biggest pile of bullshit wins. And trust me, those silver plated shovels they use don't come cheap. |
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
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03-07-2009 17:28
Wow. Unbelievable. This is clear abuse of DMCA & trademark law combined with what appears to be a total (and possibly deliberate) misunderstanding of both by LL. The different classification for the mark (application phase only) should be a dead flat no-brainer.
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 Buh-bye forums, it's been good ta know ya. |
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Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
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03-07-2009 17:48
It'll sure be interesting to see how this whole mess pans out.
Based on what little I have seen on this, this is one really convoluted mess! It sounds to me like two RL entities who may or may not have come to terms with each other, and a number of SL-only entities who see things very differently. It's making my brain hurt just trying to figure it all out! _____________________
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut. Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world. |
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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03-07-2009 20:32
I predict a long period of legal wrangling simply to decide where legal jurisdiction resides... in the U.S., in the Czech Republic, or in the OWK micronation.
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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03-07-2009 21:04
If your attorney is worth his retainer, the first thing he'd do is advise you to stop discussing this situation and legal matters relating to it on this or any other online forum or blog. Anything you post on the internet can be used against you in court by your opponent. I predict a long period of legal wrangling simply to decide where legal jurisdiction resides... in the U.S., in the Czech Republic, or in the OWK micronation. so either 'Shayna' sent LL false information or LL just did what they wanted to do and damn the laws. But it already looks like LL's legal department was out to lunch when some clerk sent out these nonsense removal letters. Sadly, when LL makes an error they compound it by never admitting wrong, never correcting the problem civilly or admitting that they were wrong at all. Let us see who is left standing after the music stops. |
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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03-08-2009 06:17
The funny part is that the Czech owners of OWK have absolutely nothing to do with it. Trademarks are country-specific. And the Czech people have not filed any claims at all. When SL Live Help told me 'Shayna' had her OWK trademark since 996 I could only assume that she may have sent in evidence of the Czech Trademark and pretended it was hers ('Shayna' applied for a trademark in the US in November 2008 and has yet to be granted it). But wasn't the original island owner basing his claim on the use of OWK's name and logo inside SL on the fact that the Czech OWK was aware of it and had given RL permission for him to do so? It seems to me they are going to become involved in this whether they like it or not since essentially this a case of two people each claiming the rights to use their name. so either 'Shayna' sent LL false information or LL just did what they wanted to do and damn the laws. But it already looks like LL's legal department was out to lunch when some clerk sent out these nonsense removal letters. Sadly, when LL makes an error they compound it by never admitting wrong, never correcting the problem civilly or admitting that they were wrong at all. Let us see who is left standing after the music stops. I don't think LL's "legal department" does anything but send out the form letter when they receive a DMCA claim. They certainly don't investigate the validity of the claims. It's guilty until proven innocent, and the burden of proving the claim is fraudulent falls entirely upon the party on the receiving end. If you were not even given the option of filing a counter-notice, it sounds like RL legal proceedings are indeed the next step. |
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Marcel Flatley
Sampireun Design
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,032
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03-08-2009 07:09
That is what you get when women behave against their submissive nature... drama
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New in town: Floating furniture!
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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03-08-2009 09:36
But wasn't the original island owner basing his claim on the use of OWK's name and logo inside SL on the fact that the Czech OWK was aware of it and had given RL permission for him to do so? It seems to me they are going to become involved in this whether they like it or not since essentially this a case of two people each claiming the rights to use their name. As I said; trademark is country-specific. The Czech OWK does not have a world-wide trademark (they aren't Pepsi Co.) and 'shayna' knew that. That is why she was clear to trademark their name in the United States without repercussions. She definintely showed audacity when she told Linden Lab to shut us down to protect her trademark application even though we have been on the grid for a year. And Linden Lab could just make belive a DMCA was filed and do whatever they wanted to us. Their response to the demands letter should shed some light on their motivation. I spoke to four lawyers in four states and a representative from the San Francisco Bar Association. After they looked into the trademarks they all agreed that 'shayna's' case is nonsense and Linden Lab did the wrong thing. Now we need to rectify the problem. If Linden Lab is saying that anyone can come along, like your project, request a name similar to yours as a trademark and then shut you down - then we all just need to move over to the 'The end of Second Life' thread. I don't think LL's "legal department" does anything but send out the form letter when they receive a DMCA claim. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-08-2009 11:44
If the DMCA wasn't involved, then Linden Labs isn't even a party to the dispute, are they?
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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03-08-2009 12:16
If the DMCA wasn't involved, then Linden Labs isn't even a party to the dispute, are they? After Linden Lab and 'shayan's' lawyer reply to the demand letter we will see if LL voluntarily gives us our name back or they need a judge to tell them to do it. |
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
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03-08-2009 14:14
If what you're saying is accurate, Morgen, I am more appalled at Linden Lab than I ever have been before. What this shayna person did was a goddam joke, and LL is complying with it?
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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03-08-2009 14:24
According to Linden Lab anyway. Linden Lab sent me a letter saying 'shayna' had the Trademark to OWK. Linden Lab even claimed I was using the OWK images (I created all my own textures in December 200 . And even though Linden Lab setup our island (OWK Village) at the beginning of 2008 and she applied for (and has not received yet) a trademark in America for OWK, Linden Lab says they respect the November 2008 trademark application and has foreceable changed the name of our island and all of our groups. I tried to make the name 'Obscure Women QueenDom' for our groups. Linden Lab's mystery employee said that we cannot name our groups anything that starts with a "O", "W" or "K"!) Live help told me they had the trademark since 1996. I explained to them that someone in the Czech Republic holds that trademark. And that is not this American who applied for it in America in 2008. Then they say they won a court order against us and Linden Lab was complying. I did not know you could win a court order against a avatar since they do not know our names and we never received anything. Then they said there was no court order but it was a DMCA, I asked for the DMCA number. No DMCA number available according to Linden Lab. Then they said hire a lawyer if I want any answers. LL just sent me the "you-cannot-use-three-letters-in-the-alphabet" response to another name I chose. I sent them this: I do not expect a reply. So our lawyer will send Linden Lab and 'Shanya' the demand letter Monday. It was worth the retainer to see what reason they feel 'Shayna' has a valid claim to shut down a group that existed before her trademark application, that has a name similar to-but not identical to-the one she is hi-jacking from the Czech Republic and is not in the business of resorts and hotels as her trademark application states is her business. Here is the letter we received from [email]remove@lindenlab.com[/email] I will never understand why Linden Lab likes to get involved in all of this negative publicity. We already submitted press releases regarding this outrage to online legal blogs and are answering questions regarding this illegal claim. Updates will be available after some response from the demand letter. This is just beyond belief. _____________________
I have no signature,
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
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03-08-2009 15:49
The only possible excuse I can see for LL is if they felt there was some kind of abandonment of the mark by selling the sim. Still stupid because even the sale of an asset (the sim) does not constitute abandonment of the related IP without a formal agreement otherwise. Just cuz I buy an iPod, I can't start using the iPod trademark as mine.
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Buh-bye forums, it's been good ta know ya. |
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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03-08-2009 17:22
If what you're saying is accurate, Morgen, I am more appalled at Linden Lab than I ever have been before. What this shayna person did was a goddam joke, and LL is complying with it? Linden Lab has even gone so far to assist 'shayna' by freezing all of our group charter statements after removing a link to this forum from them. Linden Lab re-wrote our charter descriptions and froze them so we cannot edit them in any way. Of course now all of the group-owned items in the sim no longer respond to group members because of the name changes. We had to abandon all parcels on the island, create new groups and re-deed them all. Then buy all the group items back from the dead groups, deed them to the new groups and offer the new group to all the members. I don't suspect this forum thread will last very much longer here. |
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Vicious Enigma
Registered User
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
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03-10-2009 09:54
I agree that she could have only sent in false information to DMCA to grant her the right to say OWK is hers and she has been using it since May 2008. It costs millions of dollars to create a commercial resort in the Unites States. And she wants one based on deviant sexual practices. I wonder what state she plans on putting that in and where these millionaire investors are coming from. It all seems like a pipe dream to me.
And it is not even her pipe dream. She took it from the original people because they could not afford to hire international lawyers and stop her. The mistake she made was to serve a questionable DMCA claim on the one other American involved. Now it is a case that will go before American court. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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03-10-2009 12:52
Not to nitpick, but a Patent attorney is not the same. -- rest of post deleted, because I hadn't read far enough in the thread -- |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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03-10-2009 13:39
Not to nitpick, but "patent attorney" is a phrase commonly used to mean "Patent, Trademark, and Copyright attorney". They also handle other IP issues, including trade dress and service marks. -- rest of post deleted, because I hadn't read far enough in the thread -- I make the distinction because it is important to stop spreading misinformation, so stop conflating the three terms when they are very distinct things. Anyway, back on topic: what has gone on is insane. The registration of the mark can be challenged in the US and the Czech OWK doesn't have to do a thing. For the purposes of this discussion, the existence of the Czech OWK is a red herring. Federal trademark applications can be challenged, and I imagine your attorney is doing exactly that. The crux of the matter is use in commerce, and if you were the first to use it in commerce, they should not be able to successfully register the mark. However, there is a question of abandonment since the island owner decided to delete the island in his haste instead of fighting the bogus application. And of course, there are always facts that we don't know about. _____________________
Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims!
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Anastasia Serenity
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jan 2009
Posts: 53
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03-10-2009 13:46
We had ignored her for months just because her sim did not even exist until January 2009 and Linden Lab itself has the records of when it was paid to create OWK Village over a year ago. Linden Lab has even gone so far to assist 'shayna' by freezing all of our group charter statements after removing a link to this forum from them. Linden Lab re-wrote our charter descriptions and froze them so we cannot edit them in any way. Of course now all of the group-owned items in the sim no longer respond to group members because of the name changes. We had to abandon all parcels on the island, create new groups and re-deed them all. Then buy all the group items back from the dead groups, deed them to the new groups and offer the new group to all the members. I don't suspect this forum thread will last very much longer here. Morgen Maculate let me just ignore your whole thread |
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Morgen Maculate
Devil's Bride
Join date: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 54
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03-10-2009 13:58
Federal trademark applications can be challenged, and I imagine your attorney is doing exactly that. The crux of the matter is use in commerce, and if you were the first to use it in commerce, they should not be able to successfully register the mark. However, there is a question of abandonment since the island owner decided to delete the island in his haste instead of fighting the bogus application. We never concerned ourselves about Shayna asking Linden Lab to re-name one of her old Islands OWK in January of this year. We were just going to continue on as OWK Village as we have for a year. 'Shayna' is more determined than a Texas Cheerleader. But I think in her desperation to obliterate any perceived competition she may have gone too far. A judge will need to explain to her the difference between fantasy and reality. |
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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03-10-2009 14:07
FWIW, there's an article over at www.secondlifeherald.com that lays out a different version of the story of OWK's history in SL. As in many threads on this forum, I suspect that the truth may lie somewhere between the here and there.
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