Thoughts on Permissions

Hi guys,

I would really like your thoughts on the permissions in SL, and how you decide on what to get depending on the permissions available.

For example, what items do you think really need the copy permission? I am guessing that clothing, hair, and other attachments should be copy, as people like to create outfit folders and place the copies in those folders so they can just drag the folder onto themselves to do a quick change.

Are there any other essential uses for the copy permission?


The mod permission seems to be essential for wearable items too, as you may need to resize your hair, or clothes, to fit perfectly.

What other items really need a mod permission?


The transfer permission is good for freebies, and the non-transfer is needed to offset the copy permission.

What other class of goods really need the transfer permission?


Is it the case that creators mainly think about what permissions they DON'T want people to have with their products, then give them what is left?

I have also noticed that some goods on XStreetSL are advertised as full perms, but when you have bought it and rezzed it you find that only the prims are full-perm, and the objects in the Contents tab have restricted perms (so you cannot set out several copies of a sofa in your palace, or mod the way they are used, as althought it is described as full-perm, the sitting anims are no-copy, and the scripts are no-mod.

Do you feel a little conned by this Full-Perm description?

Thanks

Rock

/me would probably contact the creator on that one and possible AR them for fraud.

The exception to this is scripts - there are very few cases where scripts need to be mod. Notecards I feel sorta similar about, too.

Copy: Anything that has mod perm, for when it's been modified beyond repair. Prefabs, for example.

Mod: Anything containing scripts, else the scripts can't be reset. HUDs, for example.

Transfer: In theory, one could imagine scripted functionality that requires sequential ownership. Probably that would be some sort of attachment (thus entailing ownership). Grasping for an example here, but maybe something crypto-related: say I have a Super Sekrit Decoder Ring that I populate with a secret known only to me and all my Rings. I make it no-mod and hand it off to somebody who's supposed to use it to communicate with me on a cryptographically secure channel. For that to work, I would need transfer and mod perms on it (and I'd presumably make it no-transfer and no-mod for the recipient). (Okay, that's a sucky example; maybe somebody else can think of a better one.)

This!! QFT..

Vehicles. Clothes may be copy or transfer, some people prefer to give clothes as gifts, others prefer to be able to better organize their outfits.

Everything. There's rarely a good reason for witholding the mod permission.

Freebies are rarely transferable.

Yes, I would demand my money back.

Not the actual script itself, though. If you make that mod, people get to see the source...

I sell copy/mod and use a hippo vendor with a buy as gift option for those wanting to gift someone.

I think for prefabs, copy/mod is essential. Same for prim clothing and hair. I never buy if they are no mod and/or no copy.

For my line of work it would be just about all things related to a wedding/reception setup. Both mod and copy are features that are essential to me and I would definitely buy from a vendor that offers them in their product. Having the product transferable would definitely be a plus as well. My husband (the builder) does a lot mod work on things. It is so much easier for me to purchase said item (if they dont offer gift purchases) and transfer it to him with instructions on what needs to be done. Because of the differences in our time zones, having trans capability allows us to effectively utilize our time. Generally, the modification that he does are complete by the time I log in.

I certainly understand why no trans and mod w/trans are offered and respect it. But for my world, having all copy/mod/trans works best for me. But I know that ain't gonna happen.

For clothing, my preference is Transferable, rather than Copy. I seldom have to modify my prim skirts much and if I do, I will usually just trash them or give them away. Also, I am pretty deficient in the area of creating outfits from individual items, so I buy full outfits and therefore do not need the Copy permission just to create outfits.

I do want Copy on hair as I sometimes mod that a lot or copy special ones into full outfit folders. Ditto for furniture and wall decorations - due to the sizing issue. And I want Copy on houses so I can restore the original if I end up screwing up a modification too bad to easily fix. I want Copy on all Animations -- and yes I will pay a bit more for it.

I want Mod on pretty much any prim for resizing purposes, as mentioned above -- and I DO NOT mean Mod via one of those damn resize scripts. I want Mod on Glitch pants cuz I often do not like them the length the creator put them at.


Something I have noticed many creators doing on full skirt outfits, for whatever stupid reason -- make the prim skirts Mod/Copy and the system layers No Copy. In effect making the outfit not fully copyable, but also not transferable. The part of this that really pisses me off is when I get a skirt outfit that comes with multiple skirt sizes, but only one copy of the top and it is No Copy. While I do not create my own outfits from individual pieces, I do still like to have each folder represent only one outfit so I can easily right-click and select "add to outfit". If there are multiple skirts in the folder, there is no telling which one you'll end up having on.

I am going to start with the assumption that most content creators are trying to make money and do not want to do what I do: create something, set it full perm, and toss it out there for the grid to play with.

Generally I prefer to have copy perms. Usually for outfit folders (which includes everything from huds and attachments to clothing). It can also be for simple things you want to replicate (like a 1-prim rock). I can see a designer wanting to have no-copy of things they want you to buy for each one you rez: like that 500 prim treehouse.

Transfer perms are pretty much the mirror image of copy perms and are extremely useful when buying a gift or when you somehow wound up with 2 of something (which is no-copy). The ideal automated vendor would, unless the seller did not want to allow copyable versions, give the buyer a choice between copy/mod and transfer/mod.

There is a bug in SL where perms in the inventory do not match perms when the item is rezzed. Which is why content creators always have a spare account to test perms with.

Another case where you might *not* want do allow mod is freebies: I think if you set no-mod, you can put "freebie! not for resale!" or some such in the description and people won't be able to change/remove it.

Also, http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-581

I agree with Lil not that darn resizing script.
Glitch pants mod please.

Houses mod/copy
Clothing would be nice for Transfer some things like pants would love mod/transfer. I just got rid of quite a few items that didnt wear and werent transferable.

If I buy clothes would like to give the gift personally instead of the vendors that just send it to the person. Sometimes I shop early.

Textures m/c/t

Scripts I am still on the fence about.

Animations love to have m/c/t

You know, I never understood why the reset feature was tied to the mod perm. I don't have to be able to READ/EDIT the script to have it bollux.. so I shouldn't have to have be able to do so to reset them.

Is it possible to LL to do this or is there some technical thingamabob that I'm not getting about scripts that prevents it?

As a content creator trying to find an audience on XStreet* I need to have some low-priced items, because many people buy only if they see ratings, and only a fraction of purchasers bother to rate items. Thus, a volume of purchasers is needed in order to got enough ratings to attract more purchasers.

For this reason, pricing of my item is a factor in deciding on permissions.

All structures: copy/mod, even if at a promotional (low) price...simply because buyers won't buy without those perms.

But, with other items: If I've set a low price (in order to try to build the number of my items that have ratings), I'm far less likely to make the item Transfer, because it would be too easy for people to buy up my low-priced item and sell it for more. (And of course NEVER both Modify and Transfer for low-priced items. If they resell, I want my name on the item!)

So for low-priced items, I'm far more likely to make them Copy/Mod or even just Copy, if I've included variations in the package (e.g. both Phantom and non-Phantom for trees; different sizes; etc.).






*with the coming changes, I may be trying to find an audience on some other site, but the same principles would apply

ALL goods need a transfer permission. If I buy an item it's MINE to give away just as in RL.
I can understand the issue of resellers. This is where LL should offer a perm for "no resale"

All prim clothes, hair, etc need copy and mod for obvious reasons along with houses and perhaps plants.

Let the flames begin...

This is an excellent point.

I think they did it that way because there's cases where a script writer *could* want things so that the script never resets. Never, ever.

LL, having nowhere else to put a "customer can't reset the scripts" setting, stuffed it into the "customer can't mod the object" setting.

Anything that is not transferable should in general be Copy.
What's the problem? Is someone going to buy 40 sims and put your sofa in each of a copy of your prefab on a 1024 within each sim? How often will that happen? How many tier days will pass before that sort of idiot goes bust?
Is it really a problem if the occasional cash customer rezzes two copies?

All attachments, including huds, should be Copy. How the hell can you accessorise in outfits if the accessories are spread over a number of folders?

Prim clothing should be Mod as well as Copy. No way am I changing my shape to fit the clothes. Nobody makes clothes that good dammit!

Resizer scripts as an alternative to Mod are da ebil.
Such scripts are less ebil if they have an option to delete themselves - and the item should be Copy anyway.

Anything with a script should allow the scripts to be reset.

Vehicles should be copy. Avatar crashes, sim-crossings, ban lines, parcel full, etc. It's hell for vehicles out there.
On a separate not, all vehicles should also phone home if unattended for 30 minutes or so. I've been IMed by people to pretty please come and get a flying machine that ended up 3 or 4 sims away from where I crashed.

Do you have to have Mod on the actual scripts to Reset them or just mod on the item the scripts on in?

Ack!! Only if they also include a "set home location" feature and don't phone home if they're within, say, 100m of that spot.

Just the item. Putting mod on the script itself means you can view the script source code and mess with it (and copy it and call it (aka: sell it as) your own).

edit: though see Qie's post below.. I may be full of it. Again. :\

Attention ALL jewelry creators. Jewelry should ALWAYS be transfer. Since it is usually no-copy, that shouldn't really be a problem, but for some reason, it is. If, for some reason, you want to make your "usually bought as a gift" item no-transfer, PLEASE have a "Buy as a gift" option in your store. I have seen a LOT of jewelry stores that have no-transfer items, and no way to buy them as a gift. Guess what? Buh-bye.

Well, it's pretty brain-damaged, but I don't think it works quite like that. If a script is Mod/No-Transfer, you can open it, which means that you can transfer the code to your own script and transfer that, permissions on the original script notwithstanding. If, however, a script is Mod/No-Copy, trying to open it will produce "You are not allowed to view this script" (at least in my testing).

I have no idea why it's designed to work that way, assuming it's not just an implementation artifact.

One could imagine a different semantics in which opening a script is like downloading a texture: you must have full permissions, or it's just not allowed. It's not clear to me how this would have been a problem had stuff started out that way, and it would allow Modify permission on the script to determine stuff like renaming it and manually setting it running or resetting it. At this point, however, there's probably some obscure content that depends on the current semantics.

Er.. That sounds correct. My bad..

So, what's m/t/no-c get you? Just the ability to change the script name?

edit: and I still argue against notes and scripts ever being full perm. If you do that, anybody can change it to whatever they want and pass it out to others with you still listed as the creator.